It's 7:30......

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

and the student that I'm working with is now 30 min late, after emailing me and telling me she'd be here at 7.

We have a lot to do today and you'd think that they'd at least show up on time the first day. I'm here early, leave early and when they come late, it means that I will be here later than I want - which means I get caught in the traffic jam from hell trying to get to the gym.

I HATE trying to teach clinical people basic research. 99% have absolutely no interest in it and are only doing it to pad their CV to try to get into a professional program. This makes it a huge waste of my time.

If she doesn't show up, I start on doing some development and she'll get put on the backburner. She's not going to like that, but tough.

[Apple]

I see that as lack of respect, I'm big on showing respect. I'd put her on the back burner and leave when I want. I'd also tell her that it WON'T happen again or the "padding" option will be gone.

[Bluerobin]

Leave a note on the door and go to the gym. "Dear student, I waited as long as I could. Don't waste my time, or you fail."

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I'm with you on the respect issue and this tends to be a HUGE issue when I deal with students. My time is important and when I schedule to work with someone, my work gets put on the backburner. Since most of the stuff that I do requires preparation, then it winds up being a wasted day for me.

When I got back last week, I emailed her and let her know I was back in town and requested that she give me until the end of the week to deal with things I had to deal with from being gone so long.

She's here....

[pig]

Not a big deal. If you expect students to show up on time, you're fooling yourself. If they are undergraduates then it's completely normal. If they are graduate students you need to call their advisor. If this kind of stuff bothers you, you're in the wrong business.

[pig]

RJ, I don't think Mich is a prof so she has no recourse other than to tell their advisor. Facts of life RJ.

[pig]

How so? Do you know what you're talking about?

[pig]

Yeah, sure RJ. lol You obviously have no idea how it works in academia.

[pig]

Well tell me about your experiences in the field then and I'll listen.

ETA do you know anything about motorcycles RJ?

[pig]

Yeah RJ because you're just so deep.

[pig]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what you know about it?

[pig]

I plan too!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I'm not a professor.....my boss (who's the dean) gets a student who wants to do a research project. I put together a project that I think that they can do, run it by him and we fine tune it to the student's abilities. This student is not an undergraduate and there is not a grade involved, therefore I have absolutely no control over this situation. For undergrads where they are taking classes, then I do have a huge amount of input as to what grade's assigned to them and I have in the past really screwed up what some students thought would be an easy A.

This student is a dentist who wants to get into the residency program for a speciality in periodontics. Her science and math is sketchy at best, as I discovered this morning. So it means that not only am I teaching basic lab skills, I've got to teach lab math, chemistry, etc. This morning I had to explain how to use a pH meter and acids/bases (yeah, and this is your current crop of dentists, folks).

Rick, my boss wants this done so I'll do it. Simple as that. If she becomes too much of a time suck or things do not work, I can her. However, in the meantime I do need to give her a legitimate chance to show what she can do - which means that I need to teach her to the best of my ability.

[pig]

Thanks for clarifying Mich, that's what I thought. I hope RJ gets it now.

[swamp]

Apr 11, 2011 9:46:48 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I'm not a professor.....my boss (who's the dean) gets a student who wants to do a research project. I put together a project that I think that they can do, run it by him and we fine tune it to the student's abilities. This student is not an undergraduate and there is not a grade involved, therefore I have absolutely no control over this situation. For undergrads where they are taking classes, then I do have a huge amount of input as to what grade's assigned to them and I have in the past really screwed up what some students thought would be an easy A.

This student is a dentist who wants to get into the residency program for a speciality in periodontics. Her science and math is sketchy at best, as I discovered this morning. So it means that not only am I teaching basic lab skills, I've got to teach lab math, chemistry, etc. This morning I had to explain how to use a pH meter and acids/bases (yeah, and this is your current crop of dentists, folks).

Rick, my boss wants this done so I'll do it. Simple as that. If she becomes too much of a time suck or things do not work, I can her. However, in the meantime I do need to give her a legitimate chance to show what she can do - which means that I need to teach her to the best of my ability.

How did she get through college without these skills?

[pig]

Swamp a dentist or med student typically will only see a pH meter in chemistry lab. That's not unusual that they wouldn't remember how to use one. Similarly, not a lot of math is required for either as well. Honestly I don't care if my dentist or MD knows math or how to use a pH meter.

[Artemis Windsong]

For the chronically late, set the time 15 to 30 minutes earlier than planned but don't tell them, and they might be on time. Or arrive 30 minutes late and you'll still be on time.

Since this is job related, you get paid for entertaining us! T.Y. ;D

[swamp]

Apr 11, 2011 9:54:50 GMT -5 @pig said:

Swamp a dentist or med student typically will only see a pH meter in chemistry lab. That's not unusual that they wouldn't remember how to use one. Similarly, not a lot of math is required for either as well. Honestly I don't care if my dentist or MD knows math or how to use a pH meter.

I don't really care either, but you'd think that she would have seen one before. A refresher might be necessary, but not a full tutorial, unless she's an idiot.

[pig]

"I put together a project that I think that they can do, run it by him and we fine tune it to the student's abilities."

Perhaps you could have them do a project on how to read a clock and why it's important to be on time?

[TD2K]

unless she's an idiot


That's pretty much Mich's opinion of students. There have been a few that did good work, the rest of them just ruin a perfectly good job at University

[DebMD (banned)]

Mich
If your work schedule is to start early and end early, I would not change my work routine for this student.

You snooze you lose.

In my anesthesia rotation if you did not show up for your OR case it was given to another resident...and they started very early in the morning.

Do you actually think they'd start an operation 30 minutes late because of me?

I'd tell her the start time and if she had hesitations I'd go to the Dean and her.

You don't need the hassle give what you have been thru with your health.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Honestly I don't care if my dentist or MD knows math or how to use a pH meter.

You should. Both your dentist and MD prescribe drugs and they should easily be able to figure out how to calculate out doses. If my dentist or doctor does not know the difference between a mg and a µg, then I'm getting a new healthcare provider.

I have no problem explaining how to use a pH meter, but you damn well should know that you use a base to increase the pH to 9.6 from 8 (which is what happened today).

In this student's case, she got her undergraduate/dental degree in Saudi.

I told my coworker after she left for her seminar this morning that I'm going to be on Prozac before this project's over. Then I won't give a shit about anything.

[ysi]

Late is almost a given at a university-just the Mon am traffic and parking alone can make you late if its a new location for you. Trying to find some obscure lab when they are sandwiched into leftover space everywhere? Ask for directions and you will be misdirected all over the place. Did you give very clear instructions?

[pig]

"but you damn well should know that you use a base to increase the pH to 9.6 from 8 (which is what happened today)."

ETA misread what you wrote. This is totally irrelevant to a dr or a dentist.

"You should. Both your dentist and MD prescribe drugs and they should easily be able to figure out how to calculate out doses. If my dentist or doctor does not know the difference between a mg and a µg, then I'm getting a new healthcare provider."

You do know that they use standardized dosing so they don't have to know jack shit about micro/mili or whatever. It's ll done for them in the formulary.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Late is almost a given at a university-just the Mon am traffic and parking alone can make you late if its a new location for you. Trying to find some obscure lab when they are sandwiched into leftover space everywhere? Ask for directions and you will be misdirected all over the place. Did you give very clear instructions?

At 7 am, traffic is not an issue and I have met with her (both in the lab and in my boss's office several times) before today. This is not an excuse.

[pig]

This is not an excuse.

Are you paying her?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

No, she's not getting paid, at least not by us.

From what I can tell, the Saudi government is paying her a stipend to get educated in the specialty. However, her education does not compete well with those US (and some other foreign students) to get into the specialty programs. She did not get into the upcoming class, that starts in July so by doing research, it will help make her a stronger candidate for the program.

The university wants to see her admitted but they do have standards. It's a very competitive program and she's not eligible at this point because her education is lacking and this is one way of getting around it. Foreign students pay a buttload in tuition - far more than even out of state students - and this would be also paid by the Saudi government since she's been sent here. So politics is entering into the game too.

[DebMD (banned)]

She cuts the mustard like the rest of US(a).

[pig]

If she's not getting paid nor getting a grade your leverage is nill. The only thing you can do is let her know that you will not speak favorably to your boss about her which may effect her getting into whatever. Either way you aren't really being put out. I mean if you're there early then you'd of been there anyway. If she tries to rescedule when you were going to be gone just tell her no. Pretty simple even if it is annoying.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

Did she ever show up? If so, what was her excuse?