How Much Would You Pay for Trees?

[violagirl]

We recently built a house in one of the nicer parts of the city. We are not used to living so close to other people, so we looked for a long time to find the right piece of land. 

We found a fairly large piece of land in a very nice subdivision. In addition to being larger than normal, in the rear of the property is a large swathe of forest running parallel to our street. The forest is probably about 100 feet deep and the strip backs on the properties on this side of the street. On the other side of the trees is a powerline with easement and then some new development of semis and rowhouses etc.

While when we built here we thought potentially there might be development behind us, we knew the powerline easement would be a problem for developers because there did not seem to be enough room to put a road in and houses on this side of the easement. 

This summer one of our neighbours saw a surveyor in basically his backyard. Went out to talk to him. Turns out a developer had been forced to buy the entire strip of trees. He had to buy the whole allotment because as part of his development plan, the city made him put a road through on one end. So he then tells the neighbour because the strip of trees is so narrow, the plan is to put a road down the middle and put rows of townhouses all the way up the street. In order to do this they would have to cut down every single tree right to the property line. 

To compare the density of each neighbourhood - there would be about 2.5 houses behind each of the houses on our street. With no buffer between the properties. 

Our neighbours, most of whom have spent thousands of dollars on backyard pools etc are not happy about losing their privacy and having what likely will be rental properties in the backyard. I don't have a pool but I do enjoy the peace and quiet and feeding birds in my backyard so we were pretty bummed too.

So neighbours proposed we all buy the land. It was a bit of a long shot - how do you get 12 different families to spend money on land they never intended to purchase? We figured well...might as well try. We know how much the developer paid for the land so at least we had a starting point. Two of the families declined to participate right from the beginning. 

Then the developer named his price. The general consensus of the neighbourhood meeting was it was way too high. More than $60,000 per house on our street. But he would only sell the land as one piece so either we buy it all or none. 

We immediately knew we would have to be out of the deal because there is no way we could afford to throw an extra 60k just to keep the trees. Turns out though that 9 of our neighbours are willing to go ahead. They obviously have a lot more money than we do. 

There is one neighbour after us, and we are at the end of the street. We don't want to be bad neighbours but we just literally do not have that much money sitting around. Since our house is brand new, we also don't have any equity to borrow against. And in contemplating the value of our house - I do not think we would be able to recoup the money if we ever sold. 

Our next door neighbour declined because they plan to move next year anyway. We had to decline because we obviously are the "poor" people on the street. But I also wanted to be a good neighbour realizing that if they buy it I would benefit anyway and that doesn't really seem fair. We offered to throw in a few grand just to be good neighbours. 

How much would you pay to keep the privacy behind your house? Houses on our street are some of the more expensive in the city - generally they are in the 600,000 + range. 

I hadn't heard anything in awhile and figured the idea fell through. But got an email  from the neighbourhood committee the other week saying that if we and our neighbour don't participate they are contemplating selling the trees on the land behind our houses and then selling the land to the city for a park. 

My husband was super offended by the implicit threat, but I can see where they are coming from - I mean what would they do with land not directly behind their house?

But hey not much we can do about it - I proposed we buy at least a buffer of trees behind our place, once again reiterating that we would love to have the resources to help out but literally 0 money for this. 

We were surprised to get an email back from the neighbours, who apparently felt bad for us, because they proposed we buy the land behind our place for 10k. 
That was an amount much more manageable. I'm also sure getting that much would be less hassle than clearing the land and trying to sell to the city. 

So although I would rather not spend 10k on trees, I'm very happy our neighbours were generous enough to even consider that price for us. 

There is still possibility sale won't go through but I'm happy my favorite maple won't be cut down. A very expensive maple. 

What would you do in a similar situation? My husband was a bit embarrassed to tell the neighbours we didn't have that much money but I'm aware we are not in the same income range as the doctors, investment bankers and lawyers who live on the street. I felt the best approach was to be honest about the reason we couldn't really help. We also felt like we should offer something just in the interest of being a good neighbour. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I'd certain try to buy the land!

How large of a piece it is that would be "yours" if you purchased?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

also - would your property value change if you had those townhomes behind you?

[oped]

How far between your house and the property line back there?

I’d be honest about your reason not to be able to afford the asking price.

I’d look into whether the plan for the townhouses is likely to be approved?

If you give 10k are you on the deed? How are your rights guaranteed? The property remains intact? I honestly don’t see them subdividing to sell just part of it? I’m not sure of your local ordinances though?

[jerseygirl]

Yes I would spend $10000 if you can manage
Think of it as increasing your property value!

[haapai]

My head is spinning.  You seem to have unusually well-organized neighbors and the developer who holds title to the land seems to be unusually willing to sell for a price that is affordable to many of those affected.  This is not what usually happens.  Usually, by the time that the surveyors show up, the price that the developer wants is well beyond what anyone, alone or working together, is willing to pay for trees, shade, or privacy.  Usually, there isn't even a price. 

[oped]

Which is why I wonder if there are issues with the actual development going through.

How is it zoned?

[pooks]

Dec 24, 2020 16:17:34 GMT -5 haapai said:

My head is spinning.  You seem to have unusually well-organized neighbors and the developer who holds title to the land seems to be unusually willing to sell for a price that is affordable to many of those affected.  This is not what usually happens.  Usually, by the time that the surveyors show up, the price that the developer wants is well beyond what anyone, alone or working together, is willing to pay for trees, shade, or privacy.  Usually, there isn't even a price. 

This has been my experience as well.  A neighborhood a mile from me ran into this situation and to buy the builder out was well over 1 million.  They wanted their cost of the land, plus all the costs they had incurred up to the point the neighborhood got involved.  It was pricey but they did it.

I have contributed to a similar campaign to save some land adjacent to my neighborhood, but it was caught early before a developer was involved, so less $$.  I would pay a lot to not have townhomes behind me.  

[violagirl]

Our current lot is about 50m long by 46m wide (167 x 150 feet). The land behind would be maybe 1.5x that length in addition. 

The developer never really wanted to buy the land, he just needed one piece of it to build a road. But only way they would sell it to him was to sell the whole thing. So to maximize the value of the land he was going to put the road through as required, and then as I understand he was going to basically prepare the land and sell it to another developer. When we met with him he was not very confident we would be able to pull it off but said yeah he would entertain the idea. Part of the land past us was not able to be developed so he donated it for parkland and part of it was used for the road, so developer will still make money on the deal without really having to do any more work. At the moment is is just one long undivided strip of land. We would be paying significantly more than he paid for the entire thing

Not many neighbourhoods would be able to pull together half a million dollars this quickly but people feel pretty strongly about it. The first step was to use all the connections they have to put pressure on the planning commission and townhall- failing that they went to plan B. Have to pool the money to buy it and then the land will be subdivided so each person will get the part behind their house. I have not been party to the details on the trust/corp or whatever will buy it but if our bit is accepted then we will get more details. 

While we anticipated development of the land at some point and left probably 30 feet at the back of our property beyond the fence for planting trees for privacy, many of the others with pools etc have built back to their property line. 

Some reasons people are willing to spend the money on it - it is zoned for anything from detached houses to high density apartment buildings. The demand for houses like ours in the city is not high, but there is a huge demand for apartments and townhouses/semi detached. People figured their property values would go down at least 30-50k in addition to the loss of privacy and lets face it - potential for riffraff. While the current development plan is for houses - it is entirely possible they could put in apartment buildings. 

Another reason - it is difficult to describe how quiet our neighbourhood is. If you go outside at night - it is completely silent except for the owls who live in the forest behind. So add in say 24 more homes in behind and things get a lot noisier and busier. Everyone knows each other and the kids often are out playing street hockey - I mean it's like..every soccer mom's dream? And yet we are 1km to golf course, gym, stores etc. It's fancy schmance. We don't exactly belong here but hey I'll drive my paid off Nissan and they can drive their Mercedes. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

TD bought the piece of property next door, that runs all the way to the perpendicular road to the one we live on.  Our road has not been punched through the remaining 500 or so feet.  I think that the piece of undeveloped, wooded land is a couple of acres....enough for another 8 houses.  What this has done is put our house at the end of a dead end road that has only 4 houses at this end.  

I think that he paid about $50k for the property about 20 years ago.  He has gotten offers of $250k, but has no interest in selling.    In this development, the only available land is owned by home owners in order to keep a buffer between them and neighbors.  The last house built on this road sold for $799k.

So yes....we have paid that much to avoid being built upon.

[Deleted]

violagirl, if you guys buy the buffer, what is the developer going to put on the other side of his road?

[violagirl]

Dec 24, 2020 19:21:22 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

violagirl , if you guys buy the buffer, what is the developer going to put on the other side of his road?

The road he has to build is perpendicular to our street. 

Beyond the tree zone there is a powerline with large easement which runs parallel to the trees. The plan by the city is basically to use that powerline easement as a walking trail. Then beyond the powerline is a water catchment basin. Then beyond that is a new development of semi detached and townhouses. 

I feel like if we can preserve the trees we will be able to preserve the basic nature of our neighbourhood. We live almost at the end of the street. Beyond our street is a wetland of sorts, so not really sure if that can be developed but never say never right? 

[Deleted]

We have a similar situation with what’s going on behind our house. When we bought our house, it was all government owned land behind us and we ASSumed it would stay that way and nothing would get built back there. Then somebody decided some of it would be a good spot for a storage facility. Our neighborhood association fought against it, but I think it’s been approved anyway. That’s not directly behind us, but still concerning. 

Then an out of state corporation bought a small piece of the land that does border our property lines and last week flags popped up in our back yard marking gas lines, and that made us wonder if something will be built behind us soon. DBF talked to one of the city engineers trying to find out, they advised him to contact the “land use” department or something like that.

Having said all that, if we could afford to buy the land to keep it from being built on, we would. And if we could do it for $10k, we absolutely would. But there are no neighbors for us to share the costs with, there are only 2 houses in our cove, and whatever gets built will affect us more than them, because our houses are far enough apart that it wouldn’t be directly behind them. The proposed storage facility would be closer to them.

I love sitting out on our deck, looking at the trees, and listening to the birds. I don’t want to see houses or buildings, or hear other people. I prefer being able to pretend I’m in the middle of nowhere when I choose to. I also don’t want anything that will reduce our property value, so I understand.

We’re considering planting trees on one side of our property to block the view of our backyard from the road. We’re getting a privacy fence, but that side slopes down and a fence won’t block the view. There’s a large field of grass between our property and the street, so the street isn’t close at all, but you can still see the back of our house and the backyard from there. So you’d like to save some trees, and we feel like we need to plant some.

[Tiny]

To compare the density of each neighbourhood - there would be about 2.5 houses behind each of the houses on our street. With no buffer between the properties.

Then the developer named his price. The general consensus of the neighbourhood meeting was it was way too high. More than $60,000 per house on our street. But he would only sell the land as one piece so either we buy it all or none.

A couple of things to consider:   How much will it cost you to put up and maintain a Privacy fence at the back of your yard.  If the houses built are 2 story - how will you feel about the sight lines (loss of privacy) until new trees are planted?   (I remember about 20 years ago when friends were "landscaping" their new property (a new subdivision with NO trees what so ever) - I think they were spending 250 to 500 per tree and they put in quite a few - evergreens, shade trees, and some flower trees.   I suspect they spent about 10K.  The trees were arranged around the property to provide privacy.)  

If you do purchase the property - how will that effect your property taxes?  I'm guessing the additional land will be an ongoing expense. 

My opinion is that the "trees" provide value to your (and your neighbor's houses).    When I have been house shopping - the views from the houses windows and the sight lines to other houses are important to me.  I want to sit in my yard and not see the neighbor sitting in their yard.   A house with a lot of privacy usually has some "prestige" or "wealthy person lives here" about it.   I would think the extra land gives an intangible "value" to your house.   That said.  I would be inclined to be for buying the property. 

I would want to know how the land will be alotted/deeded.   I'm not sure what the pros and cons of each house "owning" the land behind them - versus doing some other arrangement.  Perhaps a lawyer and the local government can help you all out?   It's green space.  
I would want to know who will 'tend' to the land - what if most of the trees die off?  or it becomes a teen party/hangout?  Or if there is an over abundance of critters (one or two years in a row)? 

If you can't afford 60K up front - is there some way to do a mortgage?  Or some sort of loan?  or some sort of something with your neighbors (again with the lawyer and the local government).  

I would buy the property.  

Is there some way to foist the land off on the local government?  As green space or something?   All the taxpayers can pay for it then.        Sorry.  That's what my densely populated suburb does... I'm generally OK with it - cause most of the land that that the city now owns is odds and ends of patches of ground - too small to build on (like a 10 foot wide strip of land next to a house).   Usually the home owner next to plot will tend it (mow it - upkeep it).   
I see that there is some "park"  possibility...  

[CCL]

I'm thinking you are in Canada. Are you talking Canadian dollars or US dollars?

[violagirl]

Dec 24, 2020 20:58:06 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

We have a similar situation with what’s going on behind our house. When we bought our house, it was all government owned land behind us and we ASSumed it would stay that way and nothing would get built back there. Then somebody decided some of it would be a good spot for a storage facility. Our neighborhood association fought against it, but I think it’s been approved anyway. That’s not directly behind us, but still concerning. 

We’re considering planting trees on one side of our property to block the view of our backyard from the road. We’re getting a privacy fence, but that side slopes down and a fence won’t block the view. There’s a large field of grass between our property and the street, so the street isn’t close at all, but you can still see the back of our house and the backyard from there. So you’d like to save some trees, and we feel like we need to plant some.

We went through the stages of grief for the trees and had finally landed on acceptance so we talked to a landscaper about planting trees and which ones would grow the fastest etc because although we have a 6 foot fence - that is kind of useless against a two story house so our plan was to probably plant some Norway Spruce behind our property as they can grow fairly quickly and pretty much live with it. 

Before we bought the land and even during the year I always check out the townhall meetings and following zoning amendments etc. I found a city plan with future plans for greenspace behind and with the powerline easement we were fairly confident nothing would be built there. I wish the city planning was more forthcoming about their development plans. It seems like the people who are affected by it only find out about it after the fact. Or after they are so far in that it is almost too late to turn back. 

On one hand there is a feeling of helplessness because we just don't have the means to fight all the tax dollars the city would get if the land was developed. We all wrote to the various city officials and the basic response was - well it's zoned for it so tough. But on the other just not having the money to do anything was almost a bit of a relief and helped us reach the "acceptance" stage. We were prepared to make the best of it. 

At least we are not like the poor lady in a local town who found out they want to build a slaughterhouse basically in her backyard!! 

[oped]

I think your title is misleading. And maybe your thinking a little. Also maybe I’m not understanding completely.

You are talking about buying trees, but what you are purchasing is land. Land zoned for use that is going to stay a usable lot with its own value, correct?

Your focus is on the barrier. But you can creat your own barrier. Trees don’t cost that much small... you might have to wait for them to grow in but could do it relatively inexpensively. If trees is what you want, you can have them.

But if what I understand about the land is correct, then I think maybe you need to consider buying it as land, not trees. You also need to consider what zoning might look like after subdivision and I think that needs to be a discussion before you all buy the big lot.

How are the back lots accessed after subdivision? Will you guys need to put in a road? If so how would it be paid for? How will subdivision be paired for? How much is it likely to cost? Am I understanding that your lot is on the end? If they sell your lot, how do they access theirs?

I think there are a lot more questions here and maybe a reframing of the problems and questions. What will you do with the land? Could you finance the land itself if need be?

[sesfw]

We’re considering planting trees on one side of our property to block the view of our backyard from the road.

That's what we did when we lived in Michigan.  Our home was built, and several years later the forested area behind us was clear-cut for a housing development.  Didn't know anything about it until the dozers showed up and started clearing.

The homes being built were two story monsters, so we bought and densely planted flowering and evergreen trees to keep our privacy.  We have since left that area so don't know what it is now.

[violagirl]

Well looks like I don't have to worry about buying the land after all. My immediate neighbour is buying the land behind me and the next person. 

He obviously has a lot more money than me. lol. 

At least there won't be townhouses behind us. My husband is a bit worried about what exactly his plans are for the land but anything he has planned is likely going to be much less intrusive than a housing development. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 25, 2020 12:30:22 GMT -5 violagirl said:

Well looks like I don't have to worry about buying the land after all. My immediate neighbour is buying the land behind me and the next person. 

He obviously has a lot more money than me. lol. 

At least there won't be townhouses behind us. My husband is a bit worried about what exactly his plans are for the land but anything he has planned is likely going to be much less intrusive than a housing development. 

That is an incredible Christmas present for you.  I know that the 4 neighbors at the end of this road would probably do likewise to avoid any further building here if the land wasn’t already bought.  I wouldn’t worry about what he’s planning on doing with it......it is worth it to him that no one builds back there.  

Our neighbor across the street (whose house would be impacted most, like ours) asked me one day if we were selling the property.  I told her ‘nope why do you ask?’.  Apparently a developer had been sniffing around looking for who owned it.  As the land ownership is a matter of public record, it would have been easy enough to find out through those tax records.  We got an offer on it, turned it down immediately.  Seems someone comes sniffing around every 3-4 years now.  

[Deleted]

Dec 25, 2020 12:30:22 GMT -5 violagirl said:

Well looks like I don't have to worry about buying the land after all. My immediate neighbour is buying the land behind me and the next person. 

He obviously has a lot more money than me. lol. 

At least there won't be townhouses behind us. My husband is a bit worried about what exactly his plans are for the land but anything he has planned is likely going to be much less intrusive than a housing development. 

I would think it’s like that he prefers for it to remain as it is, or close to it. He has a vested interest in keeping it that way since he lives there too. 

[Deleted]

Dec 25, 2020 13:56:19 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Dec 25, 2020 12:30:22 GMT -5 violagirl said:

Well looks like I don't have to worry about buying the land after all. My immediate neighbour is buying the land behind me and the next person. 

He obviously has a lot more money than me. lol. 

At least there won't be townhouses behind us. My husband is a bit worried about what exactly his plans are for the land but anything he has planned is likely going to be much less intrusive than a housing development. 

I would think it’s like that he prefers for it to remain as it is, or close to it. He has a vested interest in keeping it that way since he lives there too. 

I don't know.  I sort of agree with violagirl's husband.  Unless you are living next to a multi-millionaire, $180k isn't pocket change.  

[violagirl]

Dec 25, 2020 15:28:00 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Dec 25, 2020 13:56:19 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I would think it’s like that he prefers for it to remain as it is, or close to it. He has a vested interest in keeping it that way since he lives there too. 

I don't know.  I sort of agree with violagirl 's husband.  Unless you are living next to a multi-millionaire, $180k isn't pocket change.  

Our household income is over 200k per year but we are the poor people on the block. Neighbour is a new ER doctor. I would think even for him $180k wouldn't be pocket change. On the other hand he was pretty passionate about keeping the trees and development out of his backyard. 

I'm assuming he may clear a few trees to make his current yard a bit bigger, especially if he decides to put in a pool and maybe make some trails for his kids to play back there but I can't see him doing too much. But really not much I can do about it in any case. I'm just happy to benefit from it.

[bookkeeper]

Sounds like everything is fine until your neighbor with the $$ decides to move.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 27, 2020 14:11:51 GMT -5 violagirl said:

Dec 25, 2020 15:28:00 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

I don't know.  I sort of agree with violagirl 's husband.  Unless you are living next to a multi-millionaire, $180k isn't pocket change.  

Our household income is over 200k per year but we are the poor people on the block. Neighbour is a new ER doctor. I would think even for him $180k wouldn't be pocket change. On the other hand he was pretty passionate about keeping the trees and development out of his backyard. 

I'm assuming he may clear a few trees to make his current yard a bit bigger, especially if he decides to put in a pool and maybe make some trails for his kids to play back there but I can't see him doing too much. But really not much I can do about it in any case. I'm just happy to benefit from it.

I might ask in the future if they’d consider selling you back your portion of this land when you have more cash.  This way, you’d be able to retrain control, even if they moved.

[oped]

If I was buying a whole chunk it wouldn’t be subdivided into separate lots.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

No worries about stuff built behind our house since we are rural and 3 of our 5 acres are wooded behind our house! 

so glad a solution was found!

[buystoys]

We own the two lots behind our house.  One of them has the swimming pool in it.    We are going to plant around the pool for more privacy.  But we're in a small development outside of town with very little traffic on our road.  There's not a lot to worry about other than neighbors.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Good!

I had similar questions as Oped’s.

I also worried about liability issues.

Be as kind and accommodating as you can be to your neighbor — watch his house when he’s away, keep your yard up, bring over cookies on a regular basis, etc. 😁

[violagirl]

Dec 27, 2020 19:25:32 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Good!

I had similar questions as Oped’s.

I also worried about liability issues.

Be as kind and accommodating as you can be to your neighbor — watch his house when he’s away, keep your yard up, bring over cookies on a regular basis, etc. 😁

Ha yes we were thinking the same thing. Don't want to make him mad. Perhaps in future we will consider buying the land from him. At least it would never be able to be developed again unless all 9 neighbours agree to sell all their land. There will be no access to the land save through our properties. 

Since we are both on vacation with nothing to do, we took a drive around the area the other day scouting out properties with acreage. Husband has in his head to sell current house and move outside the city. Personally I think where we are is the best compromise between city/country. If my husband was an outdoorsman or into farming I could see this but he is the farthest thing from that so don't imagine we will buy 100 acres anytime soon.