Trump did pretty well for about 2 years.......

[djAdvocate]

but the last year has been pretty awful for him, and for the US economy:

www.marketwatch.com/story/how-trumps-economy-went-from-rocket-ship-to-lead-balloon-2019-09-27

GDP growth, YOY, has fallen a full percent, and is now pretty much precisely where Obama was for all (8) years, including the two terrible ones of the great recession.

I am seriously concerned about the US economy, at this juncture.

anyone else?  or is everyone still insisting that we are having the best economy ever?

disclosure: I really like MarketWatch.  yes, I am biased. 

[djAdvocate]

this article has tons of facts in it, and is really short.
I would encourage anyone interested in the economy and investing to read it.
I have researched most of the things he says, and ttbomk, they are all true.

[thyme4change]

This doesn't help the conversation, but as a professional pessimist, I am always worried about the future economy.

You know how people say "This, too, shall pass" to comfort people going through hard times? I say it to warn people who are experiencing good times. Especially when we are talking about the economy.

[busymom]

I suspect the first 2 years he was riding the results of the Obama Administration.  Now, whatever happens, Trump owns it.  And I agree that I'm waiting for the stock market to take a dive. 



I just checked the "USdebtclock", and we're currently at over $70,000 per citizen, and over $187,000 per taxpayer.  Is the GOP still the party of financial responsibility?  I think not...  

[swamp]

Jan 22, 2020 8:54:01 GMT -5 busymom said:

I suspect the first 2 years he was riding the results of the Obama Administration.  Now, whatever happens, Trump owns it.  And I agree that I'm waiting for the stock market to take a dive. 



I just checked the "USdebtclock", and we're currently at over $70,000 per citizen, and over $187,000 per taxpayer.  Is the GOP still the party of financial responsibility?  I think not...  

I'm sure it will be Obama's fault. 

[Gardening Grandma]

Jan 22, 2020 8:54:01 GMT -5 busymom said:

I suspect the first 2 years he was riding the results of the Obama Administration.  .......... I'm waiting for the stock market to take a dive. 

I just checked the "USdebtclock", and we're currently at over $70,000 per citizen, and over $187,000 per taxpayer.  Is the GOP still the party of financial responsibility?  I think not...  

Spot on.

[OldCoyote]

Jan 22, 2020 2:58:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

but the last year has been pretty awful for him, and for the US economy:

www.marketwatch.com/story/how-trumps-economy-went-from-rocket-ship-to-lead-balloon-2019-09-27

GDP growth, YOY, has fallen a full percent, and is now pretty much precisely where Obama was for all (8) years, including the two terrible ones of the great recession.

I am seriously concerned about the US economy, at this juncture.

anyone else?  or is everyone still insisting that we are having the best economy ever?

disclosure: I really like MarketWatch.  yes, I am biased. 

Why would you be concerned over the U.S. economy, you are leaving, Right?

[thyme4change]

Jan 22, 2020 9:34:03 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jan 22, 2020 2:58:35 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

but the last year has been pretty awful for him, and for the US economy:

www.marketwatch.com/story/how-trumps-economy-went-from-rocket-ship-to-lead-balloon-2019-09-27

GDP growth, YOY, has fallen a full percent, and is now pretty much precisely where Obama was for all (8) years, including the two terrible ones of the great recession.

I am seriously concerned about the US economy, at this juncture.

anyone else?  or is everyone still insisting that we are having the best economy ever?

disclosure: I really like MarketWatch.  yes, I am biased. 

Why would you be concerned over the U.S. economy, you are leaving, Right?

The US economy has ripple effects all over the world economy. No good can come from the US going down the tubes.

[billisonboard]

Jan 22, 2020 8:54:01 GMT -5 busymom said:

I suspect the first 2 years he was riding the results of the Obama Administration.  Now, whatever happens, Trump owns it.  And I agree that I'm waiting for the stock market to take a dive. 



I just checked the "USdebtclock", and we're currently at over $70,000 per citizen, and over $187,000 per taxpayer.  Is the GOP still the party of financial responsibility?  I think not...  

There was also the short term stimulus of tax cuts.

[laterbloomer]

Jan 22, 2020 8:54:01 GMT -5 busymom said:

I suspect the first 2 years he was riding the results of the Obama Administration.  Now, whatever happens, Trump owns it.  And I agree that I'm waiting for the stock market to take a dive. 



I just checked the "USdebtclock", and we're currently at over $70,000 per citizen, and over $187,000 per taxpayer.  Is the GOP still the party of financial responsibility?  I think not...  

I just checked Canada's debtclock and it says my share is $18,835. I gather that's the per citizen amount. We are doing way better than you guys that way.

[laterbloomer]

Jan 22, 2020 11:33:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 22, 2020 10:58:31 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I just checked Canada's debtclock and it says my share is $18,835. I gather that's the per citizen amount. We are doing way better than you guys that way.

Yeah but you just got over 4' of snow in Newfie.  I was almost crying just watching the video clips.  

I was listing to an interview with a resident of NL and it was unintentionally one of the funniest things I've heard in a while. First you have the fun of the accent. Then he kept saying "we aren't afraid of snow, it's the stuff that comes with it" well ya...and then he was suddenly saying how terrible Trump is. The interviewer couldn't get the interview back on track about the blizzard 

[dezii]

Jan 22, 2020 10:18:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jan 22, 2020 9:34:03 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Why would you be concerned over the U.S. economy, you are leaving, Right?

The US economy has ripple effects all over the world economy. No good can come from the US going down the tubes.

A good example, modern times, if one consider 90 years modern times...till the US recession, world was doing ok, relatively..

Weimar republic in Germany was chugging along , even with the monstrous debt owed to the French and Brits and other countries as reparations for WW1 that were signed at Versailles...then the market collapsed in the States and besides the loser jumping out windows...German economy collapsed...within a year people were wheeling loads of banknotes to purchase a loaf of bread and the Adolf was being listened to as Germanys savior.  

[djAdvocate]

Jan 22, 2020 10:18:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jan 22, 2020 9:34:03 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Why would you be concerned over the U.S. economy, you are leaving, Right?

The US economy has ripple effects all over the world economy. No good can come from the US going down the tubes.

yes, and then there is the unfortunate truth that I have two businesses that I am planning on keeping, 90% of whose revenue comes from US businesses.

now, mind you, both are B2B businesses. but ultimately, they depend on the US economy.

so, yeah, my personal assets are tied to the US economy for the forseeable future.

my INCOME is a bit more independent, but that is another matter.

[happyhoix]

Jan 22, 2020 8:43:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

This doesn't help the conversation, but as a professional pessimist, I am always worried about the future economy.

You know how people say "This, too, shall pass" to comfort people going through hard times? I say it to warn people who are experiencing good times. Especially when we are talking about the economy.

I've been on the edge of my seat since the guy got elected, worried he'll start WWIII. 

If he only crashes our economy instead of getting us destroyed in a nuclear holocaust I'll be pleased as shit. 

[weltschmerz]

Jan 22, 2020 11:33:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 22, 2020 10:58:31 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I just checked Canada's debtclock and it says my share is $18,835. I gather that's the per citizen amount. We are doing way better than you guys that way.

Yeah but you just got over 4' of snow in Newfie.  I was almost crying just watching the video clips.  

Me too. It broke my heart. 
However, I couldn't believe how good-natured most people were about it, and managed to find a smile or a laugh.

[dezii]

Jan 23, 2020 19:26:22 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jan 22, 2020 11:33:21 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Yeah but you just got over 4' of snow in Newfie.  I was almost crying just watching the video clips.  

Me too. It broke my heart. 
However, I couldn't believe how good-natured most people were about it, and managed to find a smile or a laugh.

Is that correct..I zipped through the post but realized it was 4 ft of snow at one time...is that a record...those poor folks...have to google..

[weltschmerz]

Jan 24, 2020 0:47:06 GMT -5 dezii said:

Jan 23, 2020 19:26:22 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Me too. It broke my heart. 
However, I couldn't believe how good-natured most people were about it, and managed to find a smile or a laugh.

Is that correct..I zipped through the post but realized it was 4 ft of snow at one time...is that a record...those poor folks...have to google..

It was horrific, dezii. People were trapped in their homes for 5 days and the army had to sent in.

[weltschmerz]

[thyme4change]

Jan 24, 2020 1:41:59 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

That is terrible, and scary...and a little hilarious and adorable.

I guess having those puppy training pads on hand at all times has some purpose.

[busymom]

Jan 23, 2020 19:24:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jan 22, 2020 8:43:10 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

This doesn't help the conversation, but as a professional pessimist, I am always worried about the future economy.

You know how people say "This, too, shall pass" to comfort people going through hard times? I say it to warn people who are experiencing good times. Especially when we are talking about the economy.

I've been on the edge of my seat since the guy got elected, worried he'll start WWIII. 

If he only crashes our economy instead of getting us destroyed in a nuclear holocaust I'll be pleased as shit. 

    Nah, I'll still be PO'd if he crashes the economy.  Retirement is getting closer, and I don't feel like there's enough years ahead to regain any losses.  My own money is mostly "safe", but DH has a lot in the stock market.  

[thyme4change]

Gotta admit - he has kept it pretty steady. I hope the pressure he put on keeping interest rates ridiculously low doesn't come back at us in the future. I hope cutting taxes doesn't hurt us in the long run. I hope the deficit can continue to be serviced. And I hope the tariffs and new trade agreements do what he said they would.

I will be fair and say those are questions we should ask under any Presidency.

[Deleted]

Jan 24, 2020 9:18:55 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 24, 2020 8:43:28 GMT -5 busymom said:

    Nah, I'll still be PO'd if he crashes the economy.  Retirement is getting closer, and I don't feel like there's enough years ahead to regain any losses.  My own money is mostly "safe", but DH has a lot in the stock market.  

EXACTLY!  Steady as she goes is what we NEED for our population, aging and benefiting from slow, steady return and lack of hyper inflation.  Or maybe I am speaking for myself......

Are you sure your not a conservative ?  

[dondub]

Jan 24, 2020 20:55:40 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 24, 2020 14:03:40 GMT -5 @x said:

Are you sure your not a conservative ?  

I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.  I am not at all fond of our foreign policy, but realize that some of my views in that regard are somewhat utopian. 

So what the hell DOES that make me?  

That’s a darn good question as it fits so many of ‘us’. Perhaps that’s why I’m an independent but the righties think I’m a leftie. They won’t discuss fiscal conservatism anymore so all they see is the socially liberal aspect and the non interventionist.

One might think we need a centrist party with aspects of both ledgers. Good luck huh.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 24, 2020 10:13:54 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Gotta admit - he has kept it pretty steady. I hope the pressure he put on keeping interest rates ridiculously low doesn't come back at us in the future. I hope cutting taxes doesn't hurt us in the long run. I hope the deficit can continue to be serviced. And I hope the tariffs and new trade agreements do what he said they would.

I will be fair and say those are questions we should ask under any Presidency.

the economy has been remarkably steady in the post crash period.

it has also been remarkably slow, failing to sustain even a 3% growth pace.

I am actually not sure it is such a bad thing. but Trump thinks it is.

[dondub]

 Oh how many times have I heard about the slow Obama recovery from those on the right. Of course they never mention the BushCo. Crash as having been almost as bad as the Repo depression in 1929. But, well, you know, him being Black and all...

[busymom]

Jan 24, 2020 20:55:40 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 24, 2020 14:03:40 GMT -5 @x said:

Are you sure your not a conservative ?  

I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.  I am not at all fond of our foreign policy, but realize that some of my views in that regard are somewhat utopian. 

So what the hell DOES that make me?  

    A moderate.  Welcome to the party!  

[thyme4change]

Jan 24, 2020 20:55:40 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Jan 24, 2020 14:03:40 GMT -5 @x said:

Are you sure your not a conservative ?  

I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.  I am not at all fond of our foreign policy, but realize that some of my views in that regard are somewhat utopian. 

So what the hell DOES that make me?  

After saying I was social liberal / fiscal conservative all these years, I am struggling with that definition, especially with the radical left taking over the democrats.

I believe, for sure, in liberties like abortion(no discussion here), gay marriage, gender and racial equality, etc. But what about declaring health care a right, therefore providing government funds, or helping out the poor through government programs, and such like that. If being socially liberal means changing tax policies and social programs to help the least fortunate, how does that marry with fiscal conservatism?

Saying you are part of a huge group that is social liberal, fiscal conservative needs way more definition to me to make any sense.

Since I couldn't figure it out, I just dropped the conservative part - I really don't want the new stench of that word anywhere near me at this point anyway.

[tallguy]

Jan 26, 2020 0:03:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jan 24, 2020 20:55:40 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.  I am not at all fond of our foreign policy, but realize that some of my views in that regard are somewhat utopian. 

So what the hell DOES that make me?  

After saying I was social liberal / fiscal conservative all these years, I am struggling with that definition, especially with the radical left taking over the democrats.

I believe, for sure, in liberties like abortion(no discussion here), gay marriage, gender and racial equality, etc. But what about declaring health care a right, therefore providing government funds, or helping out the poor through government programs, and such like that. If being socially liberal means changing tax policies and social programs to help the least fortunate, how does that marry with fiscal conservatism?

Saying you are part of a huge group that is social liberal, fiscal conservative needs way more definition to me to make any sense.

Since I couldn't figure it out, I just dropped the conservative part - I really don't want the new stench of that word anywhere near me at this point anyway.

I stick with the definition I came up with many years ago:

I believe that every individual in this country has the right to live their life pretty much any way they want to, as long as they do not infringe on the rights of anyone else to do the same. What they do NOT have is the right to expect anyone else pay for their choices.

And no, I do not equate "socially liberal" with "throwing a whole bunch of money at stuff."  I consider it to be a belief in individual rights and liberties.  It also necessarily entails equal treatment under the law...for all.  I have said before that those two things are the twin pillars of my political belief system.  All of my positions are based on how they comport with those two ideas, and anything that violates either is inherently wrong. 

[thyme4change]

Jan 26, 2020 0:53:53 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jan 26, 2020 0:03:21 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

After saying I was social liberal / fiscal conservative all these years, I am struggling with that definition, especially with the radical left taking over the democrats.

I believe, for sure, in liberties like abortion(no discussion here), gay marriage, gender and racial equality, etc. But what about declaring health care a right, therefore providing government funds, or helping out the poor through government programs, and such like that. If being socially liberal means changing tax policies and social programs to help the least fortunate, how does that marry with fiscal conservatism?

Saying you are part of a huge group that is social liberal, fiscal conservative needs way more definition to me to make any sense.

Since I couldn't figure it out, I just dropped the conservative part - I really don't want the new stench of that word anywhere near me at this point anyway.

I stick with the definition I came up with many years ago:

I believe that every individual in this country has the right to live their life pretty much any way they want to, as long as they do not infringe on the rights of anyone else to do the same. What they do NOT have is the right to expect anyone else pay for their choices.

And no, I do not equate "socially liberal" with "throwing a whole bunch of money at stuff."  I consider it to be a belief in individual rights and liberties.  It also necessarily entails equal treatment under the law...for all.  I have said before that those two things are the twin pillars of my political belief system.  All of my positions are based on how they comport with those two ideas, and anything that violates either is inherently wrong. 

So, question. Basic healthcare, minimal food, and some shelter is or is not a human right?

[happyhoix]

I don't think being socially liberal means 'throwing money' at a problem. We spend a lot of money on social network programs but we don't do it well - we could do a much better job at it, and spend less money overall. For instance, if you work too much and earn too much money, you lose your welfare benefits. That's the dumbest policy ever. They need to be redesigned to encourage people to become more employable, not to do less to avoid getting paid too much. 

There should be a guaranteed, basic healthcare provided to all citizens - but we can pay for that by reining in all the corporate welfare systems. All the loopholes and tax breaks that let wealthy people and large companies slip out of paying their fair share of taxes need to be closed. US taxpayers should not be providing welfare benefits to Walmart employees because Walmart choses not to pay their employees a living wage. 

Then there is the money we throw at the military - there's a ton of boondoggle and waste taking place there, but since it's the military and not welfare queens benefiting, conservatives seem to be fine with that. That's not fine.