The Verdict Is In On American Exceptionalism............

[djAdvocate]

we aren't.

comments?

[Lizard Queen]

I knew we weren't #1, but I had no idea we were so stupid, and gullible, and racist, and delusional, and simply so easily taken. And especially, I hadn't realized we were so weak that a few well placed conspirators could nearly take us down to our knees. Why do we bother spending so many $billions on fighter jets?

[dondub]

We are as human as any other country.

[deminmaine]

Of course not.  There is no such thing as ANY national exceptionalism, and I have always disliked that term.

It was always a myth, but we have several things going for us that makes the US exceptional and a place of great opportunity:

-Boundless lands and resources.  (yes, we had to move a few pesky natives)
-A government system that allows for dynamic business growth.
-Open immigration policies that bring in the hardest striving people from around the world.
-A "can do" culture that encourages building business and ceasing opportunities.

We can argue that some are less true today that in years past, and of course the government system is far from perfect, lol.  But the combination of those factors have made the USA the pre-eminent country in the world, imo.  Please bear in mind that by pre-eminent I do NOT mean "best", another difficult superlative.

[djAdvocate]

I was thinking that one of the things that made us different was that we didn't have a bunch of deluded, hyperventilating neo fascist zombies that were constantly trying to turn us into a Banana Republic.

clearly I was wrong about that.

[billisonboard]

I think the frontier served as a pressure valve for potential "deluded, hyperventilating neo fascist zombies". Where would the Americans at the Alamo have been if they couldn't have been attempting to steal Texas from Mexico? 

[djAdvocate]

(hangs head in shame)

[thyme4change]

Jan 12, 2021 6:35:58 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course not.  There is no such thing as ANY national exceptionalism, and I have always disliked that term.

It was always a myth, but we have several things going for us that makes the US exceptional and a place of great opportunity:

-Boundless lands and resources.  (yes, we had to move a few pesky natives)
-A government system that allows for dynamic business growth.
-Open immigration policies that bring in the hardest striving people from around the world.
-A "can do" culture that encourages building business and ceasing opportunities.

We can argue that some are less true today that in years past, and of course the government system is far from perfect, lol.  But the combination of those factors have made the USA the pre-eminent country in the world, imo.  Please bear in mind that by pre-eminent I do NOT mean "best", another difficult superlative.

Not sure how you define "open immigration " as our system is pretty tough to get through. In the 10 countries that take in immigrants, we do take in the most in raw numbers, but compared to Sweden and Germany - we aren't even close to the percentage. Of those top 10, we are 10th in number of immigrants per thousand.

We talk about being a nation of immigrants, but that is also just folklore. In the modern world many, many countries have immigrants.

[laterbloomer]

You are following the path of all the dynasties throughout history. just a lot faster. It used to take hundreds. if not thousands, of years to get to the fall of the empire stage.

[deminmaine]

Jan 12, 2021 16:56:07 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jan 12, 2021 6:35:58 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Of course not.  There is no such thing as ANY national exceptionalism, and I have always disliked that term.

It was always a myth, but we have several things going for us that makes the US exceptional and a place of great opportunity:

-Boundless lands and resources.  (yes, we had to move a few pesky natives)
-A government system that allows for dynamic business growth.
-Open immigration policies that bring in the hardest striving people from around the world.
-A "can do" culture that encourages building business and ceasing opportunities.

We can argue that some are less true today that in years past, and of course the government system is far from perfect, lol.  But the combination of those factors have made the USA the pre-eminent country in the world, imo.  Please bear in mind that by pre-eminent I do NOT mean "best", another difficult superlative.

Not sure how you define "open immigration " as our system is pretty tough to get through. In the 10 countries that take in immigrants, we do take in the most in raw numbers, but compared to Sweden and Germany - we aren't even close to the percentage. Of those top 10, we are 10th in number of immigrants per thousand.

We talk about being a nation of immigrants, but that is also just folklore. In the modern world many, many countries have immigrants.

Yes, I am blending past and present a bit, but even our current policies are still bringing in a lot of new people.  In the sweep of our nations rise immigrants have been absolutely key to even populating the country sufficiently to grow it.  So I guess we disagree, I absolutely see immigration as being one of the keys to our phenomenal rise over the last 200-300 years.  I also fully agree, we are not at the forefront of immigration numbers now at all.  And our rates have ebbbed and flowed over the years, pretty much as needed.

[thyme4change]

Jan 12, 2021 20:33:10 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 12, 2021 16:56:07 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Not sure how you define "open immigration " as our system is pretty tough to get through. In the 10 countries that take in immigrants, we do take in the most in raw numbers, but compared to Sweden and Germany - we aren't even close to the percentage. Of those top 10, we are 10th in number of immigrants per thousand.

We talk about being a nation of immigrants, but that is also just folklore. In the modern world many, many countries have immigrants.

Yes, I am blending past and present a bit, but even our current policies are still bringing in a lot of new people.  In the sweep of our nations rise immigrants have been absolutely key to even populating the country sufficiently to grow it.  So I guess we disagree, I absolutely see immigration as being one of the keys to our phenomenal rise over the last 200-300 years.  I also fully agree, we are not at the forefront of immigration numbers now at all.  And our rates have ebbbed and flowed over the years, pretty much as needed.

I don't disagree that it has been key to our country. I disagree that it makes us unique. Many countries incorporate immigrants for success.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 12, 2021 19:05:32 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

You are following the path of all the dynasties throughout history. just a lot faster. It used to take hundreds. if not thousands, of years to get to the fall of the empire stage.

yep. evertin moves lil quickr thez days.

[Lizard Queen]

[djAdvocate]

been saying this for years/\.

if we could put down our pride for a second, we could admit that there are countries out there that do things better than us, and LEARN FROM THEM.

there is nothing to stop us from having the best healthcare system on the planet. we have the knowhow, the money, and the infrastructure to build it. there is nothing to stop us from having the lowest infant mortality. that, in combination with auto and gun violence, makes the US the most dangerous place in the developed world to raise a child. where is the party of family values on that? advocating for guns in schools and doubling down on our child unfriendly healthcare system, of course.

there is so much we could do better. and instead, we have a mountain of frothing MAGAts storming the capitol, and a chorus of "representatives" backing them up in their insurrection, and telling us to "move on".

move on to what, exactly? more shitty, overpriced healthcare, education, wages, housing, and food? no. fuck that. it either ends here, or America- the America that people used to think of in glowing terms, is over.

[dondub]

Jan 13, 2021 15:58:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

been saying this for years/\.

if we could put down our pride for a second, we could admit that there are countries out there that do things better than us, and LEARN FROM THEM.

there is nothing to stop us from having the best healthcare system on the planet. we have the knowhow, the money, and the infrastructure to build it. there is nothing to stop us from having the lowest infant mortality. that, in combination with auto and gun violence, makes the US the most dangerous place in the developed world to raise a child. where is the party of family values on that? advocating for guns in schools and doubling down on our child unfriendly healthcare system, of course.

there is so much we could do better. and instead, we have a mountain of frothing MAGAts storming the capitol, and a chorus of "representatives" backing them up in their insurrection, and telling us to "move on".

move on to what, exactly? more shitty, overpriced healthcare, education, wages, housing, and food? no. fuck that. it either ends here, or America- the America that people used to think of in glowing terms, is over.

Amen, brother.👍🏻