Acquiring land for the wall.

[swamp]

The border land where the wall is supposed to go is privately owned.  

Unless the landowners are willing to give the land away, eminent domain proceedings will be required to obtain it.  But, isn't the government just grabbing land from private persons one of those governmental overreach things that the conservatives rail against? 

I'm so confused. 

[mroped]

For the conservatives (libertarians included) the government is a legal entity only when it’s needed to achieve their goals. In such cases the government should excercise its full power regardless o the outcome.
Other than that, when it comes say to regulating business or banking or anything else in between the government is too big, overreaching, infringing on people’s rights and plain evil!
(I guess you knew thta already but I’m venting!😂)

[swamp]

why isn't anyone talking about this?!

It will take years of court battles to obtain the land to put the wall on.    Even if this wall was completely necessary for public safety, it's not going to happen any time soon.   

[bean29]

They were speculating on MSNBC earlier this week, or maybe last week that Trump has never really been serious about the wall, it is just a tool he uses to rile up his base.  Idk, if he will abandon it if he starts loosing enough ground with his base. Republicans still seem to want to stick with him though.

I agree that they don't really seem to have a very well thought out plan, but then again, Trump really seems to want to be a dictator, and the Republicans seem to be fine with that plan - maybe they plan to sieze the land they need via eminent domain and to hell with the rule of law and ownership laws.

[swamp]

Jan 17, 2019 10:42:13 GMT -5 bean29 said:

They were speculating on MSNBC earlier this week, or maybe last week that Trump has never really been serious about the wall, it is just a tool he uses to rile up his base.  Idk, if he will abandon it if he starts loosing enough ground with his base. Republicans still seem to want to stick with him though.

I agree that they don't really seem to have a very well thought out plan, but then again, Trump really seems to want to be a dictator, and the Republicans seem to be fine with that plan - maybe they plan to sieze the land they need via eminent domain and to hell with the rule of law and ownership laws.

that seems to be a very non-conservative action, don't you think? 

[grumpyhermit]

Jan 17, 2019 10:58:44 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 17, 2019 10:42:13 GMT -5 bean29 said:

They were speculating on MSNBC earlier this week, or maybe last week that Trump has never really been serious about the wall, it is just a tool he uses to rile up his base.  Idk, if he will abandon it if he starts loosing enough ground with his base. Republicans still seem to want to stick with him though.

I agree that they don't really seem to have a very well thought out plan, but then again, Trump really seems to want to be a dictator, and the Republicans seem to be fine with that plan - maybe they plan to sieze the land they need via eminent domain and to hell with the rule of law and ownership laws.

that seems to be a very non-conservative action, don't you think? 

Haven't you heard? This is a national emergency!

Even though, you know, facts: www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings

[swamp]

Jan 17, 2019 11:01:42 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

Jan 17, 2019 10:58:44 GMT -5 swamp said:

that seems to be a very non-conservative action, don't you think? 

Haven't you heard? This is a national emergency!

Even though, you know, facts: www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings

exactly!!!! 

This whole conversation makes me so mad!!!

A wall won't do shit, except cost a pile of money.   What would work are better tracking systems for those on visa/green cards, more workers to process applications and asylum requests, more immigration courts, and drones, cameras, and heat sensing detectors at the border.  Even El Chapo said the wall isn't worth it, that drugs come in through legal ports of entry. 

Think how easily someone walking a pile of cocaine would get caught if they walked it across.    And you can't get nearly as much in.  It's not cost effective.  

These federal workers are being used as pawns so Trump can stay the center of attention.   

[Cookies Galore]

Jan 17, 2019 10:32:07 GMT -5 swamp said:

why isn't anyone talking about this?!

It will take years of court battles to obtain the land to put the wall on.    Even if this wall was completely necessary for public safety, it's not going to happen any time soon.   

Seriously. The Blue Route (I-476 connecting the turnpike to I-76 and I-95 in SE PA) was originally planned in 1929 and transferred to the PA Department of Highways in 1950s following the advent of the Interstate Highway System. It was supposed to be completed in 1971 at the latest. Do you know when it finally opened? The early 90s. There were numerous lawsuits fighting eminent domain that delayed the project for decades. It's a 20 mile stretch of road.

[Tennesseer]

Instead of building a self-aggrandizing monument to himself, trump should just have the Statue of Liberty's head lopped off and have a bust of his head replace it. Save us a lot of money.

[giramomma]

If Trump declares a national emergency, can he take the land? I assumed that would be a bonus of saying there's a national emergency...to get access to the land super quick.

What amuses me is that last week he  spent a lot of time trying to build his case...and yet,,, no national emergency has been declared yet. I wonder how long it's going to take for him to declare the emergency...

[swamp]

Jan 17, 2019 11:19:13 GMT -5 giramomma said:

If Trump declares a national emergency, can he take the land? I assumed that would be a bonus of saying there's a national emergency...to get access to the land super quick.

What amuses me is that last week he  spent a lot of time trying to build his case...and yet,,, no national emergency has been declared yet. I wonder how long it's going to take for him to declare the emergency...

He could try.  I'm Pretty sure the courts would tell him, "no." 

[Tennesseer]

Trash talk like this only causes trump's ego to dig its heals in further.

From yesterday: 'DEAD, DEAD, DEAD': ANN COULTER SAYS DONALD TRUMP IS 'DEAD IN THE WATER IF HE DOESN'T BUILD THAT WALL'

[oped]

It’s fun to finally see the local bypass they have been talking about for over two decades going up... I think it will only be 6-7 more years now till it’s finished! Fingers crossed...

[phil5185]

maybe they plan to sieze the land they need via eminent domain and to hell with the rule of law and ownership laws.

Maybe eminent domain is the rule of Law?

[mroped]

Jan 17, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

maybe they plan to sieze the land they need via eminent domain and to hell with the rule of law and ownership laws.

Maybe eminent domain is the rule of Law?

Eminent domain is to be used if it’s in the interest of the public. As of now more than 50% of Americans are against the wall so...close but no cigar!

[swamp]

Jan 17, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

maybe they plan to sieze the land they need via eminent domain and to hell with the rule of law and ownership laws.

Maybe eminent domain is the rule of Law?

It is if the government can meet the test to public need. 

Remember the Kelo decision and how it pissed off conservatives?  You think the texans are going to give up their land without a fight? 

[billisonboard]

Jan 17, 2019 11:19:13 GMT -5 giramomma said:

If Trump declares a national emergency, can he take the land? I assumed that would be a bonus of saying there's a national emergency...to get access to the land super quick.

What amuses me is that last week he  spent a lot of time trying to build his case...and yet,,, no national emergency has been declared yet. I wonder how long it's going to take for him to declare the emergency...

The link below gives information on what the President can do with a national emergency. I found two that he could use for construction.

10 U.S.C. § 2808 (a)


Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces (1982)

33 U.S.C. § 2293


Secretary of the Army may terminate or defer any Army civil works project and apply the resources, including funds, personnel, and equipment, of the Army’s civil works program to authorized civil works, military construction, and civil defense projects that are essential to the national defense, without regard to any other provision of law (1986) A Guide to Emergency Powers and Their Use

I found nothing that suggests an authorization to seize land.

[giramomma]

Jan 17, 2019 12:40:17 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 17, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Maybe eminent domain is the rule of Law?

It is if the government can meet the test to public need. 

Remember the Kelo decision and how it pissed off conservatives?  You think the texans are going to give up their land without a fight? 

I skimmed through the Kelo decision. I don't see how that compares. That was about municipalities making money off deals. I don't know how the gov't is going to make money off the wall, at the expense of the Texans.

And, while yes, I have heard some law makers from Texas say they don't want the wall, I'm not going to presume that elected law makers represent the rank and file average Joe. Very few law makers that I vote for actually represent my beliefs.

I think Texans that really believe that the wall will stop in influx of drugs and brown people would happily give up their land. Racism (and discrimination) is a very powerful motivator, like it or not...in this day and age.

[swamp]

a bunch of the land owners are brown people. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 17, 2019 12:40:17 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 17, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Maybe eminent domain is the rule of Law?

It is if the government can meet the test to public need. 

Remember the Kelo decision and how it pissed off conservatives?  You think the texans are going to give up their land without a fight? 

Kelo pissed off a lot of people, not just conservatives. 

[hurley1980]

The High Speed Rail in California is only 800 miles of track. They started planning back in the late 90s early 2000s. Its 2019, and they have barely started construction. It won't be done for probably another 20 years.

This fucking wall is never gonna happen!

[dondub]

There will never be a comprehensive border wall and Trump is not only making a fool of himself but history will be very unkind to him for these shenanigans.

[billisonboard]

The federal government has started surveying land along the border in Texas and announced plans to start construction next month. Rather than surrender their land, some property owners are digging in, vowing to reject buyout offers and preparing to fight the administration in court. link

[happyhoix]

Jan 17, 2019 13:31:39 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

The High Speed Rail in California is only 800 miles of track. They started planning back in the late 90s early 2000s. Its 2019, and they have barely started construction. It won't be done for probably another 20 years.

This fucking wall is never gonna happen!

I don't think that is really trump's intent. He doesn't really care if the wall gets built or not - the wall is just a symbol and a campaign prop.

He's already talked about how he'll use this shut down as part of his 2020 campaign. He'll end getting some small segments completed prior to 2020, and his campaign ads will feature him standing in front of one of the construction sites, bellowing at the camera about how much safer everyone is, how many fewer drugs are getting into the country, and it's all because of HIM. It's vitality important that he get re-elected to continue this fight against the browns, and the libetards that are helping the browns! (It won't matter that very little of the wall actually gets done, or that violence or drug use figures haven't budged).

Then, should he win, he'll be back in front of the wall, this time standing next to Ivanka, who will be smashingly dressed in a red/white and blue designer dress, announcing how much further he got on the wall, but WE NEED TO ELECT IVANKA TO FINISH IT!

Really, not much actual work has to get done on the wall. In fact, the slower the construction goes, the longer the Trump family can use it as a symbol to galvanize those who are afraid of the browns.

[swamp]

Jan 17, 2019 14:01:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The federal government has started surveying land along the border in Texas and announced plans to start construction next month. Rather than surrender their land, some property owners are digging in, vowing to reject buyout offers and preparing to fight the administration in court. link

so they're going to build on land they don't own. Excellent.   Seizure of private property with no just compensation.  Just want I want my government to do. 

[billisonboard]

Jan 17, 2019 14:35:26 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 17, 2019 14:01:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The federal government has started surveying land along the border in Texas and announced plans to start construction next month. Rather than surrender their land, some property owners are digging in, vowing to reject buyout offers and preparing to fight the administration in court. link

so they're going to build on land they don't own. Excellent.   Seizure of private property with no just compensation.  Just want I want my government to do. 

I read nothing in the link I provided to suggest that.

[swamp]

Jan 17, 2019 14:39:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 17, 2019 14:35:26 GMT -5 swamp said:

so they're going to build on land they don't own. Excellent.   Seizure of private property with no just compensation.  Just want I want my government to do. 

I read nothing in the link I provided to suggest that.

The link didn't say the feds own the land, in fact, it said letters would be coming out in about a month to landowners with offers to buy the land.   Closings don't happen over night.

Hence they will be building on land they don't own. 

[steff]

Conservatives here talk over and over about how people will pick up their guns to protect what is theirs.  Then they are really gonna love watching Texans pick up their guns to defend their land from confiscation for a wall.   Because they are fucking idiots if they think that won't happen when a crew randomly shows up to start building on privately owned land.  And don't forget, they also like to claim that Texas is an all American RED state.  So try to take land illegally from red blooded Texas Americans.  You'll get your ass handed back to you full of buckshot, keep coming back and you'll find a whole lot more in those guns. 

Conservative gun owners are going to do what conservative gun owners have been just damn near giddy waiting for.  Problem is, it's not Liberals that are they will be targeting. 

[andi9899]

Jan 17, 2019 12:40:17 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jan 17, 2019 11:55:02 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Maybe eminent domain is the rule of Law?

It is if the government can meet the test to public need. 

Remember the Kelo decision and how it pissed off conservatives?  You think the texans are going to give up their land without a fight? 

I read an article somewhere where a lot of Texans living along the border were saying that they weren't giving up their land without a fight. I wish I could remember where I saw it so I could post it.

ETA: The article I read said that there is a 100+ year old church that would be demolished if the wall were to happen. Wonder if DT gives a shit. Probably not.

[andi9899]

Jan 17, 2019 14:01:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The federal government has started surveying land along the border in Texas and announced plans to start construction next month. Rather than surrender their land, some property owners are digging in, vowing to reject buyout offers and preparing to fight the administration in court. link

That's the article! Thanks!