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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 12:42:43 GMT -5
I have a dilemma and would love some opinions...
When my house sold I put $6K into one of my DS's bank accounts. I did this for a few reasons.
DS's been living on his own dealing with seizures and they make him miss a lot of work hours. He struggles to make ends meet and was taking the bus/Uber to get around and it was really expensive.
He did a ton of walking to save money and I have a lot of respect for the lengths he's been willing to go to live independently. For example, his 5 mile commute home from work took 2 buses and 1.5 hours, yet he did it every night and didn't complain about it at all.
His doctor cleared him to drive and he had a car up where I lived but it was broken down in my driveway and neither of us could swing the cash to deal with it and I couldn't find a buyer. So, I donated it and told him I would give him cash to buy a decent used car after my house sold.
I wanted him to buy a $4-5K car so he would have something safe and decent that would last him for a while. I also wanted to ensure he had enough cash for insurance, title, registration, etc...
He bought a nice car and all is well.
My delimma is I have another DS. He's 2 years older and living with his GF. This son isn't working as much and has a lot of expensive habits like smoking, etc... and hasn't been the easiest person to live with or deal with. Right now his GF is providing much of their income and he's working part-time because there are "no jobs"...
I'd planned to gift each my kids 5K from the sale of my house, but I am really struggling with handing over the cash to my other son. Not because I don't have it in the budget, but because I'm not sure how it will be spent... I guess my biggest fear is he will go use it as a down payment on an unaffordable vehicle and then lose it in a repo, so something similar.
Part of me says to write him a check for less money. Part says hold the cash until one day when he needs it to buy a house or needs a major car repair he can't afford. Part says write it for the 5K and what he does with it is his business.
I just can't decide what to do. It seems really unfair I helped his brother and not him. Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 12:57:45 GMT -5
Each according to his needs?
I don't know what I'd do, either, but if he finds out his brother got $6K...
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 1, 2020 12:58:39 GMT -5
Can you fund a Roth for him? Or just a straight out IRA, there's less temptation to pull out the $$ that way. Then it's his but not available for frivolous or ill-advised pursuits. Or give him money in two parts: $1000 to just spend as he pleases and $4k in an IRA. Or something like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 13:06:14 GMT -5
Each according to his needs? I don't know what I'd do, either, but if he finds out his brother got $6K...
Yeah, that's part of the issue. A big part. He knows I donated his brother's car and promised I would pay to replace it. Donating it was the easiest option for me since I needed to move and had 101 projects I had to get done to do it. But, he also knows I donated a $2500 car and his brother just spent about 4500 on a replacement... I'd considered, and still am, giving him cash equal to the difference. $3500-4K with a request he used it wisely. I know him and his GF struggle because their rent is really expensive. They've lived there for months and haven't been able to afford things like internet or his needed car repair after a minor accident. Cash would help them if used in the right way. I used to have a relative who would give cash but with a ton of strings about how it was to be spent. I didn't appreciate it and don't really want to be that person either.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 1, 2020 13:31:54 GMT -5
I understand the concern, but I would gift him the same amount, tell him you hope he can take this and do something that will have a long-lasting positive effect - such as depositing in the Roth.
But a gift is gift, and you should let go of expectations on how it is used.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 1, 2020 13:32:53 GMT -5
Maybe tell him about it with the gf in earshot - so maybe that can help him contribute more for a bit and take the load off of her.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 1, 2020 13:48:24 GMT -5
How about, instead of a lump sum gift, you give him a little at a time? It's a lot less tempting to "blow the wad" then. JMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 14:09:22 GMT -5
I personally would leave it alone. Set the money aside mentally, but don't act on it yet. If it bothers him, he will eventually talk to you about it. Then you can have a conversation about priorities.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Feb 1, 2020 14:44:03 GMT -5
Fair is not always equal.
You helped to provide his brother with a good, working car plus about $1500. Maybe do the same for your older son? Pay for him to get his car fixed and running well then maybe give him about $1500.
That way both of your sons end up with the same thing - a good, well running car plus $1500.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 1, 2020 15:17:45 GMT -5
I personally would leave it alone. Set the money aside mentally, but don't act on it yet. If it bothers him, he will eventually talk to you about it. Then you can have a conversation about priorities. If he does bring it up, and Shasta gives him the 6k - there are still going to be hard feelings on that process rather than it being planned as even steven from the get go. And those feelings of inequity will remain. It may impact Shasta's relationship with this son - as well as the relationship between the brothers. In a way that here's the 6k after all or money in the future cannot repair. I just don't think it is worth it to mess with that. If he was a heroine addict and might kill himself accidentally on a high-rolling bender - then sure. But just some vague dissatisfaction with they way he's conducting his life? I just don't see an upside to this. I just really don't.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 1, 2020 15:54:08 GMT -5
I’m going against the grain on this one. I would tell him I gifted his brother $6k and once he gets his act together and finds and keeps full time employment for one year, that he will get the same
I don’t reward laziness. I also wouldn’t care if his feelings got hurt. He would get the money, after he grew up and assumed responsibility for himself
And why in the hell is the girlfriend supporting him?
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oped
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Post by oped on Feb 1, 2020 16:01:32 GMT -5
Fair is not always equal. You helped to provide his brother with a good, working car plus about $1500. Maybe do the same for your older son? Pay for him to get his car fixed and running well then maybe give him about $1500. That way both of your sons end up with the same thing - a good, well running car plus $1500. This one gets my vote!
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on Feb 1, 2020 16:03:55 GMT -5
Interesting these very different opinions. How old are your sons? We have 3 adult children and though it will never be perfectly fair or even, we sure as hell try our best to keep gifting close.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 16:14:39 GMT -5
I'm not sure what I'd do honestly. I'm very much in the camp fair does not mean equal. Right now my kids don't get equal financial resources. One is in private school, one public, one gets spendy music lessons, one does not...I could go on and on. They also have different Dad's with different views on buying them crap, so one has tons of toys and video game consoles and games, the other just has what he bought himself at 16.
I have two sets of parents. My mom and stepdad don't talk at all about any help they give my siblings. I'm pretty sure they've been helping out my one brother a lot since he had his knee replaced and I know my mom has given me money on occasion which my brothers had no clue about (I'm not sure even stepdad did!). We're all good and fine with this, but all three of us are hard working and don't expect handouts either. It is nice to know they have our back if the shit hits the fan though.
My Dad and stepmom seem obsessed with keeping things equal. A couple years ago my dad discreetly slips me the envelope when I was visiting and they tell me my sister was having some problems with medical bills for her son and my brother needed help with the house downpayment so, "here you go". It was a check for 2K. No lie, I did a happy dance, but it just seemed weirder to me that they felt they owed me. I would have been just as happy with them keeping it and maybe doling it out when I was in a tough spot.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 1, 2020 16:18:58 GMT -5
I understand the concern, but I would gift him the same amount, tell him you hope he can take this and do something that will have a long-lasting positive effect - such as depositing in the Roth. But a gift is gift, and you should let go of expectations on how it is used. This. Or pay for the things he's not able to afford. Pay a few months rent and fix the car, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 16:40:18 GMT -5
I've just never been that hung up on "equality." My MIL went to ridiculous lengths to make things equal, buying me and my SIL identical gifts even when the gift wasn't to the taste of one or the other. She wrote checks at Christmas to equal stuff out, and the one who didn't get a check was sometimes resentful even though his/her present cost more. He/she wanted $$$, too. One epic Christmas, my niece got an expensive purse and my daughter got $100. The niece got so upset that she ended up with $100 and the purse because her grandfather gave in to shut her up. My daughter knew better than to be anything other than grateful for what she was given.
But then I am a teacher. We had a sign up in the teachers' restroom that said "Equal isn't always fair." It was referring to special education where some kids need more support than others.
I think that is true in life as well.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 1, 2020 16:48:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure what I'd do honestly. I'm very much in the camp fair does not mean equal. Right now my kids don't get equal financial resources. One is in private school, one public, one gets spendy music lessons, one does not...I could go on and on. They also have different Dad's with different views on buying them crap, so one has tons of toys and video game consoles and games, the other just has what he bought himself at 16. I have two sets of parents. My mom and stepdad don't talk at all about any help they give my siblings. I'm pretty sure they've been helping out my one brother a lot since he had his knee replaced and I know my mom has given me money on occasion which my brothers had no clue about (I'm not sure even stepdad did!). We're all good and fine with this, but all three of us are hard working and don't expect handouts either. It is nice to know they have our back if the shit hits the fan though. My Dad and stepmom seem obsessed with keeping things equal. A couple years ago my dad discreetly slips me the envelope when I was visiting and they tell me my sister was having some problems with medical bills for her son and my brother needed help with the house downpayment so, "here you go". It was a check for 2K. No lie, I did a happy dance, but it just seemed weirder to me that they felt they owed me. I would have been just as happy with them keeping it and maybe doling it out when I was in a tough spot. I think it's a bit ironic that there is a strong "fair does not mean equal" commentary - here and other threads, nothing new here - and yet over and over on this board many posters have bitterly complained about siblings who got more assistant from parents. So - obviously - when parents do put that fair does not mean equal into practice it causes a lot of hurt feelings. I haven't seen any posters here happily say - I was stronger - or smarter - or more mature - or had better luck - than my sibling and they needed more parental financial assistance into adulthood. No - it is always with bitterness - and thoughts of being "punished" for being good - or the sibling being rewarded in some way. Even when saying - I did ok, or I have quite a lot of money, or I am very successful there is always a bitter edge - and the bitterness is mostly aimed at the sibling - rather than the parents. I haven't seen anyone that is ok with significant financial disparities while maintaining a really positive feeling towards both parents and sibling/s. It just doesn't happen - and while parents feel that they are helping the kid that needs it, the sibling left out can't seem to be ok with it. I don't know what is right or good - but that is what happens. Is it that siblings don't see the struggles their siblings may have - that the parents see and feel they need to pay money towards to help out but the ungifted sibling can't see the anxiety, depression, lack of intellect or sense or maturity that is making life tougher for the sibling. Maybe the harder working/more talented sibling doesn't want things equal - they want to be the "winner" so the parents evening things out is galling to them? Maybe the parents use fair does not mean equal to continue on with long running favoritism, and the unfavored child knows it?
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Feb 1, 2020 17:02:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure what I'd do honestly. I'm very much in the camp fair does not mean equal. Right now my kids don't get equal financial resources. One is in private school, one public, one gets spendy music lessons, one does not...I could go on and on. They also have different Dad's with different views on buying them crap, so one has tons of toys and video game consoles and games, the other just has what he bought himself at 16. I have two sets of parents. My mom and stepdad don't talk at all about any help they give my siblings. I'm pretty sure they've been helping out my one brother a lot since he had his knee replaced and I know my mom has given me money on occasion which my brothers had no clue about (I'm not sure even stepdad did!). We're all good and fine with this, but all three of us are hard working and don't expect handouts either. It is nice to know they have our back if the shit hits the fan though. My Dad and stepmom seem obsessed with keeping things equal. A couple years ago my dad discreetly slips me the envelope when I was visiting and they tell me my sister was having some problems with medical bills for her son and my brother needed help with the house downpayment so, "here you go". It was a check for 2K. No lie, I did a happy dance, but it just seemed weirder to me that they felt they owed me. I would have been just as happy with them keeping it and maybe doling it out when I was in a tough spot. I think it's a bit ironic that there is a strong "fair does not mean equal" commentary - here and other threads, nothing new here - and yet over and over on this board many posters have bitterly complained about siblings who got more assistant from parents. So - obviously - when parents do put that fair does not mean equal into practice it causes a lot of hurt feelings. I haven't seen any posters here happily say - I was stronger - or smarter - or more mature - or had better luck - than my sibling and they needed more parental financial assistance into adulthood. No - it is always with bitterness - and thoughts of being "punished" for being good - or the sibling being rewarded in some way. Even when saying - I did ok, or I have quite a lot of money, or I am very successful there is always a bitter edge - and the bitterness is mostly aimed at the sibling - rather than the parents. I haven't seen anyone that is ok with significant financial disparities while maintaining a really positive feeling towards both parents and sibling/s. It just doesn't happen - and while parents feel that they are helping the kid that needs it, the sibling left out can't seem to be ok with it. I don't know what is right or good - but that is what happens. Is it that siblings don't see the struggles their siblings may have - that the parents see and feel they need to pay money towards to help out but the ungifted sibling can't see the anxiety, depression, lack of intellect or sense or maturity that is making life tougher for the sibling. Maybe the harder working/more talented sibling doesn't want things equal - they want to be the "winner" so the parents evening things out is galling to them? Maybe the parents use fair does not mean equal to continue on with long running favoritism, and the unfavored child knows it? Except in this case it's the harder working son that was gifted first and it's the less motivated son that is of concern.
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pooks
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Post by pooks on Feb 1, 2020 17:10:48 GMT -5
This one is a tough one. If you view it as a gift, then I would generally think that equal is fair. For example, Christmas our children all get the same amount. However we don't even out need based things. If one of them needed dental work or a car repair, we wouldn't give the other one a check of equal value.
Probably not helpful, but we don't give fairness a lot of thought. In any given year, we will spend more on one of them than the others. They never complain about it.
As far as fairness, when I was a child. I only have 1 half sibling and 1 step sibling. Fairness wasn't a thing then and it isn't now.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 1, 2020 17:11:13 GMT -5
I think it's a bit ironic that there is a strong "fair does not mean equal" commentary - here and other threads, nothing new here - and yet over and over on this board many posters have bitterly complained about siblings who got more assistant from parents. So - obviously - when parents do put that fair does not mean equal into practice it causes a lot of hurt feelings. I haven't seen any posters here happily say - I was stronger - or smarter - or more mature - or had better luck - than my sibling and they needed more parental financial assistance into adulthood. No - it is always with bitterness - and thoughts of being "punished" for being good - or the sibling being rewarded in some way. Even when saying - I did ok, or I have quite a lot of money, or I am very successful there is always a bitter edge - and the bitterness is mostly aimed at the sibling - rather than the parents. I haven't seen anyone that is ok with significant financial disparities while maintaining a really positive feeling towards both parents and sibling/s. It just doesn't happen - and while parents feel that they are helping the kid that needs it, the sibling left out can't seem to be ok with it. I don't know what is right or good - but that is what happens. Is it that siblings don't see the struggles their siblings may have - that the parents see and feel they need to pay money towards to help out but the ungifted sibling can't see the anxiety, depression, lack of intellect or sense or maturity that is making life tougher for the sibling. Maybe the harder working/more talented sibling doesn't want things equal - they want to be the "winner" so the parents evening things out is galling to them? Maybe the parents use fair does not mean equal to continue on with long running favoritism, and the unfavored child knows it? Except in this case it's the harder working son that was gifted first and it's the less motivated son that is of concern. Do you think that how other son will see it? Less motivated? So - other brother gets 6k? Because he smokes and hasn't been able to find a FT job brother deserves a lot of extra help and I get nothing? The only way this doesn't blow up is if he never finds out.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 1, 2020 17:34:47 GMT -5
I think your son's medical difficulties alone are enough to warrant help for him by you, with your money.
Attitudes and acting responsibly is another factor, but really you don't owe anyone an explanation about how you spend your money.
And....I say that after spending an hour looking at used cars because I gave my daughter a car for high school and it wouldn't be fair if I didn't do the same for my son, even though their situations are very different. So, take my advice with a few grains of salt. 🤪
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 17:51:32 GMT -5
Except in this case it's the harder working son that was gifted first and it's the less motivated son that is of concern. Do you think that how other son will see it? Less motivated? So - other brother gets 6k? Because he smokes and hasn't been able to find a FT job brother deserves a lot of extra help and I get nothing? The only way this doesn't blow up is if he never finds out. They are 25 and 27. The 25 y.o. went to school, works mostly full-time, and is the one who has seizures. The 27 y.o. prefers to smoke weed and has a problem with every job that exists, basically. He recently went out and bought an expensive phone rather than pay for the basic stuff they need for their house. And, part of my gift would likely end up buying expensive weed... (I don't object to weed, I just don't want to be paying for other people's weed when I won't go buy top shelf for myself...) His GF has a good job and pays for a lot of stuff and doesn't seem to have a problem with it. I think at some point she will, but that's not my issue. I do see the point of equity. The younger son knows he's not to talk about how much cash he received. The older son knew I was giving him some cash to replace his car since I was the one who chose to donate it to make my own life easier. I'm not going to give him 6K. I may give him 4K which is the difference between the value of the other son's car and his "gift". It's just hard because it's a lot of money and because I can see him coming to me in the future for a loan and might prefer to gift him cash then rather than potentially tell him no later.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 1, 2020 17:53:46 GMT -5
then it seems you know what you will do
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oped
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Post by oped on Feb 1, 2020 18:46:03 GMT -5
I liked Works for me because it was equal outcomes, with the least amount of 'blowable' money... Fix the other kids car... they both have functional cars for work. Give him 1500 which is about what other son will have to decide independently how to spend.... again, equal outcomes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 18:54:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure what I'd do honestly. I'm very much in the camp fair does not mean equal. Right now my kids don't get equal financial resources. One is in private school, one public, one gets spendy music lessons, one does not...I could go on and on. They also have different Dad's with different views on buying them crap, so one has tons of toys and video game consoles and games, the other just has what he bought himself at 16. I have two sets of parents. My mom and stepdad don't talk at all about any help they give my siblings. I'm pretty sure they've been helping out my one brother a lot since he had his knee replaced and I know my mom has given me money on occasion which my brothers had no clue about (I'm not sure even stepdad did!). We're all good and fine with this, but all three of us are hard working and don't expect handouts either. It is nice to know they have our back if the shit hits the fan though. My Dad and stepmom seem obsessed with keeping things equal. A couple years ago my dad discreetly slips me the envelope when I was visiting and they tell me my sister was having some problems with medical bills for her son and my brother needed help with the house downpayment so, "here you go". It was a check for 2K. No lie, I did a happy dance, but it just seemed weirder to me that they felt they owed me. I would have been just as happy with them keeping it and maybe doling it out when I was in a tough spot. I think it's a bit ironic that there is a strong "fair does not mean equal" commentary - here and other threads, nothing new here - and yet over and over on this board many posters have bitterly complained about siblings who got more assistant from parents. So - obviously - when parents do put that fair does not mean equal into practice it causes a lot of hurt feelings. I haven't seen any posters here happily say - I was stronger - or smarter - or more mature - or had better luck - than my sibling and they needed more parental financial assistance into adulthood. No - it is always with bitterness - and thoughts of being "punished" for being good - or the sibling being rewarded in some way. Even when saying - I did ok, or I have quite a lot of money, or I am very successful there is always a bitter edge - and the bitterness is mostly aimed at the sibling - rather than the parents. I haven't seen anyone that is ok with significant financial disparities while maintaining a really positive feeling towards both parents and sibling/s. It just doesn't happen - and while parents feel that they are helping the kid that needs it, the sibling left out can't seem to be ok with it. I don't know what is right or good - but that is what happens. Is it that siblings don't see the struggles their siblings may have - that the parents see and feel they need to pay money towards to help out but the ungifted sibling can't see the anxiety, depression, lack of intellect or sense or maturity that is making life tougher for the sibling. Maybe the harder working/more talented sibling doesn't want things equal - they want to be the "winner" so the parents evening things out is galling to them? Maybe the parents use fair does not mean equal to continue on with long running favoritism, and the unfavored child knows it? All I can comment on is my own situation. I have 5 siblings and we have all received different levels of financial support and it does not bother me in the slightest. How they gift their money to adult children is their choice and if I had a sibling that had issues like Shasta's son I would totally expect him to get more help. Some kids need parent assistance forever for no fault of their own. I haven't done the adult children thing yet, but I can see even with college that things could be way different. My older son is going to a state school and got tons of scholarships and grants. Depending on his final choice, it's conceivable that I hardly have to pay anything to get him through. His brother could be way different. I don't see him breezing through with straight A's in high school and scoring in the top 3% on his ACT like his brother did and I also could a lot more easily envision him going to a small LAC rather than a big state school. It could be a lot costlier getting him through college, but I'm not going to cut his brother a check for the difference...actually my hope is older son has money left over in his 529 to roll to his brother's account.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Feb 1, 2020 19:24:54 GMT -5
Shasta - do your sons get along or does older son already difficult with younger? Is their relationship is already sour based on the way the older son treats him and you?
As I read your question, I can picture how much money this is for you, and i dont want you to feel like you wasted it because he is highly likely to blow it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 19:42:50 GMT -5
Shasta - do your sons get along or does older son already difficult with younger? Is their relationship is already sour based on the way the older son treats him and you? As I read your question, I can picture how much money this is for you, and i dont want you to feel like you wasted it because he is highly likely to blow it. My sons get along okay but don't really have much of a relationship now that they no longer live in the same area. My younger son was friends with his brother's GF and one day she decided to get together with my older son and that didn't do a lot to help the situation. I don't picture them having much of a relationship as adults. There's been a lot of drama with my older son over the years.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 1, 2020 20:20:53 GMT -5
Except in this case it's the harder working son that was gifted first and it's the less motivated son that is of concern. Do you think that how other son will see it? Less motivated? So - other brother gets 6k? Because he smokes and hasn't been able to find a FT job brother deserves a lot of extra help and I get nothing? The only way this doesn't blow up is if he never finds out. Or maybe he will remember that mom had to kick him out of her house not all that long ago because he was abusive towards her? I am not so sure I would worry about it if my kid had behaved like that (yes I hold on to grudges, possibly too long), but if I did want to gift that DS money it would be " here is xx$ to fix your car and an additional $1500 just because. Love mom"
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gambler
Well-Known Member
"the education of a man is never completed until he dies" Robert E. Lee
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 16:39:24 GMT -5
Posts: 1,576
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Post by gambler on Feb 1, 2020 20:21:48 GMT -5
Open a 501(collage account put the 5k split). Can deposit each month if you like
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andi9899
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 6, 2011 10:22:29 GMT -5
Posts: 30,465
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 1, 2020 21:46:31 GMT -5
I keep things equal with my kids for the most part. I gift them each $100 and then buy them something to open for about $50 for each birthday/Christmas. Now that they're grown I don't have to buy 2 of everything because they'll be fighting otherwise. That's not to say that one has never gotten more than the other. Last month T1 was especially broke so I paid her student loan payment that month. I did it because I cosigned and she's not messing up my credit. I didn't run out and gift T2 the same amount of cash. I've told T2 that there are things I'll pay for if she needs. Doesn't mean I'm going to then immediately go and gift the same amount of cash to her sister. When they're grown "(S)he got more than me, no fair!" shouldn't really be an argument you should really be having IMO.
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