haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 19, 2019 20:23:29 GMT -5
Damn! The clock appears to be ticking just as fast, or possibly faster, than I had feared. Also, there doesn't appear to be much to prevent one of your neighbors from planting your land with starts from greenhouses on contiguous land. The only thing that they can really lose is labor, and they appear loaded with that.
The folks that are suggesting that you take the cash and carry a (worthless) second mortgage might be right.
I'm still confused as to why Chinese-backed buyers want to buy land in a Hmong-controlled area. Sounds to me like they might straw buyers for one of the Hmong groups.
FWIW, I am an absolutely shitty negotiator and I hate conflict and unknown risks. It shocks the hell out of me that there are other folks who appear to understand the situation much better than myself that are advising you to take the cash and carry the (worthless and possibly entangling) second mortgage. I'm almost always the biggest scarddy-cat.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Dec 19, 2019 20:50:45 GMT -5
The alternative is the crap shoot of getting a new buyer and risking they make me a low-ball offer.
You can say 'no' to a low-ball offer. If they want your land that bad, the prospective buyer will come up with a better offer. I agree with others though ............ don't carry a note on the land. To me it's a losing option and no good will come of it.
Hoping for the best for you ............... hugs
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 22:32:09 GMT -5
Damn! The clock appears to be ticking just as fast, or possibly faster, than I had feared. Also, there doesn't appear to be much to prevent one of your neighbors from planting your land with starts from greenhouses on contiguous land. The only thing that they can really lose is labor, and they appear loaded with that.
The folks that are suggesting that you take the cash and carry a (worthless) second mortgage might be right.
I'm still confused as to why Chinese-backed buyers want to buy land in a Hmong-controlled area. Sounds to me like they might straw buyers for one of the Hmong groups.
FWIW, I am an absolutely shitty negotiator and I hate conflict and unknown risks. It shocks the hell out of me that there are other folks who appear to understand the situation much better than myself that are advising you to take the cash and carry the (worthless and possibly entangling) second mortgage. I'm almost always the biggest scarddy-cat.
Their contract extension ends tomorrow. My agent messaged me the buyer is still trying to secure some financing and she "hopes" to have more info tomorrow. I instructed her to issue a 3-day notice to perform if it isn't forthcoming and asked the title company in the same message to prepare the paperwork for me to get their deposit I am legally entitled to if they don't perform in 3 days. The escrow officer suggested I consult with an atty and mortgage broker and think seriously before carrying paper for this buyer. Another words, don't do it unless you are willing to lose whatever you carry. What I heard is the Chinese buyer saw all the money being generated in the neighborhood with no risk from the law and decided to move in on their territory. They came in hard and offered people just about whatever they wanted in order to secure deals and block the Hmong buyers from getting the property they wanted. Mine was included as were many of my neighbors. When I Googled the buyer they own pot dispensaries in So. CA and it looks like they plan to illegally grow to sell there. This type of growing isn't legal for dispensaries, but they also have federal prison records online, so I assume they are a criminal and don't care. Have I said recently I really want out of my 'hood?..........
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Dec 20, 2019 0:00:20 GMT -5
How would carrying the note affect liability? I know in Indiana, the seller is still the actual property owner until the debt is paid-in-full. I wouldn't want those people near any property I still had an interest in.
What if you offered to split the difference with them? Maybe they could come up with another $35k in cash and you could be done with them?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 0:48:00 GMT -5
How would carrying the note affect liability? I know in Indiana, the seller is still the actual property owner until the debt is paid-in-full. I wouldn't want those people near any property I still had an interest in. What if you offered to split the difference with them? Maybe they could come up with another $35k in cash and you could be done with them? Well, if you get a loan from BofA, I don't assume they are liable for what happens on the land. I don't know why it would be any different in this situation. Especially since my note would be secondary to their hard money loan. But, I really don't know. I will be living out of state, so not sure what could happen to me anyway. There's a reason all the growers register their properties to "relatives" out of state. That way when they get raided and there is no one present on the site no one is ever prosecuted for the gardens. (The growers are only on their properties at night when the law apparently doesn't work... During the day they gather at houses they buy where they sleep/shower/eat/etc... Nearly all the sheriff's reports of busts mention no one was present on the site when they chopped the grows and the out-of-state owner may be cited. Not sure what kind of bite an out-of-state "citation" would have. I believe due to the legalization in CA it is now a misdemeanor to grow, it's no longer a felony unless you have minor children or firearms onsite.) At this point, they have until Monday to secure funding and close. If they can't I get their deposit. If they can but need me to make up the difference, I won't know until then what that amount will be. The amount will determine what I choose to do. There's a big difference between $35K and 70K. I'd be okay with losing the former but not the latter.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Dec 20, 2019 6:10:14 GMT -5
Things work much differently out there than they do here. I can't imagine living in an area where law enforcement is so lax.
Well, good luck with everything. Hopefully, they will get it together and come through on everything, including securing all the financing so you can sell the place and move on.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 20, 2019 7:22:25 GMT -5
How would carrying the note affect liability? I know in Indiana, the seller is still the actual property owner until the debt is paid-in-full. I wouldn't want those people near any property I still had an interest in. What if you offered to split the difference with them? Maybe they could come up with another $35k in cash and you could be done with them? Probably has to do with dealing with a drug cartel. I have a feeling they don't play by the same rules applied in most places. 7 out of 8 properties apparently owned by them and now No. 8 becomes hard to finance?
Having said all that dribble, I admit that I still haven't spent the time to read thru every post here so I may have everything totally wrong in my reply so take it with a grain of itty bitty tiny little grain of salt.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Dec 20, 2019 9:09:25 GMT -5
Shasta - I know you need, want, and deserve the highest asking price you can get for this property. However, I would hate to see you have any remaining ties to it given the environment, circumstances, and people involved. My gut says take whatever you can get in cash and move on. I don't want to see you stuck there longer or pulled into some kind of legal or liability mess if something goes wrong. Yes, it sucks that you get a bum deal yet again, but I really don't see another way around it. Your safety and mental health is way more important than money.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 11:01:27 GMT -5
Things work much differently out there than they do here. I can't imagine living in an area where law enforcement is so lax. Well, good luck with everything. Hopefully, they will get it together and come through on everything, including securing all the financing so you can sell the place and move on. Thank you. A big problem was many of the original owners of property in our POA were out-of-state and only about 10% of the properties were inhabited due to the remoteness, groundwater problems, etc... And, many of us in the US are pro-cannabis and would like to see it 100% legalized to get the cartels out of our forests and to stop all this black market growing. So, when those of us who lived in the area started asking (begging) for law enforcement support when they only had about 50 grow sites, we got no support from other people in the area hearing "it's just weed" and "who cares if they are growing out in the redneck area". Now that more people care because it's encroaching on their own properties, no one, including law enforcement, can stop it because they own so much land and have so many grows. Which was their stated plan all along. Law enforcement used to talk about bringing in the National Guard to abate the area, but the growers are bringing in so much money to our impoverished county that they are essentially indirectly now paying off law enforcement. So, there's some talk of trying to fight the problem but little action.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 11:12:43 GMT -5
Shasta - I know you need, want, and deserve the highest asking price you can get for this property. However, I would hate to see you have any remaining ties to it given the environment, circumstances, and people involved. My gut says take whatever you can get in cash and move on. I don't want to see you stuck there longer or pulled into some kind of legal or liability mess if something goes wrong. Yes, it sucks that you get a bum deal yet again, but I really don't see another way around it. Your safety and mental health is way more important than money. Thank you. I do want to completely separate myself from the area and move on for my own mental health. My agent is sending a 3-day notice to perform today. They have until Monday to secure financing or I will go after their deposit. The escrow agent sent me a message late last night saying the buyer's lender contacted them and is re-writing their loan papers based upon the appraisal results but no one knows for how much. Until we see what the amount is, I can't make any decisions. If they end up with a loan of 50% appraised value plus the cash they have already committed to, that puts the deal 51K over appraised value. Since I'm fine with that number, I will likely accept the carry but not count on ever seeing the cash. What I do get will be a bonus and I won't pursue a foreclosure if they don't pay. It seems stupid to just leave that on the table and walk away.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 17:51:47 GMT -5
Thank you to each and every one of you who have given your thoughts and opinions on this thread. I very much appreciate it because it has helped me think through what I do and don't want to happen moving forward. My buyer was sent a cancellation notice today and told I am not screwing around, find the cash by Monday or lose your deposit. They now have secured all but 40K of their offer price. (It's about 60K over appraisal.) We gave them until Monday to come up with the rest and they claim they are trying to do so. On Monday afternoon if they are still low, we will close at whatever number they do have but we will let them sweat it out until then. This mess is going to close and I am happy with the number even if it stays where it currently is. Shit, now I have to find a vehicle and a new house!
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Dec 20, 2019 18:45:44 GMT -5
Happy this is moving forward More happy that you won’t need to live near or be involved with these dangerous people
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Dec 20, 2019 18:46:40 GMT -5
It sounds like you are making some progress with them.
I, too, know you really need (and deserve!) all the money you can get from the sale. What I was thinking was that if you could at least get more cash up front, it might be possible for you to just move on.
Got my fingers crossed for you. Hopefully you can get everything worked out this upcoming week.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 20, 2019 19:56:19 GMT -5
Thank you to each and every one of you who have given your thoughts and opinions on this thread. I very much appreciate it because it has helped me think through what I do and don't want to happen moving forward. My buyer was sent a cancellation notice today and told I am not screwing around, find the cash by Monday or lose your deposit. They now have secured all but 40K of their offer price. (It's about 60K over appraisal.) We gave them until Monday to come up with the rest and they claim they are trying to do so. On Monday afternoon if they are still low, we will close at whatever number they do have but we will let them sweat it out until then. This mess is going to close and I am happy with the number even if it stays where it currently is. Shit, now I have to find a vehicle and a new house! Shasta, I want you out of there for your own safety. People do care about you. Hope they come up with the rest of the money.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 20:16:46 GMT -5
They just asked for an extension until 1/10 and we told them no. Then they asked if I would carry 50K and we repeated the no.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 22:27:12 GMT -5
They just asked for an extension until 1/10 and we told them no. Then they asked if I would carry 50K and we repeated the no. Way to go!!!!
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Dec 21, 2019 4:15:39 GMT -5
Shasta - those "NOs" sound mighty good coming from you! You obviously have learned something that I've been working on - NO is a complete sentence so kudos to you. I'm not a gambler but I'd bet that they will find the money to close on Monday - my rough calculations indicate that $40K is less then 15%.
I wonder if the fact that the RE Agent failed to position back up offers contributed to the buyers thinking that they could take their time assembling their end of the deal and that you all would work with them to close. I have a place I want to sell this spring so I've been following your progress and that of Chiver in order to learn all that I can.
I can hardly wait to see which vehicle and what house you buy!
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Dec 21, 2019 6:54:21 GMT -5
Shasta - those "NOs" sound mighty good coming from you! You obviously have learned something that I've been working on - NO is a complete sentence so kudos to you. I'm not a gambler but I'd bet that they will find the money to close on Monday - my rough calculations indicate that $40K is less then 15%. I wonder if the fact that the RE Agent failed to position back up offers contributed to the buyers thinking that they could take their time assembling their end of the deal and that you all would work with them to close. I have a place I want to sell this spring so I've been following your progress and that of Chiver in order to learn all that I can. I can hardly wait to see which vehicle and what house you buy! I think the agent, buyer and appraiser well all in this screw up together!! But I love conspiracies so we know what my opinion is worth. I just hope it all gets worked out to @shastasnewlife satisfaction since that is all that really matters, bottom line. And she takes her time before purchasing the next property and doesn't wind up in another area wanted by "growers" It's a crap shoot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 11:40:08 GMT -5
Shasta - those "NOs" sound mighty good coming from you! You obviously have learned something that I've been working on - NO is a complete sentence so kudos to you. I'm not a gambler but I'd bet that they will find the money to close on Monday - my rough calculations indicate that $40K is less then 15%. I wonder if the fact that the RE Agent failed to position back up offers contributed to the buyers thinking that they could take their time assembling their end of the deal and that you all would work with them to close. I have a place I want to sell this spring so I've been following your progress and that of Chiver in order to learn all that I can. I can hardly wait to see which vehicle and what house you buy! No felt amazing. It's also kind of satisfying knowing they are scrambling for once rather than me. They were "too cheap" to order a survey to install a barbed wire fence, so I think they will do all they can to protect their deposit. That's the goal anyway. I have a neighbor who owns 5 parcels and a nice house. It was valued about $250K or so maybe without the drug issue to a "normal" buyer. They are going to make $600K. Their agent is wise and they aren't in any way desperate to sell but listed when this boom showed up. But, they listed with a different agent who apparently knew how to deal with this group of buyers and their BS. Their deal included an appraisal date in the contract. As in, we won't agree to your offer without a date set in stone. They also took advantage of something I didn't know you could do. On a house, CA law limits the GF deposit you can require to 3%. However, there is no limit on bare land parcels. So, to accept a deal, and they had the Chinese buyer and the Hmong buyer bidding against each other, they required 20K down that was non-refundable for each of their 4 bare land parcels, plus the full 3% for the one with their house and required them to waive all contingencies out of the gate. Their buyer stands to lose 90K if they backed out for any reason after the initial date they signed the contract. If I had to have another deal, my contract would be very similar.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 12:58:22 GMT -5
There was a law passed back when the RE market crashed that the lenders arrange the appraisers and the buyers/sellers don't get to choose. That's part of the problem in these deals because these out of area hard money lenders are using appraisers who don't understand the local market's unique issues. The appraisers are from out of the area and apparently not terribly familiar with the added value of weed-growing land. My agent mentioned yesterday my deal is actually one of the better ones and that many of them are dragging up to 90 days with all sorts of delays and BS. This is why 90% of the realtors in the area won't sell or represent buyers in that area. Well, that and the local DA announced last year they are actively investigating these deals for money laundering, organized crime connections, etc... I'm moving to Oregon where growing is much more regulated and moving into town where it's also not such a problem.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 21, 2019 13:41:08 GMT -5
Shasta, I know that you have already talked with at least one real estate lawyer, but have you ever considered finding a lawyer who can field (or suggest) questions regarding criminal and tax headaches?
It doesn't look particularly good to be receiving money on a regular basis from drug dealers who bought your land at a premium. (Those payments can also be construed as a return of capital to an investor.)
It also doesn't look good to abandon all attempts to collect on a mortgage and issue a quitclaim for minimal or no consideration. (There's a possibility that you might have also collected unlaundered cash when you signed away your rights and failed to report it.) Maybe you should spend a couple hundred bucks and talk to guys or gals with this kind of expertise. It may come in quite handy to know exactly what hoops to jump through if these guys get busted or stop paying and you never want to deal with this property or its' owners ever again.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Dec 21, 2019 16:25:38 GMT -5
Shasta, I know that you have already talked with at least one real estate lawyer, but have you ever considered finding a lawyer who can field (or suggest) questions regarding criminal and tax headaches?
It doesn't look particularly good to be receiving money on a regular basis from drug dealers who bought your land at a premium. (Those payments can also be construed as a return of capital to an investor.)
It also doesn't look good to abandon all attempts to collect on a mortgage and issue a quitclaim for minimal or no consideration. (There's a possibility that you might have also collected unlaundered cash when you signed away your rights and failed to report it.) Maybe you should spend a couple hundred bucks and talk to guys or gals with this kind of expertise. It may come in quite handy to know exactly what hoops to jump through if these guys get busted or stop paying and you never want to deal with this property or its' owners ever again.
Although, as with ANY real estate transaction, she has no duty to investigate where the money to purchase her property is coming from. Nor does she know for sure that the new buyer is going to do with the property. Does any of us when we buy or sell a piece of property? She's just a widow whose children have moved away looking to sell and buy her retirement home in another state.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 17:14:13 GMT -5
Shasta, I know that you have already talked with at least one real estate lawyer, but have you ever considered finding a lawyer who can field (or suggest) questions regarding criminal and tax headaches?
It doesn't look particularly good to be receiving money on a regular basis from drug dealers who bought your land at a premium. (Those payments can also be construed as a return of capital to an investor.)
It also doesn't look good to abandon all attempts to collect on a mortgage and issue a quitclaim for minimal or no consideration. (There's a possibility that you might have also collected unlaundered cash when you signed away your rights and failed to report it.) Maybe you should spend a couple hundred bucks and talk to guys or gals with this kind of expertise. It may come in quite handy to know exactly what hoops to jump through if these guys get busted or stop paying and you never want to deal with this property or its' owners ever again.
My house is closing through a title company. It's their job under Dodd-Frank to confirm the source of the purchasing money on a property they choose to issue title insurance on. I'm not privy to where the buyers got their money or who the buyers are. All I have is their name. (And, google, of course... ) It appears from my previous deal, the cash typically comes out of elderly people's retirement accounts. I assume the dirty cash is then put back in. But, who knows. Ultimately, I am selling to this buyer in a legal manner. I'm not carrying, so it's all mute at this point because once the papers are signed I have no connection to them or the property. The title company pays me out of escrow and then what happens with the property isn't my business or concern and the title company has supposedly screened that cash as "clean" so no one can come after it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 17:16:23 GMT -5
Shasta, I know that you have already talked with at least one real estate lawyer, but have you ever considered finding a lawyer who can field (or suggest) questions regarding criminal and tax headaches?
It doesn't look particularly good to be receiving money on a regular basis from drug dealers who bought your land at a premium. (Those payments can also be construed as a return of capital to an investor.)
It also doesn't look good to abandon all attempts to collect on a mortgage and issue a quitclaim for minimal or no consideration. (There's a possibility that you might have also collected unlaundered cash when you signed away your rights and failed to report it.) Maybe you should spend a couple hundred bucks and talk to guys or gals with this kind of expertise. It may come in quite handy to know exactly what hoops to jump through if these guys get busted or stop paying and you never want to deal with this property or its' owners ever again.
Although, as with ANY real estate transaction, she has no duty to investigate where the money to purchase her property is coming from. Nor does she know for sure that the new buyer is going to do with the property. Does any of us when we buy or sell a piece of property? She's just a widow whose children have moved away looking to sell and buy her retirement home in another state. Bingo. When we mention the drug cartel or growing weed, the realtors and title company are always quick to say the buyers are individuals, we can't be racist and assume they will grow, and what they do with the property isn't anyone's concern. The investigation under Dodd-Frank is on the title company. Kinda shocked they will handle these deals, but it is all about the money for everyone involved.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Dec 22, 2019 9:17:45 GMT -5
I'm glad you're standing firm on the 'no' for an answer to their high-pressure questions. I admire the aplomb with which you're handling this absurdly complicated transaction and hope for the best for you tomorrow, @shastasnewlife.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 12:26:59 GMT -5
I'm glad you're standing firm on the 'no' for an answer to their high-pressure questions. I admire the aplomb with which you're handling this absurdly complicated transaction and hope for the best for you tomorrow, @shastasnewlife . Thanks. I already don't have any tolerance for stress, so this situation is driving me completely crazy. I woke up with the beginnings of a cold this morning and I'm not terribly happy about it. Also not surprised, considering I have been getting very little sleep. Looking forward to having my own home again at some point. Somewhere without 5 dogs and 5 birds where there is some quiet... I do get some satisfaction from having the upper hand at the moment. But, as I've seen time and time again, that could change tomorrow... again... If I have to lower the sales price it will be with the agreement the buyers will expediently do what they need to on their side to deposit their funds into escrow and close. Until the funds hit my account, just about anything can happen...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 14:06:51 GMT -5
@shastasnewlife It appears to me that you are in need of the powers of my magic wand. Consider it waved. I will wave it again tomorrow. It can't hurt.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Dec 22, 2019 22:16:48 GMT -5
Shasta Has hope the house sale closes tomorrow. Good luck
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 16:02:23 GMT -5
It's "done". The buyer said they could only come up with $260K. I agreed to write down the sales price to $260K, which is a whopping $73K over appraised value and nearly 100K over what it was in escrow for 3 years ago, and in exchange they agreed to my demand of immediate release of their 7K in escrow to me as non-refundable and wiring their 170K into escrow by Friday. We sign papers next week, which was as soon as the lender and title company can generate them. Success. Well, hopefully. At least I am in a better position than I was.
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crazycat
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Post by crazycat on Dec 23, 2019 16:18:30 GMT -5
That is great . Good Christmas present to yourself .
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