What aboutism

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I have been trying to wrap my brain around all the ‘what about Obama (usually’) excuses that I hear on this board.

The US has done some pretty shitty things throughout history, many of which I cringe when I think about it.  BUT just because we did it does NOT make it right.  Separating kids from their parents?  Putting kids in cages?

Why is it that when something like this comes up on the board, the ‘what about s’ come out.  Do they think that this is the right thing to do, regardless of administration?  Why does another administration’s failings (if they DID happen) make something the ‘Christian’ thing to do....or the RIGHT thing to do?  How can one rationalize something is ok, because someone else did it?  Isn’t a travesty still a travesty?

[dondub]

Aug 23, 2020 14:31:13 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I have been trying to wrap my brain around all the ‘what about Obama (usually’) excuses that I hear on this board.

The US has done some pretty shitty things throughout history, many of which I cringe when I think about it.  BUT just because we did it does NOT make it right.  Separating kids from their parents?  Putting kids in cages?

Why is it that when something like this comes up on the board, the ‘what about s’ come out.  Do they think that this is the right thing to do, regardless of administration?  Why does another administration’s failings (if they DID happen) make something the ‘Christian’ thing to do....or the RIGHT thing to do?  How can one rationalize something is ok, because someone else did it?  Isn’t a travesty still a travesty?

Just sleazy justification for those folks supporting those actions by blaming someone else for allegedly doing it first. Trump is an expert at this and other methods of letting himself off the hook.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

If we're going to talk about the actual concoction of the argument and not the topic of it: 
It's a debate strategy to get someone off of their point. If you can switch someone from the topic they're trying to discuss to a different but tangential topic, then you're "winning" the debate. 

[djAdvocate]

it's a way of deflecting responsibility.

just because someone else whom we may or not like or may or may not respect has done something in the past that is WRONG does not make it RIGHT for Trump to be doing it.

kids in cages is wrong. if Obama did it, then what makes you think that makes it OK? I mean, the people that say this do NOT like Obama, so what kind of justification is that?

again, it is deflection, for possibly immoral behavior. it just makes you look bad to do it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 23, 2020 17:53:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it's a way of deflecting responsibility.

just because someone else whom we may or not like or may or may not respect has done something in the past that is WRONG does not make it RIGHT for Trump to be doing it.

kids in cages is wrong. if Obama did it, then what makes you think that makes it OK? I mean, the people that say this do NOT like Obama, so what kind of justification is that?

again, it is deflection, for possibly immoral behavior. it just makes you look bad to do it.

Oh you mean like the pearl clutching at an African American woman wearing a sleeveless dress vs then shrugging when we get a white first lady whose done soft core porn?

Anyone who can't admit Trump is a direct shot at the threat to white privilege the Obama's were is deluded. They have to drink the kool aid to stomach their deal with the devil.

[djAdvocate]

I spent about two years wondering how Trump got elected. I remember at the time it was said that middle to lower class uneducated and poor whites voted for him because of their loss of economic power. they claimed that the economy sucked under Obama and that they wanted Trump to fix it. in survey after survey, Trump voters registered THE MOST CYNICAL about economic outlook.

then, as soon as Trump entered office, they became THE LEAST CYNICAL about the economy. and that persisted long after the fact that Trump did nothing to improve on Obama's performance. so, in short, that was NOT the explanation. Trump voters fared no better under Trump than Obama.

so what was the answer? it is an idea, not a thing. and that idea was discussed HERE:

www.nytimes.com/2018/04/24/us/politics/trump-economic-anxiety.html

it is FEAR OF CULTURAL DISPLACEMENT that caused Trump to win. and let's be clear. it is still there. the ONLY thing that keeps him from winning THIS time is energy. that is it. if people can't get off their ass and view this as an existential threat to pretty much everything we have done since the Cold War, then we diserve to fail.

[Opti]

Aug 23, 2020 20:38:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Aug 23, 2020 17:53:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it's a way of deflecting responsibility.

just because someone else whom we may or not like or may or may not respect has done something in the past that is WRONG does not make it RIGHT for Trump to be doing it.

kids in cages is wrong. if Obama did it, then what makes you think that makes it OK? I mean, the people that say this do NOT like Obama, so what kind of justification is that?

again, it is deflection, for possibly immoral behavior. it just makes you look bad to do it.

Oh you mean like the pearl clutching at an African American woman wearing a sleeveless dress vs then shrugging when we get a white first lady whose done soft core porn?

Anyone who can't admit Trump is a direct shot at the threat to white privilege the Obama's were is deluded. They have to drink the kool aid to stomach their deal with the devil.

I don't think it was entirely because she was black, it was more she was a black woman who didn't fit into the white female standards of beauty that some hold dear. I think if she had the build of Halle Barry she wouldn't have gotten the flack she did. I didn't really get it, because she's not even built like Venus or Serena Williams who have gotten shit over the years because of their appearance. I can't relate because they are obviously how some fit black women look. 

So those who think the first lady is some decorative piece for our WH are apparently all excited about Melania. Personally I preferred Michelle Obama's real person style of dress and being, so I'm kind of meh on the designer wear that Melania likes. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 23, 2020 21:11:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 23, 2020 20:38:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Oh you mean like the pearl clutching at an African American woman wearing a sleeveless dress vs then shrugging when we get a white first lady whose done soft core porn?

Anyone who can't admit Trump is a direct shot at the threat to white privilege the Obama's were is deluded. They have to drink the kool aid to stomach their deal with the devil.

I don't think it was entirely because she was black, it was more she was a black woman who didn't fit into the white female standards of beauty that some hold dear. I think if she had the build of Halle Barry she wouldn't have gotten the flack she did. I didn't really get it, because she's not even built like Venus or Serena Williams who have gotten shit over the years because of their appearance. I can't relate because they are obviously how some fit black women look. 

So those who think the first lady is some decorative piece for our WH are apparently all excited about Melania. Personally I preferred Michelle Obama's real person style of dress and being, so I'm kind of meh on the designer wear that Melania likes. 

Which white female standard of First Lady?  Laura Bush?  Hilary Clinton?  Barbara Bush?  Nancy Reagan? Rosalyn Carter?  You are going to have to go back to Jackie Kennedy to get a fashion plate female.  First Lady has really never had a clothes horse as a First Lady for the last 60 years.  

IMO, this had nothing to do with her being an athletic looking female, but because she was black.

[Tennesseer]

Didn't Donald Trump compare his wife to Jackie Kennedy Onassis not too long ago?

[NastyWoman]

Aug 23, 2020 21:11:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 23, 2020 20:38:54 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Oh you mean like the pearl clutching at an African American woman wearing a sleeveless dress vs then shrugging when we get a white first lady whose done soft core porn?

Anyone who can't admit Trump is a direct shot at the threat to white privilege the Obama's were is deluded. They have to drink the kool aid to stomach their deal with the devil.

I don't think it was entirely because she was black, it was more she was a black woman who didn't fit into the white female standards of beauty that some hold dear. I think if she had the build of Halle Barry she wouldn't have gotten the flack she did. I didn't really get it, because she's not even built like Venus or Serena Williams who have gotten shit over the years because of their appearance. I can't relate because they are obviously how some fit black women look. 

So those who think the first lady is some decorative piece for our WH are apparently all excited about Melania. Personally I preferred Michelle Obama's real person style of dress and being, so I'm kind of meh on the designer wear that Melania likes. 

Your reasoning goes straight over my head. How is that NOT about Michelle Obama being black? Nothing you say after the bolded statement explains what you are saying in any way at all.

[Opti]

Aug 23, 2020 21:46:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Aug 23, 2020 21:11:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

I don't think it was entirely because she was black, it was more she was a black woman who didn't fit into the white female standards of beauty that some hold dear. I think if she had the build of Halle Barry she wouldn't have gotten the flack she did. I didn't really get it, because she's not even built like Venus or Serena Williams who have gotten shit over the years because of their appearance. I can't relate because they are obviously how some fit black women look. 

So those who think the first lady is some decorative piece for our WH are apparently all excited about Melania. Personally I preferred Michelle Obama's real person style of dress and being, so I'm kind of meh on the designer wear that Melania likes. 

Which white female standard of First Lady?  Laura Bush?  Hilary Clinton?  Barbara Bush?  Nancy Reagan? Rosalyn Carter?  You are going to have to go back to Jackie Kennedy to get a fashion plate female.  First Lady has really never had a clothes horse as a First Lady for the last 60 years.  

IMO, this had nothing to do with her being an athletic looking female, but because she was black.

The white standard of beauty as put forth in fashion magazines. I remember both Laura Bush and Nancy Reagan being discussed in the press about which designers they were wearing. I don't think there is a standard of beauty for first ladies but I do believe Barbara Bush and Hillary were probably less liked by some for their build and manner of dress. Before I posted I looked for pics with Barbara Bush in sleeveless dresses. I didn't find any. I do think for some, Jackie Kennedy is the image they have in their head for what a first lady should be.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 24, 2020 6:21:47 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 23, 2020 21:46:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Which white female standard of First Lady?  Laura Bush?  Hilary Clinton?  Barbara Bush?  Nancy Reagan? Rosalyn Carter?  You are going to have to go back to Jackie Kennedy to get a fashion plate female.  First Lady has really never had a clothes horse as a First Lady for the last 60 years.  

IMO, this had nothing to do with her being an athletic looking female, but because she was black.

The white standard of beauty as put forth in fashion magazines. I remember both Laura Bush and Nancy Reagan being discussed in the press about which designers they were wearing. I don't think there is a standard of beauty for first ladies but I do believe Barbara Bush and Hillary were probably less liked by some for their build and manner of dress. Before I posted I looked for pics with Barbara Bush in sleeveless dresses. I didn't find any. I do think for some, Jackie Kennedy is the image they have in their head for what a first lady should be.

I think you are bending over backwards to defend the racism displayed against Michelle Obama.  

It wasn’t a sleeveless dress, it was the fact that MO had the arms to wear that sleeveless dress magnificently.  There is a reason that older women do not tend to wear sleeveless dresses.  No one has said a word about Melania wearing sleeveless dresses.  Why?  

ETA:  in fact, MO and Hillary Clinton had 2 things in common.  Both were either as or more educated than their president husbands and both probably were more on the receiving end of derision from the fashion police.  Why do you think that is?  

[swamp]

Aug 24, 2020 10:14:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Aug 24, 2020 6:21:47 GMT -5 Opti said:

The white standard of beauty as put forth in fashion magazines. I remember both Laura Bush and Nancy Reagan being discussed in the press about which designers they were wearing. I don't think there is a standard of beauty for first ladies but I do believe Barbara Bush and Hillary were probably less liked by some for their build and manner of dress. Before I posted I looked for pics with Barbara Bush in sleeveless dresses. I didn't find any. I do think for some, Jackie Kennedy is the image they have in their head for what a first lady should be.

I think you are bending over backwards to defend the racism displayed against Michelle Obama.  

It wasn’t a sleeveless dress, it was the fact that MO had the arms to wear that sleeveless dress magnificently.  There is a reason that older women do not tend to wear sleeveless dresses.  No one has said a word about Melania wearing sleeveless dresses.  Why?  

ETA:  in fact, MO and Hillary Clinton had 2 things in common.  Both were either as or more educated than their president husbands and both probably were more on the receiving end of derision from the fashion police.  Why do you think that is?  

Kaylee McEnanay wears sundresses for her press conferences on behalf of the white house.  She looks great in them, but why isn't she being excoriated for her manner of dress? 

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 24, 2020 10:39:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 24, 2020 10:14:46 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I think you are bending over backwards to defend the racism displayed against Michelle Obama.  

It wasn’t a sleeveless dress, it was the fact that MO had the arms to wear that sleeveless dress magnificently.  There is a reason that older women do not tend to wear sleeveless dresses.  No one has said a word about Melania wearing sleeveless dresses.  Why?  

ETA:  in fact, MO and Hillary Clinton had 2 things in common.  Both were either as or more educated than their president husbands and both probably were more on the receiving end of derision from the fashion police.  Why do you think that is?  

Kaylee McEnanay wears sundresses for her press conferences on behalf of the white house.  She looks great in them, but why isn't she being excoriated for her manner of dress? 

I think it has to do that she is as white as a sheet of paper

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 24, 2020 10:45:46 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 24, 2020 10:39:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

Kaylee McEnanay wears sundresses for her press conferences on behalf of the white house.  She looks great in them, but why isn't she being excoriated for her manner of dress? 

I think it has to do that she is as white as a sheet of paper

Ya think?