Trump Ignores Experts. (Again)

[weltschmerz]

Trump ignores Pentagon advice and intervenes in military war crimes cases

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump ignored Pentagon advice Friday and pardoned two service members, while also restoring the rank of a third after all faced war crimes allegations.



Trump granted full pardons to Army 1st Lt. Clint Lorance and Army Major Mathew Golsteyn, and restored the rank of Navy SEAL Eddie R. Gallagher, who had been demoted.

www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/trump-war-crimes-intervenes/index.html

That's right. War crimes? No problem!

[dondub]

Oops! Accessory after the fact.

[billisonboard]

When I read about this, I thought of AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP 's post about President Trump doing things "normal Americans" would do (link). War crimes are what the other side engages in, not red-blooded Americans who are fighting terrorists (in spite of what a US military court might determine from listening to the facts of an event and ruling it a crime).

[countrygirl2]

The commanders had asked him not to do that. Esper, even asked him not to, they are concerned about effect on military command.  But he did it anyway.

Several of us on a liber prepper site have our paranoid ideas of why.  First of all we all think trump is taking direction from putin to destroy our country from within, in any way possible. He even basically gave a whole military base in Syria to the Russians.

We are theorizing that by doing things like this he is going to attract extremists and far right in the military to him.  When he declares marshall law down the road, he will have such as these guys supporting him. Likely about the time the government shuts down again.  It will start to tear the military command apart as they take sides. It is somewhat far fetched. Some of those guys committed atrocities.  This is something he should not have interfered with.  Not good.

The repubs are as responsible as can be contributing to the demise of this country by not stopping him.

Once he has decided the senate won't impeach him there is absolutely no stopping him, he is after absolute power.  

[weltschmerz]

Perhaps the mods could merge this with the thread I started earlier today.

ymam.proboards.com/thread/61471/trump-ignores-experts-again

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Captain "bone spurs" knows more then the generals. 

[busymom]

Since we've got a number of extended family members in the military, I do have a problem with those pardons.  We don't want anyone serving to think they can do anything, since they're above the law...  

[weltschmerz]

Nov 16, 2019 19:44:15 GMT -5 busymom said:

Since we've got a number of extended family members in the military, I do have a problem with those pardons.  We don't want anyone serving to think they can do anything, since they're above the law...  

American allies certainly will no longer want the American military on their soil. Why have them there, if they're going to commit human rights violations and then get pardoned by the moron in charge?

[countrygirl2]

I didn't realize you had started one. Merge away!

[Gardening Grandma]

It’s a slap in the face to every veteran who has honorably served.

[happyhoix]

It's a slap in the face to these soldier's commanders who advocated for these men to get sentenced for their crimes.

[billisonboard]

Nov 16, 2019 21:30:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

It's a slap in the face to these soldier's commanders who advocated for these men to get sentenced for their crimes.

And those in uniform who prosecuted the cases and those in uniform who found them guilty. OldCoyote talks about how police need to be held accountable. He should be all over President Trump for excusing theses crimes  after those involved were convicted.

[Tennesseer]

If nothing else, it sends a horrible message to the other counties of the world: it's okay to not hold your citizens accountable for war crimes.

[OldCoyote]

Nov 17, 2019 10:04:42 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 16, 2019 21:30:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

It's a slap in the face to these soldier's commanders who advocated for these men to get sentenced for their crimes.

And those in uniform who prosecuted the cases and those in uniform who found them guilty. OldCoyote talks about how police need to be held accountable. He should be all over President Trump for excusing theses crimes  after those involved were convicted.

Are you kidding I am still pissed over him pardoning Sheriff Joe!

[thyme4change]

It concerns me greatly how much his disregards experts and qualified advisors. I don't claim to know the right thing to do in most circumstances, but having leaders who consistently ignore people who have spent a lifetime knowing the subject generally does not have great outcomes.

[Gardening Grandma]

Nov 17, 2019 10:16:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If nothing else, it sends a horrible message to the other counties of the world: it's okay to not hold your citizens accountable for war crimes.

It also sends the message that American POWs need not be held under the Geneva conventions.

[happyhoix]

Nov 17, 2019 11:06:53 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

It concerns me greatly how much his disregards experts and qualified advisors. I don't claim to know the right thing to do in most circumstances, but having leaders who consistently ignore people who have spent a lifetime knowing the subject generally does not have great outcomes.

Look at his entire foreign policy track record. Behaving like a bull in the china shop, ignoring what American experts, our allies, experts in the military and the state department all have to say.

Stupid people think they know all there is to know about everything. Which is fine, if he's your crazy uncle who spouts off his weird ideas at Thankgiving. Not so much when it's the POTUS.

[dezii]

Nov 16, 2019 14:20:13 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

When I read about this, I thought of AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP 's post about President Trump doing things "normal Americans" would do (link). War crimes are what the other side engages in, not red-blooded Americans who are fighting terrorists (in spite of what a US military court might determine from listening to the facts of an event and ruling it a crime).

You have basically young, in some cases very young folks..

{male and female today} 

armed and trained with the worlds most dangerous weapons, in  violent  neighborhoods ...trained to respond violently to any incursion or even suggested incursion...with close buddies being hurt or worse...and the wanting to strike back is always present only stopped by training and to be honest control of superiors..non commissioned for the most part..officers if needed...

When troops are brought up on charges they are judged by peers, for the most part those who have experienced the same environment the accused have..

Granted these military trials can be influenced by the feelings of the commanding senior officer{s} of the units doing the trial but they too are being observed and judged..

To get involved and undercut the suggestions of the senior  military commanders by the POTUS , even if he/she is the commander in chief...unless extreme reason for...not too bright...or smart...but since when does bright and smart resonance with our current POTUS.

[dezii]

Nov 16, 2019 19:31:53 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

The commanders had asked him not to do that. Esper, even asked him not to, they are concerned about effect on military command.  But he did it anyway.

Several of us on a liber prepper site have our paranoid ideas of why.  First of all we all think trump is taking direction from putin to destroy our country from within, in any way possible. He even basically gave a whole military base in Syria to the Russians.

We are theorizing that by doing things like this he is going to attract extremists and far right in the military to him.  When he declares marshall law down the road, he will have such as these guys supporting him. Likely about the time the government shuts down again.  It will start to tear the military command apart as they take sides. It is somewhat far fetched. Some of those guys committed atrocities.  This is something he should not have interfered with.  Not good.

The repubs are as responsible as can be contributing to the demise of this country by not stopping him.

Once he has decided the senate won't impeach him there is absolutely no stopping him, he is after absolute power.  

There will not be a country being torn apart and our military being torn apart...If there are some extremist who attempt organized resistance ala Trump....they will be quickly put down, crushed by local forces...National Guardsman...US Marshalls...Reg US forces will not be needed...

[countrygirl2]

Hubs says the same, and I hope both of you are right.  But there are a lot of extremists from the military, look at Flynn, Bolton, guys like that.  You just never know how many would immediately go in that direction.  

NO ONE is stopping trump, he just keeps doing more and more pulling all power to him and it cannot continue. He has gotten rid of many advisors, whittled down agencies, does not listen to anyone.  The rep senate could still stop him.  If he gets by with all he is doing do you really think he is going to pull back? A fantasy to me.  

He is on the route to dictatorship.

It is looking up, dems in Virginia, one in Kentucky, another in Louisiana.  They may be red but they obviously are not totally so. I think the house will stay dem, over 20 or 30 repubs quitting. But the senate, not sure so much gerrymandering would be a surprise. But if mcconnell is out and trump gets in, they might get someone else to thwart him.   

[billisonboard]

Nov 17, 2019 13:57:41 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

.... But the senate, not sure so much gerrymandering would be a surprise. ...

FWIW, gerrymandering has zero impact on US Senate raceS.

[dezii]

Nov 17, 2019 14:44:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 17, 2019 13:57:41 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

.... But the senate, not sure so much gerrymandering would be a surprise. ...

FWIW, gerrymandering has zero impact on US Senate raceS.

Each State gets two...six year terms...terms do NOT run together...thus only one is up for reelection at a time...unless there is say a special election...to fill vacated seat...retired, death etc...very rare to happen.

In fact, on second thought , not sure if I am correct there...anyone know for sure please chime in.

[billisonboard]

Nov 17, 2019 14:50:39 GMT -5 dezii said:

Nov 17, 2019 14:44:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

FWIW, gerrymandering has zero impact on US Senate raceS.

Each State gets two...six year terms...terms do NOT run together...thus only one is up for reelection at a time...unless there is say a special election...to fill vacated seat...retired, death etc...very rare to happen.

In fact, on second thought , not sure if I am correct there...anyone know for sure please chime in.

You are correct. But not sure why you quoted me here.

[Value Buy]

Nov 16, 2019 19:31:53 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

The commanders had asked him not to do that. Esper, even asked him not to, they are concerned about effect on military command.  But he did it anyway.

Several of us on a liber prepper site have our paranoid ideas of why.  First of all we all think trump is taking direction from putin to destroy our country from within, in any way possible. He even basically gave a whole military base in Syria to the Russians.

We are theorizing that by doing things like this he is going to attract extremists and far right in the military to him.  When he declares marshall law down the road, he will have such as these guys supporting him. Likely about the time the government shuts down again.  It will start to tear the military command apart as they take sides. It is somewhat far fetched. Some of those guys committed atrocities.  This is something he should not have interfered with.  Not good.

The repubs are as responsible as can be contributing to the demise of this country by not stopping him.

Once he has decided the senate won't impeach him there is absolutely no stopping him, he is after absolute power.  

This explanation explains a heck of a lot on your thought process......

[countrygirl2]

Did not even think about gerrymandering not effecting the senate, it does in the house. I stand corrected.

[countrygirl2]

Value Buy, he is taking direction from putin, he kisses the guys butt daily. He acts like trump is a rock star. Since they kept him from going bankrupt, he owes them big time.  Read his history if  you don't believe that. He was almost done in the 2000's till they came to his rescue.


I don't trust him any further then I could throw him, and couldn't move that fat so and so.  


By the way they said after his partial physical he is now officially obese, LOL!


I imagine after repub defeats in those states he likely about had a heart attack and mental breakdown, probably blood pressure though the roof, so needed checked out.  They need to check him mentally.

[thyme4change]

I love ya CG, but I have noticed that you have gotten pretty pessimistic since Trump took office. Now that I see you are on a lib prepper forum, my opinion....maybe you should take a break. You are kinda as extreme as some of the right wingers, and I'm not sure it is an entirely healthy place to be - for them, for you or for our country. Everything will be okay. Maybe you are getting a little too much fear based propaganda. Maybe just a little distance will help?

[dezii]

Nov 17, 2019 16:29:29 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 16, 2019 19:31:53 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

The commanders had asked him not to do that. Esper, even asked him not to, they are concerned about effect on military command.  But he did it anyway.

Several of us on a liber prepper site have our paranoid ideas of why.  First of all we all think trump is taking direction from putin to destroy our country from within, in any way possible. He even basically gave a whole military base in Syria to the Russians.

We are theorizing that by doing things like this he is going to attract extremists and far right in the military to him.  When he declares marshall law down the road, he will have such as these guys supporting him. Likely about the time the government shuts down again.  It will start to tear the military command apart as they take sides. It is somewhat far fetched. Some of those guys committed atrocities.  This is something he should not have interfered with.  Not good.

The repubs are as responsible as can be contributing to the demise of this country by not stopping him.

Once he has decided the senate won't impeach him there is absolutely no stopping him, he is after absolute power.  

This explanation explains a heck of a lot on your thought process......

There was a article the other day that touched on how Trump ordered our Navy NOT  to send it's ship into the Black Sea...it would p off the Russians...they have been doing it periodically to show the flag..Black Sea is a open sea open to all...not a Russian Lake...Keeps Putin happy...Just saying.

Oops....correction...that report was incorrect...Trump according to the Navy never gave such a order and it's freedom of navigation sailing is alive and well...{did a quick google}
------------------------------------------------------
www.stripes.com/news/europe/navy-says-it-never-got-a-trump-order-to-stop-patrols-in-black-sea-1.607116