weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 19, 2018 19:51:44 GMT -5
Ivanka Trump last year often used a personal email account to discuss or relay official White House business, according to emails released Monday by a nonpartisan watchdog group. According to emails released by American Oversight, Trump used her personal account through much of 2017 to email Cabinet officials, White House aides and her assistants. The Presidential Records Act requires all official White House communications and records be preserved. The Washington Post was first to report on the emails. The White House had no comment on Ivanka Trump's email practices. Trump's usage of a private email account will bring comparisons to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, whose usage of a private email server instead of a government email account during her time in office was a central part of President Donald Trump's campaign against her in 2016. Trump's supporters often chanted -- and still do, on occasion -- "Lock her up!" at the mention of Clinton, and President Donald Trump has frequently accused Clinton of receiving special treatment because she was not charged for skirting the Presidential Records Act with her email practices. www.cnn.com/2018/11/19/politics/ivanka-trump-personal-email-account/index.html
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 19, 2018 20:00:37 GMT -5
Nice try. Repos play by and have different rules that govern their behavior.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 19, 2018 20:17:30 GMT -5
Lock up the whole clan.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Nov 19, 2018 20:24:15 GMT -5
Trumps family and administration have broken the law before and gotten away with it. Drain the swamp......yes please do.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 19, 2018 20:29:22 GMT -5
Ivanka Trump last year often used a personal email account to discuss or relay official White House business, according to emails released Monday by a nonpartisan watchdog group. I'll bite. Presuming she's broken the law here, should she be prosecuted? What say you?
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ednkris
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Post by ednkris on Nov 19, 2018 20:58:43 GMT -5
Ivanka Trump last year often used a personal email account to discuss or relay official White House business, according to emails released Monday by a nonpartisan watchdog group. I'll bite. Presuming she's broken the law here, should she be prosecuted? What say you?
If she broke the law sure. Couple of questions is her personal email govt secured, and are the emails being archived. If the answer to both is yes then no law has been broken. After all its not like she had a server that wasn't govt secured to send classified documents. If she did definitely do a through investigation but it would be hard to prosecute since Hillary was given a pass
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 19, 2018 21:36:31 GMT -5
I'll bite. Presuming she's broken the law here, should she be prosecuted? What say you?
If she broke the law sure. Couple of questions is her personal email govt secured, and are the emails being archived. If the answer to both is yes then no law has been broken. After all its not like she had a server that wasn't govt secured to send classified documents. If she did definitely do a through investigation but it would be hard to prosecute since Hillary was given a pass My thoughts exactly. I'll also emphasize: this is precisely why Ms. Clinton should never have gotten a pass in 2016. If there's wrongdoing on Ms. Trump's behalf, the AG will either have to decline to prosecute--America loses--or rightly proceed but in so doing cement the case that Ms. Clinton got preferential treatment--America loses.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 19, 2018 21:43:00 GMT -5
If she broke the law sure. Couple of questions is her personal email govt secured, and are the emails being archived. If the answer to both is yes then no law has been broken. After all its not like she had a server that wasn't govt secured to send classified documents. If she did definitely do a through investigation but it would be hard to prosecute since Hillary was given a pass My thoughts exactly. I'll also emphasize: this is precisely why Ms. Clinton should never have gotten a pass in 2016. If there's wrongdoing on Ms. Trump's behalf, the AG will either have to decline to prosecute--America loses--or rightly proceed but in so doing cement the case that Ms. Clinton got preferential treatment--America loses.
That all is true. ivanka will get a pass. But will donald trump stop his fan clubs from yelling "Lock her up" each time he reminds them he beat Hillay Clinton in thecelection? The answer to that will is no.
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justme
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Post by justme on Nov 19, 2018 22:01:50 GMT -5
Isn't the definition of a personal email mean it's not on a government server? Like why would the government set up a non-government email on their servers? It literally makes no sense that she'd have a personal email that stored everything on a government server.
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steff
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Post by steff on Nov 19, 2018 22:26:19 GMT -5
The point is the GOP and their voters spent 2 years screaming "but her emails!" and demanding she be charged, tried, & jailed/executed (yes, there is a poster here who said that). And now they will sit silently by or go "but no one charged Hillary" rather than own their hypocrisy and double standard. Where are they now? They aren't screaming "but her emails!" for this one. It's not about what Dems are saying about it, it's what Repubs AREN'T saying anymore because it's now one of their snowflakes doing it.
And now we can add yet another thing where we get to say don't you dare fucking lecture anyone about this anymore. Even your high horse has decided you're an ass. (the collective GOP 'you'. If you decide to put on that shoe and strut, it's on you not me)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 19, 2018 22:27:44 GMT -5
My thoughts exactly. I'll also emphasize: this is precisely why Ms. Clinton should never have gotten a pass in 2016. If there's wrongdoing on Ms. Trump's behalf, the AG will either have to decline to prosecute--America loses--or rightly proceed but in so doing cement the case that Ms. Clinton got preferential treatment--America loses.
That all is true. ivanka will get a pass. But will donald trump stop his fan clubs from yelling "Lock her up" each time he reminds them he beat Hillay Clinton in thecelection? The answer to that will is no. Likely so, but you should at least make sure you're comparing apples with apples before going off on him. You're going to look like a certain mutual acquaintance of ours if it turns out Ms. Trump did nothing wrong.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 19, 2018 22:31:46 GMT -5
That all is true. ivanka will get a pass. But will donald trump stop his fan clubs from yelling "Lock her up" each time he reminds them he beat Hillay Clinton in thecelection? The answer to that will is no. Likely so, but you should at least make sure you're comparing apples with apples before going off on him. You're going to look like a certain mutual acquaintance of ours if it turns out Ms. Trump did nothing wrong.
It's never stopped trump supporters from screaming "Lockher up" after 27 gazilitrillion congressional investigations and found nothing criminal.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 19, 2018 22:50:35 GMT -5
Likely so, but you should at least make sure you're comparing apples with apples before going off on him. You're going to look like a certain mutual acquaintance of ours if it turns out Ms. Trump did nothing wrong.
It's never stopped trump supporters from screaming "Lockher up" after 27 gazilitrillion congressional investigations and found nothing criminal. I've never screamed "Lock her up!" but I share the supporters' not giving a damn about what the AG's declining to prosecute says about her guilt--at least when it comes to emailgate. She gets the benefit of the doubt on Benghazi. At least there the facts are in dispute, not laid bare on the table, and she deserves the presumption of innocence. I hope for her sake she's indeed guiltless in that matter, because the truth isn't hidden from the One who's going to judge her.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 19, 2018 23:15:03 GMT -5
That’s just it though. Hillary did not get the benefit of the doubt on Benghazi. Not 1, not 3, not 6, nooooo. Nine different investigations including the 11 hour grilling by Trey Gowdy where she turned him into her bitch. Of course the real reason they did it was too keep her in the dunk tank looking guilty. The end result is we have the narcissistic mistake as POTUS. Many, many more Americans died abroad in many different incidents under Reagan and W. Pffffttt. No big deal.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 19, 2018 23:31:42 GMT -5
That’s just it though. Hillary did not get the benefit of the doubt on Benghazi. Not 1, not 3, not 6, nooooo. Nine different investigations including the 11 grilling by Trey Gowdy where she turned him into her bitch. Of course the real reason they did it was too keep her in the dunk tank looking guilty. The end result is we have the narcissistic mistake as POTUS. Many, many more Americans died abroad in many different incidents under Reagan and W. Pffffttt. No big deal. Of course she did not get the benefit of doubt. Presumption of innocence is only for conservative male Supreme Court candidates accused of sexual assault.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Nov 19, 2018 23:42:21 GMT -5
I would like to see him punished now for what he is doing to this country. The man likely doesn't believe in god anyway so I don't want to wait on the heavenly judgement, lock him up now.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 19, 2018 23:45:29 GMT -5
That’s just it though. Hillary did not get the benefit of the doubt on Benghazi. Not 1, not 3, not 6, nooooo. Nine different investigations including the 11 grilling by Trey Gowdy where she turned him into her bitch. Of course the real reason they did it was too keep her in the dunk tank looking guilty. The end result is we have the narcissistic mistake as POTUS. Many, many more Americans died abroad in many different incidents under Reagan and W. Pffffttt. No big deal. There were nine investigations because all of them were stonewalled at some point. Documents lost, requests refused, subpoenas ignored, bureaucrats hidden behind armies of lawyers and litigation. You can fault the GOP for making nine failed attempts at breaching the wall--that they should have known they'd never penetrate it--but to cite the failed attempts as proof that no wrongdoing occurred is a reach too far. I'm convinced the Mueller investigation will suffer the same fate. Nothing coming close to touching Pres. Trump, which his supporters will claim proves the 'Russian collusion' narrative is a witch hunt. But the truth is that we'll never know the truth.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 20, 2018 0:09:31 GMT -5
People need to take a whole new look at what Benghazi was and the subsequent investigation wasn't about. It starts with a "C", ends with an "A", and has an "I" in the middle of it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2018 0:14:50 GMT -5
People need to take a whole new look at what Benghazi was and the subsequent investigation wasn't about. It starts with a "C", ends with an "A", and has an "I" in the middle of it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 20, 2018 1:32:59 GMT -5
We're fairly adventurous eaters, but it would take getting up some gumption for us to try that. I'm sure it's one of those things that tastes fantastic and just looks disgusting, but the idea of gelled meat is making my stomach roll just a little. And I've eaten chunks of charred monkey off a stick.
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Milee, it's absolutely delicious. I don't eat it anymore, but if I find some that's made with chicken, I buy that. Now, monkey, I wouldn't eat.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 20, 2018 11:19:19 GMT -5
But to cite the failed attempts as proof that no wrongdoing occurred is a reach too far.
Except that I didn't. I simply pointed out that she was not given the benefit of the doubt as proven by the nine investigations versus your opinion that she was.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2018 12:03:55 GMT -5
But to cite the failed attempts as proof that no wrongdoing occurred is a reach too far.
Except that I didn't. I simply pointed out that she was not given the benefit of the doubt as proven by the nine investigations versus your opinion that she was. I apologize if I misrepresented your position. By "benefit of the doubt", I didn't mean so great a benefit that no inquiry was conducted. Suppose, hypothetically, that during the Kavanaugh hearings a document surfaced purportedly proving Dr. Ford's allegations, but it was held in the custody of the GOP. The Democrats made nine separate attempts to obtain the document, but through extensive legal wrangling the GOP managed to thwart all attempts. Ergo the evidence never surfaced, Judge Kavanaugh benefited from the presumption of innocence, and was confirmed. Even though he was the subject of nine separate investigations looking to quash his appointment, I'd say he received the benefit of the doubt, wouldn't you?
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Nov 20, 2018 12:04:19 GMT -5
Trumps family and administration have broken the law before and gotten away with it. Drain the swamp......yes please do. He is now who he has always been...no secrets...all out in the open...Problem is with those who give their undying love and acceptance to him...never wavering... Hopefully come 2020 more and more will quietly make the switch in the privacy of the voting booth...don't even tell the friends or spouses...no reason to up set home front...just when it's announced that he is out...quietly give a arm shake and a quiet "Yessss" ..it will be enough.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 20, 2018 12:24:34 GMT -5
The fact there were 9 different investigations simply proves she did not get the benefit of the doubt. It's really that simple and bringing Kavanaugh in won't change that fact.
As for the 'facts' about Benghazi? I never cared. To me it was just 'umpteenth attack a Clinton for something'. Brought to mind the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf. Stevens et al were in a war zone. Schitt happens. Just check the history under Reagan and Bush, although the hypocrites forgot to.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 20, 2018 12:30:47 GMT -5
That’s just it though. Hillary did not get the benefit of the doubt on Benghazi. Not 1, not 3, not 6, nooooo. Nine different investigations including the 11 grilling by Trey Gowdy where she turned him into her bitch. Of course the real reason they did it was too keep her in the dunk tank looking guilty. The end result is we have the narcissistic mistake as POTUS. Many, many more Americans died abroad in many different incidents under Reagan and W. Pffffttt. No big deal. There were nine investigations because all of them were stonewalled at some point. Documents lost, requests refused, subpoenas ignored, bureaucrats hidden behind armies of lawyers and litigation. You can fault the GOP for making nine failed attempts at breaching the wall--that they should have known they'd never penetrate it--but to cite the failed attempts as proof that no wrongdoing occurred is a reach too far. I'm convinced the Mueller investigation will suffer the same fate. Nothing coming close to touching Pres. Trump, which his supporters will claim proves the 'Russian collusion' narrative is a witch hunt. But the truth is that we'll never know the truth.
You're assuming they were stonewalled. What if there was no 'there' there? Nothing criminal to find?
Oh, right, I forgot, it's the anti-Christ Hillary we're talking about. It will be different, when it's the lovely first daughter with the nice rack that's under scrutiny. Clearly, if Ivanka said she didn't know she wasn't supposed to do what she did (despite her daddy regularly shouting 'lock her up' at his presidential rallies for Hillary doing the exact same thing) we MUST believe her.
Besides, Daddy regularly makes phone calls over an unsecure cell phone - really, questionable unsecured emails really pale in comparison to that. And so far, not a single GOPer has said a word about Trump'sl phone.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2018 12:49:50 GMT -5
As for the 'facts' about Benghazi? I never cared. To me it was just 'umpteenth attack a Clinton for something'. ... This is the same reason Pres. Trump's base long since gave up caring about criticisms by the left. They grew sick to death of the criticism, became jaded, and would forgive the man anything just to spite his critics. Yours is a dysfunctional republic I can't see surviving another decade unless trends of the past 40 years suddenly and miraculously reverse themselves.
For anyone wishing to fall back to "politics has always been polarized": To wit: '"What I’ve found is that polarization has been steadily getting worse since the early 1970s," [Dr. Zachary Neal] said. "Today, we’ve hit the ceiling on polarization. At these levels, it will be difficult to make any progress on social or economic policies."'
This study in particular is noteworthy because it's based on hard data, as opposed to 'soft' survey data (i.e. people's perceptions of polarization).
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Nov 20, 2018 12:58:42 GMT -5
So I end up living in Cascadia. No big deal.
But just a note...The Trumpistas forgave Trump wayyyy before he had received any criticism for his crap job as POTUS. Why he could probably shoot someone to death on 5th avenue came back in Jan. 2016. The 'left', as you call it, had hardly gotten started. And if you really think Trump has come under fire similar to the 30 years and millions of federal dollars besmirching the Clintons, not even a subscription to Sciencedirect will help you.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 20, 2018 13:00:20 GMT -5
There were nine investigations because all of them were stonewalled at some point. Documents lost, requests refused, subpoenas ignored, bureaucrats hidden behind armies of lawyers and litigation. You can fault the GOP for making nine failed attempts at breaching the wall--that they should have known they'd never penetrate it--but to cite the failed attempts as proof that no wrongdoing occurred is a reach too far. I'm convinced the Mueller investigation will suffer the same fate. Nothing coming close to touching Pres. Trump, which his supporters will claim proves the 'Russian collusion' narrative is a witch hunt. But the truth is that we'll never know the truth.
You're assuming they were stonewalled. What if there was no 'there' there? Nothing criminal to find?
Oh, right, I forgot, it's the anti-Christ Hillary we're talking about. It will be different, when it's the lovely first daughter with the nice rack that's under scrutiny. Clearly, if Ivanka said she didn't know she wasn't supposed to do what she did (despite her daddy regularly shouting 'lock her up' at his presidential rallies for Hillary doing the exact same thing) we MUST believe her.
Besides, Daddy regularly makes phone calls over an unsecure cell phone - really, questionable unsecured emails really pale in comparison to that. And so far, not a single GOPer has said a word about Trump'sl phone. I know they were stonewalled. It's a matter of record. They jumped from investigation to investigation trying to secure sufficient authority to request classified info, compel delivery, and circumvent a host of legal impediments, and they never succeeded, even after nine attempts.
As for whether there was any wrongdoing to find, I'm making no pronouncement, either for or against. I'm simply saying that the failure of the nine investigations isn't the testament to Ms. Clinton's innocence some believe it to be.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 21, 2018 10:18:21 GMT -5
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 21, 2018 11:39:33 GMT -5
You're assuming they were stonewalled. What if there was no 'there' there? Nothing criminal to find?
Oh, right, I forgot, it's the anti-Christ Hillary we're talking about. It will be different, when it's the lovely first daughter with the nice rack that's under scrutiny. Clearly, if Ivanka said she didn't know she wasn't supposed to do what she did (despite her daddy regularly shouting 'lock her up' at his presidential rallies for Hillary doing the exact same thing) we MUST believe her.
Besides, Daddy regularly makes phone calls over an unsecure cell phone - really, questionable unsecured emails really pale in comparison to that. And so far, not a single GOPer has said a word about Trump'sl phone. I know they were stonewalled. It's a matter of record. They jumped from investigation to investigation trying to secure sufficient authority to request classified info, compel delivery, and circumvent a host of legal impediments, and they never succeeded, even after nine attempts.
As for whether there was any wrongdoing to find, I'm making no pronouncement, either for or against. I'm simply saying that the failure of the nine investigations isn't the testament to Ms. Clinton's innocence some believe it to be.
Oh please. You are giving the minority party way too much power... You want to see the majority party use power? Wait til Jan 3.
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