Rental Agreements and Evergreen Clauses

[Elizabeth]

To all of the landlords or people who work in property management:

Have you ever seen a rental agreement for a property that evergreens for an entire year?

I know in the lease I have with my renters, after the initial 2 year lease period, they will be going month to month.

I received a letter from the property management company that I rented my condo from that since I notified them of my intention to leave late, I am responsible to pay the rent for the next year or until they find another renter for the property. So I will be paying $17,000 to NOT live there.


First, I did NOT notify them late. It sounds like something screwy is going on here and the left hand (billing) may not know what's going on with the right hand (contract manager). I guess I need to drive over there and sit everyone down in the same room since nobody likes to return phone calls around there.

Second, if this is true, I am going to post on every message board and website about what greaseballs they are. I will probably try to report them to the BBB too.

[MN-Investor]

You might want to look at what state law says on the matter. I thought I had heard that if you do not sign a new year lease, then state law says that it changes to a month-to-month lease. But check it out for your state. I may be completely wrong.

[midjd]

Yes, check your state renters' law. I know in IN and quite a few other states it automatically converts to month-to-month after a lease is not renewed.

There's also the "until they find a renter" - if you can find someone who is a suitable candidate and willing to rent, that would dramatically increase your bargaining position (assuming they have some basis for the evergreen clause). They can't turn down good renters and continue to charge you.

[phil5185]

No, I'm a landlord, I haven't heard of that. My leases default to monthly after 12 months. Did you notify them at least 30-days before the lease was up? That may be their hang up. Probably a miscommunication, as you suggest, go in person and show them the dates/paperwork. Don't be adversarial, explain it w/o raising your voice, LOL.
But if they do dig in and insist that you owe $17,000, I would tell them to sue me and get a judgment for it.

[MN-Investor]

Find your original lease and see what it says about giving notice and about automatic renewals. Also check California law to see if the lease conforms to state law.

[zibazinski]

I'm a landlord and mine got month to month as well.

[2kids10horses]

I'm a landlord, and my leases go to month to month after the first year. You need to read your lease.

[zibazinski]

My DD got someone to take over her lease for the summer. Took said person into the office and the office talked the person into signing into a different apartment. I'm telling her she is "off the hook" now because the place where she rents has a duty to her as well as to themselves and their duty is to not shaft her in favor of someone else. She is going to OCS so she did them a favor because those things are automatic lease breakers here. Told her we'd find her another place come fall, she doesn't need to go back to a place that blatantly does nothing to mitigate damages. SHE was doing THEM a favor by coming up with another tenant, something she doesn't have to do in this case. I have never heard of a 2 year lease.

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2011 6:46:04 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

My DD got someone to take over her lease for the summer. Took said person into the office and the office talked the person into signing into a different apartment.

I had a landlord do that to me and it still makes me furious when I think about it event though it was 1978. The way my lease was written, if I left in the middle of it and he couldn't rent it I owed the full amount through the rest of the lease period. He "only" kept the deposit. I was struggling to come up with the front-end expenses for buying my first house and it really hurt to lose the deposit. Another couple in the complex wanted a month-to-month lease when their lease was up because they were closing on a house in a few months. He wouldn't give it to them. I think they stayed in the apartment but he sued them. Don't know what the outcome was.

There is now a surgical pavilion at the local hospital with his name on it. I know who paid for that pavilion.

[ezorn33]

Apr 9, 2011 7:21:24 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I had a landlord do that to me and it still makes me furious when I think about it event though it was 1978. The way my lease was written, if I left in the middle of it and he couldn't rent it I owed the full amount through the rest of the lease period. He "only" kept the deposit. I was struggling to come up with the front-end expenses for buying my first house and it really hurt to lose the deposit. Another couple in the complex wanted a month-to-month lease when their lease was up because they were closing on a house in a few months. He wouldn't give it to them. I think they stayed in the apartment but he sued them. Don't know what the outcome was.

There is now a surgical pavilion at the local hospital with his name on it. I know who paid for that pavilion.

Why wouldn't you owe rent for the rest of the lease period if you left in the middle? And why wouldn't your landlord keep your deposit if you skipped out on your remaining rent payments? You signed a contract and thought you could just say Nevermind! halfway through?

[Deleted]

Apr 9, 2011 8:50:19 GMT -5 ezorn33 said:

Why wouldn't you owe rent for the rest of the lease period if you left in the middle? And why wouldn't your landlord keep your deposit if you skipped out on your remaining rent payments? You signed a contract and thought you could just say Nevermind! halfway through?

The lease seaid that I owed the rest of the lease period only if he couldn't re-rent the place. I sent him another tenant. He rented her a place in another complex he owned. Legal? Probably. Dirty? He*l, yes.

[Deleted]

Somebody else asked this question:
www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-business-law/evergreen-clause-valid-state-california-541934835/a

"Re: Evergreen Clause

Clauses such as these will inevitably contain language specifying that the contract can be terminated by giving some form of notice prior to the expiration of the initial term or that of the renewed term. Timely notice of this type will terminate the contract at the expiration of the then-current term. Apart from this, under California law, the auto-renew provision is normally enforceable unless it is framed in such a way as to violate public policy (for example, if it did not provide for termination upon timely notice prior to the auto-renew)."

So they are not illegal but unusual for residential leases in CA. Most convert to month to month but you MUST READ YOUR CONTRACT. Sounds like you may have missed the date for giving notice.

See if there is a termination fee in the lease if you want to leave early. If not, CA law is straight forward about a tenant breaking a lease and the LL's obligation to mitigate damages. The tenant is on the hook until a new, similarly qualified tenant is found less leasing costs such as advertising and commissions. If you have to go this route (I had to on behalf of MIL several years ago) write them a letter letting them know that you expect to receive notice of when they are advertising et cetera. MIL only had to pay rent until the end of the month (2 extra weeks).

I hate these kinds of contracts. They are quite common here in Germany.

[Peace77]

Where I worked in property management, it was required by county law to offer a 2 year lease.

The law also stated that the 30 day notice had to be 30 days from the beginning of the lease period.

In other words, it was not acceptable to give notice on March 15th that you would be moving on April 15. You had to give notice by March 1st that you would be moving on April 15th. If you gave notice on March 2nd, you would be too late.

[zibazinski]

Florida has now passed a law saying TENANTS have to give 60 days notice not 30 when their lease is ending if they wish to move. Oregon law says LANDLORDS have to give tenants 60 days notice but tenants only have to give 30. Depends on the state and which states favor landlords and which favor tenants. My leases go month to month after their initial year is up but Florida is now requiring new leases to be signed. I believe I will do the same from now on.

[Elizabeth]

I do need to find my lease. I have paperwork for every other legal contract in my life but I can't find that one. Dumb, dumb! I left a message for the contract manager on Friday to please fax me a copy. I also do have the letter in which they were acknowledging that I was terminating my lease, and the last time I spoke to her, she said I should have my security deposit back by now.

If they do push it, I will do as Phil says and let them sue me for it. I would almost guarantee that the contract does not evergreen. I generally read contracts pretty carefully since I deal with them all day at work. It was over a year ago so I can't remember exactly though.