weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 10, 2019 15:32:32 GMT -5
Montreal priest wants parents to teach his Catholic sex ed handbook Education Ministry says children can only be exempted from courses under exceptional circumstances The director of liturgical pastoral services for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Montreal wants parents to stop their kids from going to Quebec's new sex ed classes and teach them from a handbook he co-wrote instead.
Fr. Robert Gendreau wrote the book with Dr. Raouf Ayas, a Montreal cardiologist. The book is being sold on Amazon.ca for just under $10. Gendreau says the aim is to teach sexual education through a Catholic perspective, but a Montreal social worker worries children pulled from the Quebec Education Ministry's program could miss out on important tools to help prevent sexual assault. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/priest-sex-ed-handbook-1.4972825
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 10, 2019 16:14:53 GMT -5
WTF? Even yanks who don't speak French know how insanely tone-deaf that is.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 10, 2019 16:19:23 GMT -5
I know, eh?
We finally got the damn church out of our education system and now it's trying to slither back in.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 10, 2019 16:22:05 GMT -5
It's bad enough that the Conference of Catholic Bishops wants to overturn our assisted suicide laws, and now this....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 17:04:15 GMT -5
Watch the Southpark episode “Red Hot Catholic Love” season 6, episode 8.
They just never stop trying to get in everyone’s bedroom.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 10, 2019 17:24:55 GMT -5
It's bad enough that the Conference of Catholic Bishops wants to overturn our assisted suicide laws, and now this.... I still haven't quite figured out how many people can't grasp the "if you don't want to do it....you don't have to" concept.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jan 10, 2019 17:38:06 GMT -5
Who knows more about sex then a Catholic priest?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 10, 2019 17:40:36 GMT -5
Who knows more about sex then a Catholic priest? OUCH!
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 10, 2019 18:05:59 GMT -5
Welts, do you think that Quebec is about to go through the same kind of reckoning that Ireland did? Or do language politics and the timeline preclude that? They certainly had a period in which the state outsourced education and other social services to the church, and had similar results, but I'm real fuzzy on when that system began to be dismantled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 18:17:40 GMT -5
Who knows more about sex then a Catholic priest?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 18:18:28 GMT -5
No way, and not just because of their sordid history. I was raised Roman Catholic. I would never subject my child of either sex to a program that most likely teaches that there is only one acceptable method of BC (Natural Family Planning, which is only a slight improvement over the rhythm system), will avoid all discussion of sex outside of marriage other than "don't" and pretty much lets you know that a girl who's lost her virginity and is not married is less than whole. Oh, yeah- and I never once heard any mention during my school days of the possibility that a girl might have sexual urges, too. It's a lot easier to buy the "Just Say No" message when you have no idea who powerful your own urges are going to be.
At least with the Internet, kids can get more info than they could when I was young. What's really awful is the fallout when the kids who were taught nothing but abstinence give in to their urges but think that you can't get pregnant the first time, or if you don't have orgasm, or that you're OK with "technical virgin" practices that can carry an even higher STD risk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 18:20:55 GMT -5
And most church-based teachings omit any way to approach the LGBTQ issues, including their sexual health.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 10, 2019 18:48:16 GMT -5
Who knows more about sex then a Catholic priest? OUCH!
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Jan 10, 2019 19:41:00 GMT -5
The Church is distancing themselves from this and saying they don't endorse it.
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chapeau
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Post by chapeau on Jan 10, 2019 20:48:39 GMT -5
I was taught marriage and morality in my catholic high school by a nun. We all got the irony. Our favorite Friday entertainment was playing stump the nun. We’d spend all week coming up with some truly horrible questions. She usually got the answer right (or as right as we knew then!) and never, ever blushed. She talked about French kissing as “kisses where bodily fluids are exchanged.” I suspect she spent a lot of time praying- either for patience or for us. Fortunately another teacher’s wife was pregnant and had a baby during the school year. He told us everything. Even stuff my OB didn’t tell me when I was pregnant. There were drawings and charts/graphs. And he never used the word sex. That would have probably gotten him fired.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 10, 2019 20:57:37 GMT -5
Who knows more about sex then a Catholic priest? POTD
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 10, 2019 21:21:13 GMT -5
I was taught marriage and morality in my catholic high school by a nun. We all got the irony. Our favorite Friday entertainment was playing stump the nun. We’d spend all week coming up with some truly horrible questions. She usually got the answer right (or as right as we knew then!) and never, ever blushed. She talked about French kissing as “kisses where bodily fluids are exchanged.” I suspect she spent a lot of time praying- either for patience or for us. Fortunately another teacher’s wife was pregnant and had a baby during the school year. He told us everything. Even stuff my OB didn’t tell me when I was pregnant. There were drawings and charts/graphs. And he never used the word sex. That would have probably gotten him fired. That went out the door when I asked a priest in 5th grade (no lowly religion lessons from nuns for us) where all the humans came from if god only created one man and one woman who then proceeded to have three sons...
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chapeau
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Post by chapeau on Jan 10, 2019 21:37:05 GMT -5
I was taught marriage and morality in my catholic high school by a nun. We all got the irony. Our favorite Friday entertainment was playing stump the nun. We’d spend all week coming up with some truly horrible questions. She usually got the answer right (or as right as we knew then!) and never, ever blushed. She talked about French kissing as “kisses where bodily fluids are exchanged.” I suspect she spent a lot of time praying- either for patience or for us. Fortunately another teacher’s wife was pregnant and had a baby during the school year. He told us everything. Even stuff my OB didn’t tell me when I was pregnant. There were drawings and charts/graphs. And he never used the word sex. That would have probably gotten him fired. That went out the door when I asked a priest in 5th grade (no lowly religion lessons from nuns for us) where all the humans came from if god only created one man and one woman who then proceeded to have three sons...
She probably would have deferred to a priest on theology questions. We tended to ask questions about more ... practical applications. Stuff we thought no nun should have known. Because she was never a teenager. (And I just realized that one of the ringleaders of the questions is now a nun herself. I wonder if she has to teach kids like us?) We loved to ask questions about cheating. And wife swapping (although we didn’t call it that).
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 10, 2019 21:52:28 GMT -5
That went out the door when I asked a priest in 5th grade (no lowly religion lessons from nuns for us) where all the humans came from if god only created one man and one woman who then proceeded to have three sons...
She probably would have deferred to a priest on theology questions. We tended to ask questions about more ... practical applications. Stuff we thought no nun should have known. Because she was never a teenager. (And I just realized that one of the ringleaders of the questions is now a nun herself. I wonder if she has to teach kids like us?) We loved to ask questions about cheating. And wife swapping (although we didn’t call it that). During my 12th grade mechanical drawing class taught by a nun, a goofy student asked the nun what was a douche bag. (At the time everyone was calling everyone else douche bags.) The nun laughed a bit and told him to go ask his mother.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 11, 2019 0:33:53 GMT -5
Welts, do you think that Quebec is about to go through the same kind of reckoning that Ireland did? Or do language politics and the timeline preclude that? They certainly had a period in which the state outsourced education and other social services to the church, and had similar results, but I'm real fuzzy on when that system began to be dismantled. We had our reckoning in the 60s, with the Quiet Revolution. We will not allow the church to exert that kind of influence again. It kept people poverty-stricken and downtrodden. Roman Catholic families had 12 kids and had to tithe, on top of that. As of the mid 19th century, the Catholic religion exercised considerable influence in Quebec, to the point that historian Lucia Ferretti gave it the status of principal organizer of society in Quebec. Its hold was so great that French writer Paul Claudel referred to Quebec as the "Tibet of Catholicism." English Canadians referred to Quebec as the "priest-ridden province." www.larevolutiontranquille.ca/en/the-decline-of-religion.php
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 11, 2019 0:38:56 GMT -5
Now Quebec is rabidly and militantly secular. When the pendulum swings, it doesn't stop in the middle.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 11, 2019 10:06:35 GMT -5
Welts, do you think that Quebec is about to go through the same kind of reckoning that Ireland did? Or do language politics and the timeline preclude that? They certainly had a period in which the state outsourced education and other social services to the church, and had similar results, but I'm real fuzzy on when that system began to be dismantled. We had our reckoning in the 60s, with the Quiet Revolution. We will not allow the church to exert that kind of influence again. It kept people poverty-stricken and downtrodden. Roman Catholic families had 12 kids and had to tithe, on top of that.As of the mid 19th century, the Catholic religion exercised considerable influence in Quebec, to the point that historian Lucia Ferretti gave it the status of principal organizer of society in Quebec. Its hold was so great that French writer Paul Claudel referred to Quebec as the "Tibet of Catholicism." English Canadians referred to Quebec as the "priest-ridden province." www.larevolutiontranquille.ca/en/the-decline-of-religion.phpMy paternal grandparents' parents were born in Quebec as were all of my grandparents' older siblings. Their parents lived the last half of their lives in the U.S. while their children lived either most or all of their lives in the U.S. The combined number of siblings of my grandparents was 18. Interesting to note few of them had children of their own. I am only aware of five first cousins of my dad's. Why so few? I have no idea.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 11, 2019 12:06:49 GMT -5
We had our reckoning in the 60s, with the Quiet Revolution. We will not allow the church to exert that kind of influence again. It kept people poverty-stricken and downtrodden. Roman Catholic families had 12 kids and had to tithe, on top of that.As of the mid 19th century, the Catholic religion exercised considerable influence in Quebec, to the point that historian Lucia Ferretti gave it the status of principal organizer of society in Quebec. Its hold was so great that French writer Paul Claudel referred to Quebec as the "Tibet of Catholicism." English Canadians referred to Quebec as the "priest-ridden province." www.larevolutiontranquille.ca/en/the-decline-of-religion.phpMy paternal grandparents' parents were born in Quebec as were all of my grandparents' older siblings. Their parents lived the last half of their lives in the U.S. while their children lived either most or all of their lives in the U.S. The combined number of siblings of my grandparents was 18. Interesting to note few of them had children of their own. I am only aware of five first cousins of my dad's. Why so few? I have no idea. Probably they found out about BC. Or that they weren't going to hell because of it.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 11, 2019 12:21:51 GMT -5
That went out the door when I asked a priest in 5th grade (no lowly religion lessons from nuns for us) where all the humans came from if god only created one man and one woman who then proceeded to have three sons...
She probably would have deferred to a priest on theology questions. We tended to ask questions about more ... practical applications. Stuff we thought no nun should have known. Because she was never a teenager. (And I just realized that one of the ringleaders of the questions is now a nun herself. I wonder if she has to teach kids like us?) We loved to ask questions about cheating. And wife swapping (although we didn’t call it that). Yeah, no. That would have never happened. I didn't go to Catholic HS (catholic GS and then Teen Club (weekly stuff for Teens!) ) but I did attend weekly get togethers at our Church were we learned Catholic stuff for teens. And it was all about "right answers" and "right questions". I may be horribly biased and my perspective on this maybe skewed because I never had belief in God - despite a good Catholic family and upbringing - my family went to Mass every Sunday - and when in GS we went to Mass M-F. My family was active in the Church. We did Catholic stuff at home too. My 'religious' epiphany came in 6th Grade when I realized people actually believed God existed and all that stuff about Jesus. When I did question -- I was discouraged from asking "wrong questions". Part of the religious answers to my questions were to restructure the question in to a "right question" which had a stock answer. I did try to develop belief - but it never happened. I wasn't happy with "right questions" - because they weren't MY questions. And the only answers I could have for the 'right questions" were the "right answers" I had been taught (and didn't have anything to do with what I actually feel/think/believe.) there were no answers for the "wrong questions". It was all very circular and not really about anything useful at all.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 11, 2019 12:29:54 GMT -5
Montreal priest wants parents to teach his Catholic sex ed handbook Education Ministry says children can only be exempted from courses under exceptional circumstances The director of liturgical pastoral services for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Montreal wants parents to stop their kids from going to Quebec's new sex ed classes and teach them from a handbook he co-wrote instead.
Fr. Robert Gendreau wrote the book with Dr. Raouf Ayas, a Montreal cardiologist. The book is being sold on Amazon.ca for just under $10. Gendreau says the aim is to teach sexual education through a Catholic perspective, but a Montreal social worker worries children pulled from the Quebec Education Ministry's program could miss out on important tools to help prevent sexual assault. www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/priest-sex-ed-handbook-1.4972825Just no. It's like telling your kid "what you can't see can't hurt you!" And I'm pretty sure anyone with any sort of life experience knows that's not true. Why would you want to send your kid out into the world with that kind of thinking (and lack of knowledge)?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jan 11, 2019 16:58:47 GMT -5
She probably would have deferred to a priest on theology questions. We tended to ask questions about more ... practical applications. Stuff we thought no nun should have known. Because she was never a teenager. (And I just realized that one of the ringleaders of the questions is now a nun herself. I wonder if she has to teach kids like us?) We loved to ask questions about cheating. And wife swapping (although we didn’t call it that). Yeah, no. That would have never happened. I didn't go to Catholic HS (catholic GS and then Teen Club (weekly stuff for Teens!) ) but I did attend weekly get togethers at our Church were we learned Catholic stuff for teens. And it was all about "right answers" and "right questions". I may be horribly biased and my perspective on this maybe skewed because I never had belief in God - despite a good Catholic family and upbringing - my family went to Mass every Sunday - and when in GS we went to Mass M-F. My family was active in the Church. We did Catholic stuff at home too. My 'religious' epiphany came in 6th Grade when I realized people actually believed God existed and all that stuff about Jesus. When I did question -- I was discouraged from asking "wrong questions". Part of the religious answers to my questions were to restructure the question in to a "right question" which had a stock answer. I did try to develop belief - but it never happened. I wasn't happy with "right questions" - because they weren't MY questions. And the only answers I could have for the 'right questions" were the "right answers" I had been taught (and didn't have anything to do with what I actually feel/think/believe.) there were no answers for the "wrong questions". It was all very circular and not really about anything useful at all. this all sounds very familiar, especially the bold, around the same age.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 11, 2019 17:13:24 GMT -5
Yeah, no. That would have never happened. I didn't go to Catholic HS (catholic GS and then Teen Club (weekly stuff for Teens!) ) but I did attend weekly get togethers at our Church were we learned Catholic stuff for teens. And it was all about "right answers" and "right questions". I may be horribly biased and my perspective on this maybe skewed because I never had belief in God - despite a good Catholic family and upbringing - my family went to Mass every Sunday - and when in GS we went to Mass M-F. My family was active in the Church. We did Catholic stuff at home too. My 'religious' epiphany came in 6th Grade when I realized people actually believed God existed and all that stuff about Jesus. When I did question -- I was discouraged from asking "wrong questions". Part of the religious answers to my questions were to restructure the question in to a "right question" which had a stock answer. I did try to develop belief - but it never happened. I wasn't happy with "right questions" - because they weren't MY questions. And the only answers I could have for the 'right questions" were the "right answers" I had been taught (and didn't have anything to do with what I actually feel/think/believe.) there were no answers for the "wrong questions". It was all very circular and not really about anything useful at all. this all sounds very familiar, especially the bold, around the same age. The bold is about the time (if not earlier) when I stopped believing too in what was told to us Catholic school students.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 11, 2019 17:16:18 GMT -5
That (above) and when we made our first communion in the second grade and also made our first confession. After the first confession, I asked the teacher nun what if I had nothing to confess. She replied with "Make something up." So I should lie. Makes perfectly good sense to me.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 11, 2019 18:03:25 GMT -5
That (above) and when we made our first communion in the second grade and also made our first confession. After the first confession, I asked the teacher nun what if I had nothing to confess. She replied with "Make something up." So I should lie. Makes perfectly good sense to me. My standard confession: I stole a cookie and I lied. The lie was often that I had stolen the cookie since we didn't have them often around.
Of course there was that one time (which I have told about before) when in 3rd grade or so I confessed to adultery → I needed a new sin to mix things up and the Dutch word for adultery is "overspel", the Dutch word for game/play is "spel" so I thought that was a reasonable choice and I could have done that. Some very strange noises came from the other side of the confessional and I was told never to do that again. Well, I sure as heck never said that again since it resulted in double the Our Father's and Hail Mary's from my standard sins and I might have been willing to shake things up but not at that price!
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 11, 2019 18:47:18 GMT -5
One girl confessed to our priest that she had sex and HE TOLD HER PARENTS! All hell broke loose.
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