tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 13, 2019 23:14:34 GMT -5
Again, it's a third-century "solution" to a 21st-century problem.
I wish I could take credit for that line, but I got it from a Republican Congressman whose district includes 40% of the entire Mexican border. As he also said, a wall is the most-expensive, least-effective method of border control. If the morons out there don't believe people like us, they should at least believe someone from their own side who actually knows the issue. But they won't, because they have suckled from the biggest liar in American political history. And are apparently proud of doing so. Truly pathetic.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 13, 2019 23:54:39 GMT -5
Ireland probably a poor example it's a religious internal peace wall. India is building one now to keep immigrants out Israel built their physical wall after the incidents of bombings against civiliens in public places...busses, bus stops, restaurants...killing of both Jews and Arabs...old not so old..youngsters by , in most cases, Palestinians...had gotten to be almost a daily occurance...it seems in their case it has proven to be effective...not a 100 % but vast improvement...It has nothing to do about Palestinians being treated fairly or not... just a way of a State taking steps to protect it's population from attacks.. Exactly!
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 13, 2019 23:56:44 GMT -5
I'm sure you are not able to see the big difference. But hey! That's ok.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 14, 2019 0:47:02 GMT -5
4 hours ago ednkris said: Ireland probably a poor example it's a religious internal peace wall. India is building one now to keep immigrants out
...and a very effective obstacle it is!! Take India, for instance, which has border fences with two of its neighbors, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The fence along its border with Bangladesh is aimed primarily at keeping Bangladeshi migrants from entering India. The decision to build a fence to keep them out was made in the 1980s when the issue of Bangladeshi migration turned politically explosive in the northeast Indian state of Assam. An eight-foot-high fence of barbed wire, electrified in some stretches, runs along roughly 70 percent of this border. I t is an intimidating structure but it hasn’t deterred Bangladeshi migrants anxious to cross into India to visit relatives or in search of livelihood security from making the perilous journey. Smugglers, drug couriers, human traffickers, and cattle rustlers from both sides of the border too continue to cross the border to ply their trade, often with the connivance of Indian and Bangladeshi border guards.thediplomat.com/2017/02/the-india-bangladesh-wall-lessons-for-trump/
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Feb 14, 2019 21:15:07 GMT -5
Ireland probably a poor example it's a religious internal peace wall. India is building one now to keep immigrants out Let me see if I have this right: your proof that a wall works consists of (i) a religious internal peace wall, (ii) the border barriers in Israel that are regularly the scene of violence and death, and (iii) a wall in India that has yet to be build? I know that I will sound "elitist" saying this, but may I suggest that you read up on the Maginot Line. The powers that were at prior to WW II in France thought this was the best/sure fire way to keep the Germans out. Well guess what those blasted Germans just came through Belgium and invaded France. Similarly, most (the vast majority) illegal immigrants do not sneak across the border; they co.e in by plane or boat, or car with valid visas which they then promptly overstay. You are willing to spend our resources (aka tax money) on building the next Maginot line and claim we NEED to do this for our security. How does that make any sense whatsoever? You make it sound like no one is trying to cross illegally. Last month there were over 47000 apprehended between ports of entry. Think about that for a minute. That is an avg of over 1500 per day / over 1 per minute. What about the ones that didn't get caught! This is a major problem. This is definitely an emergency build the damn wall
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 14, 2019 21:20:17 GMT -5
Israel built their physical wall after the incidents of bombings against civiliens in public places...busses, bus stops, restaurants...killing of both Jews and Arabs...old not so old..youngsters by , in most cases, Palestinians...had gotten to be almost a daily occurance...it seems in their case it has proven to be effective...not a 100 % but vast improvement...It has nothing to do about Palestinians being treated fairly or not... just a way of a State taking steps to protect it's population from attacks.. Exactly! right. remind me how many attacks have taken place on our Southern border, again (context added for clarity)
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 14, 2019 21:25:00 GMT -5
Do We have a shortage of illegal drugs?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 14, 2019 21:30:26 GMT -5
Do We have a shortage of illegal drugs? sorry, did I not say attacks?
do you want me to be more specific?
how about munitions fire across the border, just as one example.
drugs come here because we want them. demand feeds supply. until you stop demand, you won't stop illegal drugs. and the demand is not the fault of Mexico.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 14, 2019 21:32:19 GMT -5
Do We have a shortage of illegal drugs? No but they are coming through ports of entry. El Chapo was just found guilty. Read about how he got drugs in. It wasn’t by hiring some schmo to walk them across the desert.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 14, 2019 21:40:14 GMT -5
Do We have a shortage of illegal drugs? No but they are coming through ports of entry. El Chapo was just found guilty. Read about how he got drugs in. It wasn’t by hiring some schmo to walk them across the desert. that means of transport is hopelessly inefficient.
if you want to move bulk commodities, you need to find the lowest cost per lb moving. that would be, IN ORDER:
pipeline barge ship cargo boat (other) rail truck van and small vehicle air hand delivery/courier
pipeline and barge are pretty much out of the question for drugs, due to ease of detection. air and courier services are at least 4x the cost of truck and van truck transport is 10x as much as cargo boat and ship
unless you are moving small quantities, it makes ZERO sense to carry them across. the risk of detection and cost are far too high.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 14, 2019 21:42:09 GMT -5
Do We have a shortage of illegal drugs? sorry, did I not say attacks?
do you want me to be more specific?
how about munitions fire across the border, just as one example.
drugs come here because we want them. demand feeds supply. until you stop demand, you won't stop illegal drugs. and the demand is not the fault of Mexico.
Dj, I understand what you are saying,
As for demand, what are we going to do, put more people in jail? Or do we legalize them?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 14, 2019 21:43:55 GMT -5
The most efficient way is to pack it in some large cargo transport. Not all,of it is checked and even if it is, how likely are you to find 100 ponds if coke in with 300 tons of corn?
In addtion to walking it across the desert being inefficient, the risk of it being stolen is pretty high. No protection for your mule if they’re just wandering alone.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 14, 2019 21:46:19 GMT -5
Do We have a shortage of illegal drugs? No but they are coming through ports of entry. El Chapo was just found guilty. Read about how he got drugs in. It wasn’t by hiring some schmo to walk them across the desert. Border Patrol finds dumped back pack filled with illegal drugs all the time, when it looks like they may get caught, they the backpacks and run back to the Border! What do you think was going on when Border Patrol Officer Terry was killed?? With a gun from the ATF's Fast and Furious!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 14, 2019 21:46:46 GMT -5
sorry, did I not say attacks?
do you want me to be more specific?
how about munitions fire across the border, just as one example.
drugs come here because we want them. demand feeds supply. until you stop demand, you won't stop illegal drugs. and the demand is not the fault of Mexico.
Dj, I understand what you are saying,
As for demand, what are we going to do, put more people in jail? Or do we legalize them?
I am for legalization. we can actually create a whole industry out of it: supervised self-medication. I know it sounds crazy, but so does incarcerating people for smoking pot.
I really don't get why we get to let doctors choose our addictive substances with impunity, but that we can't make our own choices with (mostly) non-addictive substances. I don't get why regulating the purity and dosage of legal drugs is widely accepted, but regulating the purity and dosage of "other" drugs is not. I don't think any of the stuff we are doing helps the problem, frankly. in some cases, however, I don't even see the problem.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 14, 2019 21:48:13 GMT -5
No but they are coming through ports of entry. El Chapo was just found guilty. Read about how he got drugs in. It wasn’t by hiring some schmo to walk them across the desert. Border Patrol finds dumped back pack filled with illegal drugs all the time, when it looks like they may get caught, they the backpacks and run back to the Border! What do you think was going on when Border Patrol Officer Terry was killed?? With a gun from the ATF's Fast and Furious!!
Small potatoes. They’re transporting single servings.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 14, 2019 21:48:59 GMT -5
No but they are coming through ports of entry. El Chapo was just found guilty. Read about how he got drugs in. It wasn’t by hiring some schmo to walk them across the desert. Border Patrol finds dumped back pack filled with illegal drugs all the time,
but you yourself have pointed out that there have been more drug deaths in the last year than at any time in modern history.
so, even you have to admit that this level of detection is doing nothing to disrupt supply. it is merely driving up the profits.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 14, 2019 22:07:28 GMT -5
Border Patrol finds dumped back pack filled with illegal drugs all the time,
but you yourself have pointed out that there have been more drug deaths in the last year than at any time in modern history.
so, even you have to admit that this level of detection is doing nothing to disrupt supply. it is merely driving up the profits.
Honesty, I don't have the answer,
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 14, 2019 22:11:15 GMT -5
Border Patrol finds dumped back pack filled with illegal drugs all the time, when it looks like they may get caught, they the backpacks and run back to the Border! What do you think was going on when Border Patrol Officer Terry was killed?? With a gun from the ATF's Fast and Furious!!
Small potatoes. They’re transporting single servings. Not if they are carrying fentanyl! I know that I posted this above.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 14, 2019 22:43:20 GMT -5
Congress is a co-equal branch of government. They don't have to do what he demands any more than he has to do what they demand...until they get a veto proof bill, and then, he has no control. I am pretty sure he will take the deal. McConnell already told him he can't hold the party together on this one. He may re-allocate. Or he may just say he is reallocating. His base will believe him. Why doesn’t he just announce that the wall has been completed? His ignorant base will believe him and STFU. Win-win.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 15, 2019 10:37:44 GMT -5
Let me see if I have this right: your proof that a wall works consists of (i) a religious internal peace wall, (ii) the border barriers in Israel that are regularly the scene of violence and death, and (iii) a wall in India that has yet to be build? I know that I will sound "elitist" saying this, but may I suggest that you read up on the Maginot Line. The powers that were at prior to WW II in France thought this was the best/sure fire way to keep the Germans out. Well guess what those blasted Germans just came through Belgium and invaded France. Similarly, most (the vast majority) illegal immigrants do not sneak across the border; they co.e in by plane or boat, or car with valid visas which they then promptly overstay. You are willing to spend our resources (aka tax money) on building the next Maginot line and claim we NEED to do this for our security. How does that make any sense whatsoever? You make it sound like no one is trying to cross illegally. Last month there were over 47000 apprehended between ports of entry. Think about that for a minute. That is an avg of over 1500 per day / over 1 per minute. What about the ones that didn't get caught! This is a major problem. This is definitely an emergency build the damn wall So why not employ more border agents instead of building a wall. The wall can't run after people and apprehend them. A border patrol officer can. Why not employee more American citizens instead of building a monstrosity that needs to be maintained at taxpayer expense? Why is this wall needed?
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 15, 2019 10:42:48 GMT -5
sorry, did I not say attacks?
do you want me to be more specific?
how about munitions fire across the border, just as one example.
drugs come here because we want them. demand feeds supply. until you stop demand, you won't stop illegal drugs. and the demand is not the fault of Mexico.
Dj, I understand what you are saying,
As for demand, what are we going to do, put more people in jail? Or do we legalize them?
Why not make rehab facilities affordable for the American people? Some don't or can't go to rehab because of how much it costs. Why not crack down on drug dealers harder? Most of those are home grown. It would again put more Americans to work in the form of nurses, doctors, etc in the rehab facilities and more prison guards in jails. Overcrowding? How many more prisons can we build for $5.7 bil? Why do we need a wall again?
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 15, 2019 10:45:55 GMT -5
but you yourself have pointed out that there have been more drug deaths in the last year than at any time in modern history.
so, even you have to admit that this level of detection is doing nothing to disrupt supply. it is merely driving up the profits.
Honesty, I don't have the answer, Holy shit! Write the date down! AS finally admitted he doesn't know the answer! I think this might be the first time he didn't just yell "squirrel!" instead of admitting that he doesn't know.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 15, 2019 10:46:53 GMT -5
Even I am impressed.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Feb 15, 2019 14:24:01 GMT -5
Small potatoes. They’re transporting single servings. Not if they are carrying fentanyl! I know that I posted this above.
Your own article says the fentanyl came in via a truckload of cucumbers.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Feb 15, 2019 14:37:32 GMT -5
How about $1.5 billion for quelling demand of these dangerous narcotics? Whaddya say Donald.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 15, 2019 14:52:35 GMT -5
How about $1.5 billion for quelling demand of these dangerous narcotics? Whaddya say Donald. Or $5.7 billion
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 17, 2019 19:14:42 GMT -5
Not if they are carrying fentanyl! I know that I posted this above.
Your own article says the fentanyl came in via a truckload of cucumbers. Welts, that was the only one the found!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Feb 17, 2019 19:23:37 GMT -5
Not if they are carrying fentanyl! I know that I posted this above.
Your own article says the fentanyl came in via a truckload of cucumbers. I don't care if if came thru the Wall, over the Wall, Under the Wall, Around the Wall,,,,, Here what we do know,, it made it to this point,, We are only lucky that it was even found this time!! Just another example of,,,,, What we are doing now IS NOT WORKING!!!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 17, 2019 19:30:37 GMT -5
Your own article says the fentanyl came in via a truckload of cucumbers. I don't care if if came thru the Wall, over the Wall, Under the Wall, Around the Wall,,,,, Here what we do know,, it made it to this point,, We are only lucky that it was even found this time!! Just another example of,,,,, What we are doing now IS NOT WORKING!!!
agreed. and a wall won't help the problem. most of us agree on that, as well.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 18, 2019 23:57:37 GMT -5
I don't think cutting the funding for international drug enforcement programs will decrease the amount of drugs being brought into the US either, but for some reason, that seems to be on the table too.
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