Boston Hospital Denies Heart Transplant....

[hurley1980]

....to patient that refuses to get the covid vaccine. Can't say I blame them!

www.huffpost.com/entry/boston-hospital-denies-heart-transplant-unvaccinated-patient_n_61f1e072e4b02de5f5141151

BOSTON (AP) — A Boston hospital is defending itself after a man’s family claimed he was denied a new heart for refusing to be vaccinated against COVID-19, saying most transplant programs around the country set similar requirements to improve patients’ chances of survival.

What I can't believe is that this guy is so worried about covid vaccine side effects, he'd rather die, and leave his 2 children without a father!

Talk about a hill to die on (literally)!

[swamp]

Choices have consequences

I’m not moved by his plight.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

That heart deserves to be reserved for someone that actually cares about their body.

[pulmonarymd]

Many people die waiting for a suitable organ. If he doesn’t want to do what is required to get one, give it to the next recipient, I am sure they will be happy. The goal is utilitarian; the most bang for the buck. Being unvaccinated increases the risk of transplant/failure or death.

What these idiots fall to accept is that there is no right to get an organ transplant. People are denied for all kinds of reasons. They just like that it is them suffering the consequences

[hurley1980]

Jan 27, 2022 14:57:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Many people die waiting for a suitable organ. If he doesn’t want to do what is required to get one, give it to the next recipient, I am sure they will be happy. The goal is utilitarian; the most bang for the buck. Being unvaccinated increases the risk of transplant/failure or death.

What these idiots fall to accept is that there is no right to get an organ transplant. People are denied for all kinds of reasons. They just like that it is them suffering the consequences

This is basically the same as someone who needs a transplant but refuses to give up drugs/drinking/smoking, right?  I mean, if they are going to destroy the new organ they are given, why even give it to them!

I'm just appalled that the family is acting like this is such a wronging to them.  I guess I shouldn't be anymore.  Anti vaxxers are some of the most entitled people I have ever seen in my 40 years of living!

[pulmonarymd]

Jan 27, 2022 15:14:18 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Jan 27, 2022 14:57:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Many people die waiting for a suitable organ. If he doesn’t want to do what is required to get one, give it to the next recipient, I am sure they will be happy. The goal is utilitarian; the most bang for the buck. Being unvaccinated increases the risk of transplant/failure or death.

What these idiots fall to accept is that there is no right to get an organ transplant. People are denied for all kinds of reasons. They just like that it is them suffering the consequences

This is basically the same as someone who needs a transplant but refuses to give up drugs/drinking/smoking, right?  I mean, if they are going to destroy the new organ they are given, why even give it to them!

I'm just appalled that the family is acting like this is such a wronging to them.  I guess I shouldn't be anymore.  Anti vaxxers are some of the most entitled people I have ever seen in my 40 years of living!

You can be denied;

A lung or heart transplant if you smoke
A liver transplant if you drink alcohol
Any transplant if you use illicit drugs
If you are non-compliant with care or follow up
If you have psychiatric illness
If you do not have sufficient support
If you have an underlying illness that the rejection medications can exacerbate
And myriad other reasons.

They are just special snowflakes. They want to be insulated from the consequences of their behavior. It doesn't work that way.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 27, 2022 14:57:35 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Many people die waiting for a suitable organ. If he doesn’t want to do what is required to get one, give it to the next recipient, I am sure they will be happy. The goal is utilitarian; the most bang for the buck. Being unvaccinated increases the risk of transplant/failure or death.

What these idiots fall to accept is that there is no right to get an organ transplant. People are denied for all kinds of reasons. They just like that it is them suffering the consequences

precisely right.
my mom was denied an implant which would have improved her quality of life.
she was 88 and in poor health.
the RISKS of having the implant exceeded the utility of getting it.
MIL had cancer in her neck.  same deal there.

so, yeah.  risks are weighed by "death panels".  if you don't like it, go to some
third world shithole where ethics don't count.  only money.

[tallguy]

No way in hell that person should get a transplant.  What hospitals and insurance companies should do is deny ALL COVID-related care to unvaccinated persons.  How many thousands of people are not able to get their own care (such as surgeries) done because the unvaccinated are taking up so many beds and using up so many resources?  If they want to be ruled by their belief in stupid sh**, fine, but they should have the integrity to own that choice and not harm others with their bullsh**.  This is a free country, but if getting a vaccine is your "hill to die on" you have to understand that actually dying may be part of that.  If that risk is unacceptable, then make a different choice.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 29, 2022 14:32:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No way in hell that person should get a transplant.  What hospitals and insurance companies should do is deny ALL COVID-related care to unvaccinated persons.  How many thousands of people are not able to get their own care (such as surgeries) done because the unvaccinated are taking up so many beds and using up so many resources?  If they want to be ruled by their belief in stupid sh**, fine, but they should have the integrity to own that choice and not harm others with their bullsh**.  This is a free country, but if getting a vaccine is your "hill to die on" you have to understand that actually dying may be part of that.  If that risk is unacceptable, then make a different choice.

that makes sense.
the christian scientists (i think) don't do Western Medicine.
they are not clogging up our hospitals.
i think their choice is DUMB, but it is theirs to make.
when their DUMB choice impacts me, then i have beef.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I feel just fine about the denial of the transplant. 

[tcu2003]

A coworker had a heart transplant last October (he’s 37, and they discovered he had a genetic heart issue in fall 2020, and got a transplant about a year later). He just came back to work a couple of weeks ago, and was telling me that he’s in some FB groups for transplant recipients, and he’s floored by some of the people there who have refused the vaccine. Like…you trust your doctors to replace organs in your body, but not on their vaccine advice?!! Makes no sense. And yep, he had to have the Covid vaccine to be on the transplant list.

[swamp]

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/31/chad-carswell-kidney-coronavirus-vaccine/

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Have at it dude.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 31, 2022 11:49:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/31/chad-carswell-kidney-coronavirus-vaccine/

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Have at it dude.

hopefully he has no children.

[tallguy]

Jan 31, 2022 11:52:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 31, 2022 11:49:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/31/chad-carswell-kidney-coronavirus-vaccine/

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Have at it dude.

hopefully he has no children.

Yes, I always think it best when stupid people do not procreate....

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Various vaccinations were required when I had my cochlear implant surgery 8 years ago. They are required for the health of the recipient and for success of the surgery. It is certainly not a life saving surgery, so why should a life saving organ transplant surgery be any different?    

[Opti]

Jan 31, 2022 11:52:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 31, 2022 11:49:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/31/chad-carswell-kidney-coronavirus-vaccine/

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Have at it dude.

hopefully he has no children.

I'd be surprised if he does. Swamp posted the article I believe I read earlier. He has diabetes, he's a double amputee (legs), long history of health issues and I think under 40.

[Opti]

Jan 27, 2022 15:19:23 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jan 27, 2022 15:14:18 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

This is basically the same as someone who needs a transplant but refuses to give up drugs/drinking/smoking, right?  I mean, if they are going to destroy the new organ they are given, why even give it to them!

I'm just appalled that the family is acting like this is such a wronging to them.  I guess I shouldn't be anymore.  Anti vaxxers are some of the most entitled people I have ever seen in my 40 years of living!

You can be denied;

A lung or heart transplant if you smoke
A liver transplant if you drink alcohol
Any transplant if you use illicit drugs
If you are non-compliant with care or follow up
If you have psychiatric illness
If you do not have sufficient support
If you have an underlying illness that the rejection medications can exacerbate
And myriad other reasons.

They are just special snowflakes. They want to be insulated from the consequences of their behavior. It doesn't work that way.

Can you elaborate on that? I understand if the person was actively trying to hurt someone and had a history thereof, but what about people with anxiety, depression etc. that's not severe?

[pulmonarymd]

Jan 31, 2022 19:29:05 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 27, 2022 15:19:23 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You can be denied;

A lung or heart transplant if you smoke
A liver transplant if you drink alcohol
Any transplant if you use illicit drugs
If you are non-compliant with care or follow up
If you have psychiatric illness
If you do not have sufficient support
If you have an underlying illness that the rejection medications can exacerbate
And myriad other reasons.

They are just special snowflakes. They want to be insulated from the consequences of their behavior. It doesn't work that way.

Can you elaborate on that? I understand if the person was actively trying to hurt someone and had a history thereof, but what about people with anxiety, depression etc. that's not severe?

A psychiatric evaluation is required as part of a transplant evaluation. Uncontrolled psychiatric illness disqualifies you. If your disease is controlled, you may not be disqualified. In addition, if your illness impacts your ability to take your rejection medications or ability to follow the treatment plan, this will disqualify you as well.

The ability to comply with the treatment plan is important, and is not only applied to those who have psychiatric illness. The patient in Maryland who received the pig heart did so because he was not on the transplant list because he had not followed up with his treatment plan previously. The goal is to maximize the survival of the transplant recipient and use of the organ

[Tiny]

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Sounds like people are finding a socially and morally acceptable way to choose to die.   They can side step all the "pressure" to do everything possible to keep on living  AND  still die an "honorable" death - because they refused to do something they just couldn't do - even if it meant their own death.  They didn't "give up the fight" - they lost the battle after fighting valiantly - and NOT compromising their moral integrity (by getting a vaccine they didn't want).  

I'm guessing the guy got pressured to get his name on the transplant list - but he really deep down inside doesn't want to go on living - maybe he thinks it will be better for his wife/kids if he dies.   

I'm guessing his death might be a "good thing" for his wife and kids.... 

I'm guessing it's a win-win  

[empress of self-improvement]

Jan 31, 2022 11:49:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/31/chad-carswell-kidney-coronavirus-vaccine/

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Have at it dude.

More like he was born stupid and he'll die stupid. Because you can't fix stupid.

[hurley1980]

Feb 1, 2022 11:35:37 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Guy declines to get vaccinated even though he needs a kidney. “ I was born free, I’ll die free”.

Sounds like people are finding a socially and morally acceptable way to choose to die.   They can side step all the "pressure" to do everything possible to keep on living  AND  still die an "honorable" death - because they refused to do something they just couldn't do - even if it meant their own death.  They didn't "give up the fight" - they lost the battle after fighting valiantly - and NOT compromising their moral integrity (by getting a vaccine they didn't want).  

I'm guessing the guy got pressured to get his name on the transplant list - but he really deep down inside doesn't want to go on living - maybe he thinks it will be better for his wife/kids if he dies.   

I'm guessing his death might be a "good thing" for his wife and kids.... 

I'm guessing it's a win-win  

Ya, from what I have read the guy has way more health problems than just needing a transplant.  As mentioned above, he has diabetes and both his legs have been amputated.  I also read somewhere that he has had more than one heart attack, and has already had covid. He's only 38.  He's also on dialysis 3 times a week.  

Maybe there's a nice insurance payout for his family if he dies.  It might be easier for his family for him to pass, than to keep having to deal with all the medical issues that are going to plague him for the rest of his life. 

That is sad!

[moon/Laura]

Jan 31, 2022 19:23:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 31, 2022 11:52:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

hopefully he has no children.

I'd be surprised if he does. Swamp posted the article I believe I read earlier. He has diabetes, he's a double amputee (legs), long history of health issues and I think under 40.

So all that makes him unloveable? Unable to have kids? That's shallow.

[Opti]

Feb 1, 2022 17:56:42 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Jan 31, 2022 19:23:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'd be surprised if he does. Swamp posted the article I believe I read earlier. He has diabetes, he's a double amputee (legs), long history of health issues and I think under 40.

So all that makes him unloveable? Unable to have kids? That's shallow.

Moon, read the article. I think DJ is concerned about kids left behind. I have scheduled medical appts for double amputee's etc. Some are good, wonderful people. Some are jerks. Like anyone. He reads like a J* in the article.

[moon/Laura]

Feb 1, 2022 18:46:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

Feb 1, 2022 17:56:42 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

So all that makes him unloveable? Unable to have kids? That's shallow.

Moon, read the article. I think DJ is concerned about kids left behind. I have scheduled medical appts for double amputee's etc. Some are good, wonderful people. Some are jerks. Like anyone. He reads like a J* in the article.

You said you'd be surprised if he does (have kids), as if all that stuff made him unworthy. I don't have to read the article to feel a kind of way about what you said.

He may indeed be a jerk, but lots of jerks have kids.

[swamp]

Feb 1, 2022 17:56:42 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Jan 31, 2022 19:23:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'd be surprised if he does. Swamp posted the article I believe I read earlier. He has diabetes, he's a double amputee (legs), long history of health issues and I think under 40.

So all that makes him unloveable? Unable to have kids? That's shallow.

His health issues don’t make him unlovable. His idiocy dies, though.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 1, 2022 18:46:50 GMT -5 Opti said:

Feb 1, 2022 17:56:42 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

So all that makes him unloveable? Unable to have kids? That's shallow.

Moon, read the article. I think DJ is concerned about kids left behind. I have scheduled medical appts for double amputee's etc. Some are good, wonderful people. Some are jerks. Like anyone. He reads like a J* in the article.

actually, i meant it two ways.
one is the one Opti said.
the other is that i worry about this kind of stupidity being generational.

[haapai]

Feb 1, 2022 17:32:05 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Feb 1, 2022 11:35:37 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sounds like people are finding a socially and morally acceptable way to choose to die.   They can side step all the "pressure" to do everything possible to keep on living  AND  still die an "honorable" death - because they refused to do something they just couldn't do - even if it meant their own death.  They didn't "give up the fight" - they lost the battle after fighting valiantly - and NOT compromising their moral integrity (by getting a vaccine they didn't want).  

I'm guessing the guy got pressured to get his name on the transplant list - but he really deep down inside doesn't want to go on living - maybe he thinks it will be better for his wife/kids if he dies.   

I'm guessing his death might be a "good thing" for his wife and kids.... 

I'm guessing it's a win-win  

Ya, from what I have read the guy has way more health problems than just needing a transplant.  As mentioned above, he has diabetes and both his legs have been amputated.  I also read somewhere that he has had more than one heart attack, and has already had covid. He's only 38.  He's also on dialysis 3 times a week.  

Maybe there's a nice insurance payout for his family if he dies.  It might be easier for his family for him to pass, than to keep having to deal with all the medical issues that are going to plague him for the rest of his life. 

That is sad!

I can't nail down the reasons why you are asserting that this guy is a double-amputee, has had a heart attack and Covid, and is on dialysis.  But if that is true, I can definitely start thinking of this as less of a case of choosing a hill to die on and more of a case of choosing to die.  We've all heard of suicide by cop.  This might be something similar. 

I don't know if there is any type of insurance payout to consider.  I don't think this guy has had employer-funded life insurance for a long time or been in any position to keep paying premiums on his own or have his spouse maintain life insurance coverage for him.  It is far moe likely that he is choosing to die in order to relieve his family from the burden of caring for him and the terrifying restrictions that come with being married to someone on permanent disability. 

If he dies, his children will qualify for survivor benefits and the combination of those benefits and the relief from income-sapping and income-limiting restrictions may be life-changing for his spouse and children. 

This is definitely sad., but probably not as much about ignorance as we previously thought.  

This guy might be just as dumb as the character in the Arthur Miller play, The Crucible demanding "more weight".  He may not be sophisticated, but he knows the law and what he is up against and makes his choice. 

[tcu2003]

Feb 2, 2022 16:45:23 GMT -5 haapai said:

Feb 1, 2022 17:32:05 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Ya, from what I have read the guy has way more health problems than just needing a transplant.  As mentioned above, he has diabetes and both his legs have been amputated.  I also read somewhere that he has had more than one heart attack, and has already had covid. He's only 38.  He's also on dialysis 3 times a week.  

Maybe there's a nice insurance payout for his family if he dies.  It might be easier for his family for him to pass, than to keep having to deal with all the medical issues that are going to plague him for the rest of his life. 

That is sad!

I can't nail down the reasons why you are asserting that this guy is a double-amputee, has had a heart attack and Covid, and is on dialysis.  But if that is true, I can definitely start thinking of this as less of a case of choosing a hill to die on and more of a case of choosing to die.  We've all heard of suicide by cop.  This might be something similar. 

I don't know if there is any type of insurance payout to consider.  I don't think this guy has had employer-funded life insurance for a long time or been in any position to keep paying premiums on his own or have his spouse maintain life insurance coverage for him.  It is far moe likely that he is choosing to die in order to relieve his family from the burden of caring for him and the terrifying restrictions that come with being married to someone on permanent disability. 

If he dies, his children will qualify for survivor benefits and the combination of those benefits and the relief from income-sapping and income-limiting restrictions may be life-changing for his spouse and children. 

This is definitely sad., but probably not as much about ignorance as we previously thought.  

This guy might be just as dumb as the character in the Arthur Miller play, The Crucible demanding "more weight".  He may not be sophisticated, but he knows the law and what he is up against and makes his choice. 

The article linked above lists the health problems the guy has:

"Carswell told The Post he has had long history of health problems. After he was diagnosed with Type II diabetes, Carswell said he developed infections and other complications in his legs, both of which had to be amputated. He has had covid twice, he said — once in November 2020 and again this past September, which landed him in the hospital for a short time."

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/31/chad-carswell-kidney-coronavirus-vaccine/