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Post by pig on Apr 11, 2011 13:54:36 GMT -5
No, does the expression not knowing what you're talking about mean anything to you?
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Post by pig on Apr 11, 2011 14:04:03 GMT -5
RJ you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about on the subject. When I start telling you how to fix a car you can tell me what's it's like in academia. All your "I know how you operate" "and I'm so deep you wouldn't understand" aren't going to change that fact. I used to like you but you're even worse than Deb lately. Demanding apologies from mods for percieved slights and acting like you are better than everyone else here. Me no likey.
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Post by pig on Apr 11, 2011 14:06:51 GMT -5
Not trying to change your life. Don't respond to me if you don't like my responses. I frankly wouldn't miss your attitude one bit.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Apr 11, 2011 14:23:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't let him get away with talking to me like that!
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Apr 11, 2011 15:39:35 GMT -5
Mich If your work schedule is to start early and end early, I would not change my work routine for this student. You snooze you lose. In my anesthesia rotation if you did not show up for your OR case it was given to another resident...and they started very early in the morning. Do you actually think they'd start an operation 30 minutes late because of me? I'd tell her the start time and if she had hesitations I'd go to the Dean and her. You don't need the hassle give what you have been thru with your health. I'm with Deb on this. And I've suggest that a brief mention of "no makeup times" be included in whatever syllabus you hand out. That said, I understand that the university wants to cozy up to easy money and that forces you to play politics. But a written policy that requires a signed exception from someone with a higher pay grade than you lets you out of that loop nicely, in my opinion...
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 11, 2011 15:50:19 GMT -5
There is no formal syllabus, Beth. I am teaching a single student research - trying to get them to a point where they can work independently - that is, get them to the point where I don't have to hang over their shoulder and tell them what to do all the time.
I told her that these were the hours that I worked and would prefer that she be here when I was here. She asked if she could work weekends and I told her that I do not come in then. I have set hours in the lab and she's welcome to use me as a resource, but I'm not about to let her loose with irreplacable samples and expensive reagents and equipment without being there.
Tomorrow, she's got a pass since I have PT tomorrow morning and will work from home tomorrow afternoon. But she'll need to be in around 9 Wed. (I have something that I must do earlier).
Today was particularly frustrating. She does not listen well and I can see that this is going to be a problem.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2011 9:55:34 GMT -5
Day 2, working with student:
Show her how to do development. Mention to her that her overwhelming perfume is making me ill, please resist the urge to use. Her comment is that it hides the sweat during the summer. Oh joy. Should I suggest showers and deodorant?
Pipetting 101: How many different ways can you tell someone the same thing? Why doesn't it sink in? I finally wrapped my hand around her's, on the pipet to show her where the first stop was and how much pressure she needed to use. My coworker has joined in the discussion and apparently his way isn't any better than mine. Until she figures this out, she's not going to be doing anything other than pipetting dye.
This is going to be a very long summer.............................and the university forbids employees to keep a bottle of tequila in their desk drawer,
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Post by pig on Apr 13, 2011 9:58:42 GMT -5
Mich, count your blessings. That doesn't sound so bad at all. Try having to talk to the parents of a failed masters student demanding answers as to why you ruined the life of their kid. That was a lot of fun.
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on Apr 13, 2011 10:07:05 GMT -5
Mich
Another approach would be like one in grammar school. I'd have her sit at a lab table in a corner to learn pipetting.
Have HER gather 100 test tubes and she is to do 1000[10(different amts)x100] pipettes of different amounts. Then a 'pipette test' where she shows you she is competent...before being taught the next skill.
[plus she'd be out of your way!!]
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Apr 13, 2011 10:37:29 GMT -5
Day 2, working with student: Show her how to do development. Mention to her that her overwhelming perfume is making me ill, please resist the urge to use. Her comment is that it hides the sweat during the summer. Oh joy. Should I suggest showers and deodorant? Pipetting 101: How many different ways can you tell someone the same thing? Why doesn't it sink in? I finally wrapped my hand around her's, on the pipet to show her where the first stop was and how much pressure she needed to use. My coworker has joined in the discussion and apparently his way isn't any better than mine. Until she figures this out, she's not going to be doing anything other than pipetting dye. This is going to be a very long summer.............................and the university forbids employees to keep a bottle of tequila in their desk drawer, Yes, but you probably still have some prescribed opiates. Of course there are any number of stains that require ethanol as a solvent. Perhaps it's time to look at your inventories ...
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Post by pig on Apr 13, 2011 10:41:07 GMT -5
It's almost always denatured thanks to you Verrip!
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on Apr 13, 2011 10:47:36 GMT -5
V You're right!!! Mich can turn her lemons into a 'special' lemonade.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Apr 13, 2011 10:50:03 GMT -5
It's almost always denatured thanks to you Verrip! Moi? Why I'm the most adamant supporter of purity around. All you have to do is buy chromatography grade EtOH. No additives at all.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Apr 13, 2011 10:53:23 GMT -5
Maybe Mich could tell her that her pipetting skills have to start with the basics.
Have her mouth pipette ethanol into test tubes using one of those little 1 ml pipettes. She's bound to get some in her mouth. Repeatedly. Then report her for being drunk to her advisor.
Problem solved!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2011 10:57:27 GMT -5
Have HER gather 100 test tubes and she is to do 1000[10(different amts)x100] pipettes of different amounts. Then a 'pipette test' where she shows you she is competent...before being taught the next skill.
Deb, this is essentially what I had her do. I demonstrated myself EXACTLY what she needed to do, I wrote it down and she still screwed it up.
Before I can let her loose with patient samples, she needs to demonstrate the ability to (1) listen to directions (2) follow directions (3) be able to pipet accurately each and every time.
I *think* the problem is that she's not listening. Today was a dismal failure, so tomorrow will be a repeat of today. Every other student that I've done this with has caught on in an hour. 2 hours this morning and I've gotta do this again before we can go on.
LOL about the drugs. I still have enough oxycontin left to give us enough money to get one of those huts out on the water in Tahiti and fly me and TD there for a week. Unfortunately, narcotics only affect my concentration.....not my stess level.
I'll need that hut in Tahiti by August.......hell, I'm gonna need it by May!
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Post by pig on Apr 13, 2011 10:58:04 GMT -5
All you have to do is buy chromatography grade EtOH. No additives at all.
It costs about triple that's why lol
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2011 10:59:14 GMT -5
Moi? Why I'm the most adamant supporter of purity around. All you have to do is buy chromatography grade EtOH. No additives at all.
Yep, we've got 100% EtOH in the lab, not cut with MeOH. Tequila tastes better.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Apr 13, 2011 11:01:33 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on Apr 13, 2011 11:03:39 GMT -5
If she does not learn by listening or watching...she will have to learn her own way of 1000 pipettes before her 'pipette test'.
If it takes her 10 weeks to learn that task so be it. At least she learned that skill even tho' you had high hopes for her learning more. Take and teach her where she is...be sorta 'Montessori' grade school in the approach...like teaching children.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2011 11:18:32 GMT -5
If it takes her 10 weeks to learn how to do this, I'm punting on this study - or doing it myself.
At this point, I'm getting the feeling that she wants the study handed to her on a silver plate. Nope, it does not work that way. I am not writing her proposal, that is her responsibility. I will write the protocol, since I'm developing it so that's mine. She wants me to do her research for her and that's not the way it works. She's been given the tools and she needs to get up off her ass and do the leg work herself.
To learn how to do something in the lab, you watch someone do it, the instructor watches you do it, then you do it yourself. Up until now, this has always worked.
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Post by pig on Apr 13, 2011 11:21:53 GMT -5
Are there other issues bothering you? I mean honestly it's like you've never encountered a problem student before. You do know it won't be the last one like that you'll have? If it's bothering you THAT much you need to talk to your employer.
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on Apr 13, 2011 11:27:01 GMT -5
Viola !!! Now that you have your answer...go in peace my child. [I'd punt on it now and maybe later do it if it's still interesting.] .
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2011 11:46:53 GMT -5
Pig....I have taught students for the last 20+ years - everything from HS kids doing science projects, to PhD students working on their thesis. This has been the first student that I've taught that has had these diffculties.
I hope it's the last....
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on Apr 13, 2011 11:55:13 GMT -5
Awww Mich I'm sure on the the planet this is not the first student with this problem. This could be a challenging learning experience for the both of you.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 13, 2011 13:42:46 GMT -5
LOL.....I just had a meeting with my boss.
Apparently they got 2 clinicians from the same school in Saudi and both have the same issues. Neither pay attention to what they're being taught and do things the way that they want, regardless of anything any instructor says to them (including work in the clinic - which would scare the crap out of me if I was a clinician). Their way is the right way, even if it's not.
I get one more chance to get Pipetting 101 into her head, or she'll get booted. Ultimately, I'll wind up doing the project as it does have merit, but I can do it much faster than teaching her.
I just don't have the time and energy to waste on someone who does not want to do the project correctly. We don't have the resources or $$ to waste on someone who does not do things that can get to a publishable state. Not counting our patient samples (which are irreplacable), we have invested over $3200 in supplies alone so far - and this does not count disposables or my time. Add those 2 in and you're talking about a research project costing up around $50K. Granted, we do have a million $+ budget, but there are a lot of things that could also be done with that kind of money.
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DebMD (banned)
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Post by DebMD (banned) on Apr 13, 2011 13:52:08 GMT -5
Life's too short.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 18, 2011 7:45:42 GMT -5
ARGH!
So Friday, I scheduled working with the student this morning. She came in 20 min late, only to tell me that she wasn't going to be able to work today.
She has my email address. My office lab phone is available online in the university's website and my cell phone # is on the lab door (since I'm the emergency contact).
A little more advanced notice would be appreciated. Fortunately I did not pull the supplies she'd need from the freezer - otherwise, I'd be tossing them now.
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on Apr 18, 2011 7:48:04 GMT -5
Apparently they got 2 clinicians from the same school in Saudi and both have the same issues. Neither pay attention to what they're being taught and do things the way that they want, regardless of anything any instructor says to them (including work in the clinic - which would scare the crap out of me if I was a clinician). Their way is the right way, even if it's not.That's why I referred to Saudi Arabia as the Land of the Walking Dead when I worked over there
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on Apr 18, 2011 7:49:14 GMT -5
Oatmeal is finished up, haven't made that in a long time. Off now to get gas and then hit work before everyone arrives.
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