weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on May 31, 2018 22:08:08 GMT -5
Thought we'd just roll over and accept your ridiculous tariffs?
Canada retaliates against U.S. steel, aluminum tariffs, announces dollar-for-dollar ‘countermeasures’
WASHINGTON – Canada is imposing dollar-for-dollar tariff “countermeasures” on up to $16.6 billion worth of U.S. imports in response to the American decision to make good on its threat of similar tariffs against Canadian-made steel and aluminum.
globalnews.ca/news/4245336/canada-retaliation-us-steel-aluminum-tariffs/
I'm paraphrasing here.
Trump says "Do it my way or else!"
Trudeau says "Fuck you. You want a war, you've got one!
Mexico is also striking back, as is the EU. Enjoy.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on May 31, 2018 22:12:09 GMT -5
Ok
|
|
retread
Established Member
Tribbial Pursuit
Joined: Feb 12, 2018 17:54:45 GMT -5
Posts: 481
|
Post by retread on May 31, 2018 23:36:47 GMT -5
|
|
dezii
Distinguished Associate
Joined: May 18, 2017 14:26:36 GMT -5
Posts: 20,671
|
Post by dezii on Jun 1, 2018 9:04:37 GMT -5
opinion piece on the latest tariffs...He did say he would for go them on them for certain countries..Canada, Mexico but now says..."Sorry, no can do" This author feels it will cost jobs..Dow will come in lower...Seems a real trade war starting and it's with our friends and allies..It will take decades to correct this schism once he is no longer POTUS. ------------------------ www.yahoo.com/news/us-republicans-fume-over-trumps-steel-tariffs-allies-222250925.html============================= It seems that Trudeau is politely..[ he is a Canadian after all] telling Trump to p off regarding these Tariffs...was holding off as they are one of our largest and oldest trading partners...a allie in all of our many wars.. [ many that really didn't affect the Canadians really...thinking Nam, Iraq yet their own suffering casualties] =============================== www.yahoo.com/finance/news/trump-appeasement-fails-trudeau-takes-040013121.html
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jun 1, 2018 9:23:42 GMT -5
The Koreans in my business buy products from someone that brings that product in thru Mexico, avoiding the tariff on it, Not only that, they avoid paying sales tax on it also!
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2018 9:30:13 GMT -5
We will make OUR trade policies and other countries can make THEIRS.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 7:18:41 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 9:32:02 GMT -5
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2018 9:39:39 GMT -5
I like leather.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2018 9:40:52 GMT -5
Trump was elected precisely to kill the GOP establishment and drain the swamp. He is delivering. Cant' wait till Ryan is gone.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 7:18:41 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 9:48:51 GMT -5
Trump was elected precisely to kill the GOP establishment and drain the swamp. He is delivering. Cant' wait till Ryan is gone. So you are against Goldwater/Reagan and for Trump on the matter of protectionist policies?
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 1, 2018 9:51:15 GMT -5
Trump was elected precisely to kill the GOP establishment and drain the swamp. He is delivering. Cant' wait till Ryan is gone. So you are against Goldwater/Reagan and for Trump on the matter of protectionist policies? Different times. And, fair trade needs to be fair. We can clearly see that it is not. So, time to act.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 7:18:41 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 9:54:47 GMT -5
So you are against Goldwater/Reagan and for Trump on the matter of protectionist policies? Different times. And, fair trade needs to be fair. We can clearly see that it is not. So, time to act. How isn't it fair currently with Canada?
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,443
|
Post by thyme4change on Jun 1, 2018 10:00:11 GMT -5
If you need to buy any cheap shit, now is the time to do it.
|
|
OldCoyote
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:34:48 GMT -5
Posts: 13,449
|
Post by OldCoyote on Jun 1, 2018 10:03:04 GMT -5
Here is the best part, the "Party Of Trump" is still succeeding in spite of all the obstacles that the Left and the Regular GOP has thrown at it. Their only purpose is to try to cause Trump to fail. We are moving that direction because most of us are not the vocal right or left that scream at the top of their lungs about how bad it is! Business is up!
The Market is do well,
Unemployment is down. Taxes have been reduced. The Right to Experimental Drugs, for the fatality ill. Leveling the playing field for U.S. business. Negotiations with NK, is moving on,,where others have failed. will Un have more temper tantrums before the meeting? most likely, But Trump has called his bluff. Un knows it! Look forward to Trump in 2020. Now, if we could break his tweeter thumbs!
|
|
retread
Established Member
Tribbial Pursuit
Joined: Feb 12, 2018 17:54:45 GMT -5
Posts: 481
|
Post by retread on Jun 1, 2018 10:11:37 GMT -5
Pretty much the final stake in the heart of GOP That stake was already driven in a year and a half ago when Hillary won in a landslide over Donald and Pantsuit Nation took control. Oh wait . . .
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 7:18:41 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2018 10:18:45 GMT -5
Pretty much the final stake in the heart of GOP That stake was already driven in a year and a half ago when Hillary won in a landslide over Donald and Pantsuit Nation took control. Oh wait . . . Well, given I was pro-gop on trade/protectionist policies and voted gop this last election except Trump (not Hillary either) with the thought they may keep a lid on the national debt, I think your Hillary comment may be a bit misguided. I’m not an economic liberal aghast at Trumps economic policy, I’m an economic conservative. My views are strong enough they don’t waver at the sight of a bully, unlike the current crop of GOP.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 1, 2018 11:55:59 GMT -5
Different times. And, fair trade needs to be fair. We can clearly see that it is not. So, time to act. How isn't it fair currently with Canada? I assure you, nobody knows. For a while, Pres. Trump was asserting there was a trade deficit, but he eventually he admitted he had no idea. Your own economists have clearly proved there isn't. US importers are going to pay more. US exporters are going to sell less. The cost of everything you buy will increase, if only marginally. Canada exports a massive quantity of raw resources to the US for refinement, which you sell back to us at a hefty markup (the reason we pay twice as much at the pump for gas even though we're swimming in oil, for instance). But Canadians have long been worried about our heavy dependence on the US as an import/export market, and Pres. Trump's administration in particular has stoked the fires behind the movement to shift to domestic production, domestic capital, and overseas markets. This first salvo of trade protectionism is going to be gasoline on that fire. I know many would like to believe America is getting a raw deal with Canada. It purports to provide a simple solution for a complex problem. But it's a false doctrine. Both countries have benefited economically and politically from free exchange. These kinds of tariffs are destroying--perhaps irreparably--something universally good.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,464
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Jun 1, 2018 12:10:31 GMT -5
So, how long until the economy here crashes & burns? Or at least, it affects our people, as in those who can least afford a big increase in prices? Anyone care to make a wager?
|
|
dezii
Distinguished Associate
Joined: May 18, 2017 14:26:36 GMT -5
Posts: 20,671
|
Post by dezii on Jun 1, 2018 12:35:17 GMT -5
Trump was elected precisely to kill the GOP establishment and drain the swamp. He is delivering. Cant' wait till Ryan is gone. Lets see if I get this...this poster is claiming that the GOP establishment which I am guessing in her mind is all the elected congressional and Senate types are the enemies of the Donald...better that they are defeated, resigned, be gone...then they will be replaced by a new breed of GOP representatives that will be more placable...less concerned about being reelected and be subservient to the President... and what about the Democrats...they just hang in there quietly..? Don't quite get it...and since Donald lost the popular vote by quite a bit..and with his 500 days plus of doings since being sworn in are anything but smooth and tranquil, I question if this so called swamp is drying up very fast or thoroughly. What has Ryan got to do with it...seems to me , over all he has been a big supporter of the Donalds policies..He personally might not like the man but what does that have to do with anything we are discussing, plus how many from either side really care for the man...Ok , one here very much so, but over all in importance...??
|
|
dezii
Distinguished Associate
Joined: May 18, 2017 14:26:36 GMT -5
Posts: 20,671
|
Post by dezii on Jun 1, 2018 13:07:01 GMT -5
How isn't it fair currently with Canada? I assure you, nobody knows. For a while, Pres. Trump was asserting there was a trade deficit, but he eventually he admitted he had no idea. Your own economists have clearly proved there isn't. US importers are going to pay more. US exporters are going to sell less. The cost of everything you buy will increase, if only marginally. Canada exports a massive quantity of raw resources to the US for refinement, which you sell back to us at a hefty markup (the reason we pay twice as much at the pump for gas even though we're swimming in oil, for instance). But Canadians have long been worried about our heavy dependence on the US as an import/export market, and Pres. Trump's administration in particular has stoked the fires behind the movement to shift to domestic production, domestic capital, and overseas markets. This first salvo of trade protectionism is going to be gasoline on that fire. I know many would like to believe America is getting a raw deal with Canada. It purports to provide a simple solution for a complex problem. But it's a false doctrine. Both countries have benefited economically and politically from free exchange. These kinds of tariffs are destroying--perhaps irreparably--something universally good.
Virgil...I was going to post a question to u as to why doesn't Canada refine more of their oil and did a google first as to the whole question … Found the following article that explains it all very well if accurate.. It isn't just the cost, which is estimated at over $10 Billion...and should have been done 20 years ago if ever done .... Canada has 19 refineries, refines about 1/2 of their oil...article explains the distribution short fall in the country as well as the whole business... Personally I was thinking for the cost of a plant...if Canada forgo modernization of their Air Force say.....no F-35's.. [ who is really going to attack the country and Canada is really not into overseas adventures as it seems the USA and our Donald seems to be into]...but seems there is more to it then that,, I give Kudos to Trudeau to standing up to Donald..man has some big gonads IMHO... ------------------------------------------------------ oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Canada-Would-Rather-Export-Oil-Than-Refine-It.html
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 1, 2018 13:16:38 GMT -5
So you are against Goldwater/Reagan and for Trump on the matter of protectionist policies? Different times. And, fair trade needs to be fair. We can clearly see that it is not. So, time to act. Can you expound on that? In what ways is it not fair? Or do you just automatically believe everything that leaves Trump's silver lips? Even his own economic advisers have said he's wrong, and that you have a trade SURPLUS with Canada.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 1, 2018 14:01:39 GMT -5
How isn't it fair currently with Canada? I assure you, nobody knows. For a while, Pres. Trump was asserting there was a trade deficit, but he eventually he admitted he had no idea. Your own economists have clearly proved there isn't. US importers are going to pay more. US exporters are going to sell less. The cost of everything you buy will increase, if only marginally. Canada exports a massive quantity of raw resources to the US for refinement, which you sell back to us at a hefty markup (the reason we pay twice as much at the pump for gas even though we're swimming in oil, for instance). But Canadians have long been worried about our heavy dependence on the US as an import/export market, and Pres. Trump's administration in particular has stoked the fires behind the movement to shift to domestic production, domestic capital, and overseas markets. This first salvo of trade protectionism is going to be gasoline on that fire. I know many would like to believe America is getting a raw deal with Canada. It purports to provide a simple solution for a complex problem. But it's a false doctrine. Both countries have benefited economically and politically from free exchange. These kinds of tariffs are destroying--perhaps irreparably--something universally good.
This isn't quite correct. Current gas prices in WA are $3.79/gallon where we are. When I was in Canada (BC) last weekend, gas was around $1.26/liter. 4L > 1 US gallon, so your gas is about 25-30% less than the US. HOWEVER, this does not account for the difference in what your government taxes gas. Canada pays roughly $1.20/gallon in tax, the US 0.49.5/gallon.
|
|
Cheesy FL-Vol
Junior Associate
"Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -- Helen Keller
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:13:50 GMT -5
Posts: 6,795
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by Cheesy FL-Vol on Jun 1, 2018 14:15:29 GMT -5
I assure you, nobody knows. For a while, Pres. Trump was asserting there was a trade deficit, but he eventually he admitted he had no idea. Your own economists have clearly proved there isn't. US importers are going to pay more. US exporters are going to sell less. The cost of everything you buy will increase, if only marginally. Canada exports a massive quantity of raw resources to the US for refinement, which you sell back to us at a hefty markup (the reason we pay twice as much at the pump for gas even though we're swimming in oil, for instance). But Canadians have long been worried about our heavy dependence on the US as an import/export market, and Pres. Trump's administration in particular has stoked the fires behind the movement to shift to domestic production, domestic capital, and overseas markets. This first salvo of trade protectionism is going to be gasoline on that fire. I know many would like to believe America is getting a raw deal with Canada. It purports to provide a simple solution for a complex problem. But it's a false doctrine. Both countries have benefited economically and politically from free exchange. These kinds of tariffs are destroying--perhaps irreparably--something universally good.
This isn't quite correct. Current gas prices in WA are $3.79/gallon where we are. When I was in Canada (BC) last weekend, gas was around $1.26/liter. 4L > 1 US gallon, so your gas is about 25-30% less than the US. HOWEVER, this does not account for the difference in what your government taxes gas. Canada pays roughly $1.20/gallon in tax, the US 0.49.5/gallon. Is that $1.26 US or Canadian. Cuz if it is US, that would be more expensive than your area. 3.78541 liters/gal x 1.26 = $4.77/gal (is my math right?) Jes' sayin'
|
|
imawino
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 22:58:16 GMT -5
Posts: 5,359
|
Post by imawino on Jun 1, 2018 14:23:57 GMT -5
I assure you, nobody knows. For a while, Pres. Trump was asserting there was a trade deficit, but he eventually he admitted he had no idea. Your own economists have clearly proved there isn't. US importers are going to pay more. US exporters are going to sell less. The cost of everything you buy will increase, if only marginally. Canada exports a massive quantity of raw resources to the US for refinement, which you sell back to us at a hefty markup (the reason we pay twice as much at the pump for gas even though we're swimming in oil, for instance). But Canadians have long been worried about our heavy dependence on the US as an import/export market, and Pres. Trump's administration in particular has stoked the fires behind the movement to shift to domestic production, domestic capital, and overseas markets. This first salvo of trade protectionism is going to be gasoline on that fire. I know many would like to believe America is getting a raw deal with Canada. It purports to provide a simple solution for a complex problem. But it's a false doctrine. Both countries have benefited economically and politically from free exchange. These kinds of tariffs are destroying--perhaps irreparably--something universally good.
This isn't quite correct. Current gas prices in WA are $3.79/gallon where we are. When I was in Canada (BC) last weekend, gas was around $1.26/liter. 4L > 1 US gallon, so your gas is about 25-30% less than the US. HOWEVER, this does not account for the difference in what your government taxes gas. Canada pays roughly $1.20/gallon in tax, the US 0.49.5/gallon. I think your math is off! And taxes vary state by state.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jun 1, 2018 14:31:47 GMT -5
Different times. And, fair trade needs to be fair. We can clearly see that it is not. So, time to act. Can you expound on that? In what ways is it not fair? Or do you just automatically believe everything that leaves Trump's silver lips? Even his own economic advisers have said he's wrong, and that you have a trade SURPLUS with Canada. Shooby won't answer. She just parrots everything Trump says, without question.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 1, 2018 15:17:49 GMT -5
This isn't quite correct. Current gas prices in WA are $3.79/gallon where we are. When I was in Canada (BC) last weekend, gas was around $1.26/liter. 4L > 1 US gallon, so your gas is about 25-30% less than the US. HOWEVER, this does not account for the difference in what your government taxes gas. Canada pays roughly $1.20/gallon in tax, the US 0.49.5/gallon. Is that $1.26 US or Canadian. Cuz if it is US, that would be more expensive than your area. 3.78541 liters/gal x 1.26 = $4.77/gal (is my math right?) Jes' sayin' I was rounding up, roughly 4L is just over 1 gallon. Of course, gas in Canada is Canadian $$. Sorry....I meant more, not less. But if you count the roughly 27% exchange rate between US and Canadian currency, a Canadian buying gas in the US with Canadian $$ is going to pay just a little less than he pays at home.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 1, 2018 15:21:51 GMT -5
This isn't quite correct. Current gas prices in WA are $3.79/gallon where we are. When I was in Canada (BC) last weekend, gas was around $1.26/liter. 4L > 1 US gallon, so your gas is about 25-30% less than the US. HOWEVER, this does not account for the difference in what your government taxes gas. Canada pays roughly $1.20/gallon in tax, the US 0.49.5/gallon. I think your math is off! And taxes vary state by state.
Taxes vary by province too, but the site I got this info from took the average from Canadian provinces and states. My point was that the source of Canada’s increased gas price isnt caused by what the US refiners sell it back to Canada at. I agree, my math is off as I was doing it mentally.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 1, 2018 17:30:52 GMT -5
I assure you, nobody knows. For a while, Pres. Trump was asserting there was a trade deficit, but he eventually he admitted he had no idea. Your own economists have clearly proved there isn't. US importers are going to pay more. US exporters are going to sell less. The cost of everything you buy will increase, if only marginally. Canada exports a massive quantity of raw resources to the US for refinement, which you sell back to us at a hefty markup (the reason we pay twice as much at the pump for gas even though we're swimming in oil, for instance). But Canadians have long been worried about our heavy dependence on the US as an import/export market, and Pres. Trump's administration in particular has stoked the fires behind the movement to shift to domestic production, domestic capital, and overseas markets. This first salvo of trade protectionism is going to be gasoline on that fire. I know many would like to believe America is getting a raw deal with Canada. It purports to provide a simple solution for a complex problem. But it's a false doctrine. Both countries have benefited economically and politically from free exchange. These kinds of tariffs are destroying--perhaps irreparably--something universally good.
This isn't quite correct. Current gas prices in WA are $3.79/gallon where we are. When I was in Canada (BC) last weekend, gas was around $1.26/liter. 4L > 1 US gallon, so your gas is about 25-30% less than the US. HOWEVER, this does not account for the difference in what your government taxes gas. Canada pays roughly $1.20/gallon in tax, the US 0.49.5/gallon. Wolfram Alpha says it's 20% wrt what we pay here in BC, with the exchange rate factored in. I actually not nearly as bad as I thought. In any case, the rumblings of "Why are we shipping oil down to refineries in the US rather than refining it here?", "Why are we shipping ore down to the US rather than refining it here?", "Why are we [exporting anything unfinished] to the US rather than completing the production cycle here?", already grown loud during various trade disputes in the past, is rapidly crescendoing to a roar. The answer to why we do so much trade is obvious: we're a resource-based economy with a lot of cheap resources, America is a friendly, stable population juggernaut with 10 times the workforce and investment capital. If we relied on capitalist forces alone, the situation would evolve to precisely what we see now: Canada exporting plentiful resources to America where labour is plentiful, and the US balancing the equation by selling back manufactured goods more cheaply than Canada could make them. But naturally our producers compete with American producers, and American producers compete with our producers. That's how capitalism and free trade work. It's inevitable. In any case, I know these tariffs and posturing by Pres. Trump aren't supported by most Americans, and I don't want to breed enmity between the two sides. It's just... a deeply unfortunate decision. It's going to create strife and economic hardship on both sides of the border for no good reason.
|
|
Tiny
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 21:22:34 GMT -5
Posts: 13,374
|
Post by Tiny on Jun 1, 2018 22:09:48 GMT -5
So, how long until the economy here crashes & burns? Or at least, it affects our people, as in those who can least afford a big increase in prices? Anyone care to make a wager? I don't think there will be a crash and burn... it will be more subtle and will creep in and we will have time to adjust. I think it will be more of a 'boiling frog' thing. I'm gonna say in 2 years we will start seeing the results... whether we recognize them as consequences of what is done now well, we will just have to wait and see. We humans aren't really good at "history" type stuff.
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,937
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 4, 2018 17:16:29 GMT -5
We had a big trade war in 1930, when congress put tariffs on anyone shipping goods to the US, to help US workers keep their jobs. This was the Smoot-Hawley act.
Canada got into a fight on tariffs for eggs. US export of eggs to Canada fell to about 7900 dozen in 1932, down from 919,000 dozen in 1929. Total volume in the drop of US imports was 40% in the two years after Smoot-Hawley. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot%E2%80%93Hawley_Tariff_Act Consensus amount economist was it exacerbated the Great Depression. So - not such a great success.
I'm sure Trump's version will do wonderfully well, though, because all the economists think it .... well, maybe it will do well despite what the economists think.
|
|