The Value of P/CE

[tallguy]

May 2, 2018 7:54:00 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 1, 2018 21:21:19 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
Why not?  It fills time and gives me reason to follow things more. (1)

Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
The first two.  Inform and persuade.  Rational discourse has too few outlets already, so why not try to improve one?

Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
Don't plan to answer so that I don't leave people out.

Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
There are a number whose opinions I don't see anywhere else, but unfortunately they are shockingly devoid of facts. (2)

Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
I prefer to read those who express themselves well and can make a rational and factual argument.  The side doesn't matter much.  Extreme spin and outright falsehoods are never appealing. (3)

Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
Several.  Some lack integrity while others lack intelligence.  Some manage to blend the two failings. (4)

(1) Have you ever looked for other forums? What would you say is the key selling feature of P/CE on YMAM? What do we have to offer that other forums don't?

(2) Suppose we break down opposition material into four categories: i) objectively false claims, ii) conclusions that may be true, but are not properly supported by the facts at hand, iii) conclusions resting on moral/ideological judgments or values you disagree with, iv) speculative "blue sky" theories, hypotheses, etc. that ask "What if...?", "Isn't it possible..?" rather than asserting conclusions with confidence.

In general, which of these are categories you want to be exposed to, even if only to know what material exists out there?

In general, for each of these categories, would you prefer that the material be presented on P/CE (where it can be challenged), or that it be presented on another political forum where is isn't challenged? Pick exactly one of the two in each case. I'm looking for which is the lesser evil in your mind.

(3) Suppose you had to pick one of the two options. That is, if P/CE 1 contained only "posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual", and P/CE 2 contained only "posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy" (note: this isn't to say you necessarily disagree on truthfulness/accuracy, merely that it's possible), and you had to pick either P/CE 1 or P/CE 2, but not both, which would it be? I'm looking for the relative priority of the two in your mind.

(4) To confirm: you're saying regarding these members who "lack integrity" and/or "lack intelligence", you consider their contributions so objectionable you'd scrub them off the board and deny them a platform here?

As steff and Weltz have pointed out, I have a long memory and I don't hesitate to challenge people on logical inconsistencies and hypocrisy, even if it's manifest over years.

A man who'd scrub opponents off his favourite political/current affairs message board is taking up a particularly illiberal position. You're certain it's accurate and you want to go on record with it?

1)  Not really.  Reading comment sections of articles cured me of the general need to look for places to read and write.  There are an awful lot of stupid, twisted people out there.  I started on MSN and eventually migrated here.  The value (in terms of rational discussion) is that it is not open to the public so most of the extreme crackpots and trolls are either excluded first or known quickly.  A moderated board will be more civil.

2) i)  Objectively false claims are always objectionable, and those who knowingly proffer objectively false claims are unworthy of being read.
ii)  Conclusions that are reasonably possible but not supported by facts should be argued, but they will rarely change anyone's mind, and certainly not mine.  If someone wants to be taken seriously, bring facts without spin.  
iii)  Conclusions resting on moral/ideological judgments or values (whether I agree with them or not) cannot be assumed valid.  They are fine for an individual in the governance of their own life, but they are subjective and do/should not necessarily apply to society as a whole.  Societal rules should have an objective basis and benefit and be just for all. 
iv)  Speculative theories can go either way, depending on the slant.  Open, honest wonderings are fine.  Pushing an agenda goes the other way.  Either way, though, I am not particularly interested in such threads and would probably avoid them for the most part. 

3)  A board that is lacking in disagreement would quickly become uninteresting.  That said, your alternative is not better.  There are enough ways to argue a subject based on differing viewpoints and priorities.  You do not have to sacrifice truthfulness and accuracy of the facts.  As an example, there are issues where liberals and conservatives want to end up at roughly the same place.  They merely approach it from different sides.  Argue that.

4)  That was at least in part a joke.  It is true, however, that some posters have a contribution that is net negative, either by the posting of blatant falsehoods, insulting generalizations, outright trolling, or utter stupidity.  Would I regret their absence?  Not a bit.  But with all of my time here, there is only one person I have ever put on ignore, and that was temporary to give me a brief respite from reading stupid sh**.  My preference would be that everyone post rationally and honorably.  I am not naive enough to think everyone capable.       

[Virgil Showlion]

May 2, 2018 16:47:08 GMT -5 alwaysbeoptimizing said:

Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? I originally joined for the financial advice.  in the early years, the PCE was a nice extension, where i got to hear opinions from people who i somewhat knew and respected.

Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? I rarely do now, because you always get 6 replies to your comment tearing apart from every angle, it's just exhausting. (1)

Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? You, Zib, SCP

Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? Yours, DJ, a few others

Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
the former is more enjoyable.  the second is to be lauded and learned from, unfortunately most of the posts are "gotcha" posts, not discussions on issues.  they're things like "DT tells 2 million lies per second"  "democrats drive by houses and force abortions" etc.  i'm not talking post content, i'm talking THREAD TITLES that are not an opportunity to debate an issue, but just someone crapping on something. (2)

Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
I dunno, probably 5-6 would do it (3)

(1) What would you say is your standard for success? If you fail to persuade a soul in a given argument, is the argument a waste of your time?

(2) If you had to pick just one of the two, which would it be? As I said to tallguy, this question is about which of the two you give higher priority to.

(3) To confirm: you're saying you consider some members' contributions so objectionable you'd scrub them off the board and deny them a platform here? You're willing to go on record with this?

[sesfw]

A man who'd scrub opponents off his favourite political/current affairs message board is taking up a particularly illiberal position. You're certain it's accurate and you want to go on record with it?

Virgil ..... now you know why I was laughing at TG 

[Virgil Showlion]

So that it may never be said I'm unwilling to answer my own questions...

Why do you visit this message board, of all places you could go online?

Familiarity with the community. A sense of commitment. Higher quality discourse than I've found on other message boards. (The margin has narrowed over the years, mainly due to attrition. There's also been a shift away from discussions on ideas, which interest me, to discussions on people, which generally don't.)

1. Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
   
   When the community is in good form, the board is a useful resource for aggregating political/current affairs news, attacking issues from many different angles, and hosting debate to separate the ideological wheat from the chaff.
   
   
2. Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? A. Do you hope to inform people? B. Persuade people? C. Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? D. Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
   
   10% A; 80% C; 10% D.  That is, a few of my posts are to inform people (particularly when it comes to dispelling misconceptions); a few, including most of a satirical or rhetorical nature, are venting frustration with my fellow man; but the vast majority are intended, in one way or another, to test whether various beliefs and ideas stand up to scrutiny.
   
   
3. Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
   
   billisonboard, retread, GEL
   
   
4. Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
   
   SpaceCoastPaul, ahamburger, Tennesseer
   
   
5. Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
   
   If I had to pick just one of the two, without a doubt it would be (ii). I know what I believe and why I believe it. I want to know what I'm potentially missing or overlooking, as communicated by people who know what they believe and why they believe it.
   
   
6. Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
   
   None of our present members.
   

[Virgil Showlion]

May 2, 2018 18:26:58 GMT -5 sesfw said:

A man who'd scrub opponents off his favourite political/current affairs message board is taking up a particularly illiberal position. You're certain it's accurate and you want to go on record with it?

Virgil ..... now you know why I was laughing at TG 

In fairness to Tall, he does... sort of... disclaim his answer as tongue-in-cheek.

I'm going to assume his statement, "That was at least in part a joke," and subsequent explanation mean the following: although he believes certain members detract from the overall experience, he wouldn't wipe any of them off the board. He doesn't expressly say this, but it's a reasonable inference.

He can correct me if I'm wrong.

[tallguy]

May 2, 2018 19:17:43 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 2, 2018 18:26:58 GMT -5 sesfw said:

A man who'd scrub opponents off his favourite political/current affairs message board is taking up a particularly illiberal position. You're certain it's accurate and you want to go on record with it?

Virgil ..... now you know why I was laughing at TG 

In fairness to Tall, he does... sort of... disclaim his answer as tongue-in-cheek.

I'm going to assume his statement, "That was at least in part a joke," and subsequent explanation mean the following: although he believes certain members detract from the overall experience, he wouldn't wipe any of them off the board. He doesn't expressly say this, but it's a reasonable inference.

He can correct me if I'm wrong.

No, that's correct.  And the assurance that I don't even put any on ignore should verify it. 

[thyme4change]

May 2, 2018 9:47:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 2, 2018 9:24:17 GMT -5 swamp said:

questions 3 and 4 are like middle school slam books.

you write down who you don't like and i'll tell you who i don't like.    and then we will let everyone read them so we can talk about them.   No thanks. 

"...who you don't like..."?

Question 3 is asking who you tend to agree with the most. It's a positive thing. Somebody reads it and thinks, "Oh, I didn't know swamp generally agrees with me." Where on Earth does "who you don't like" come from?

Question 4 is also a positive, or at the very least neutral. Who brings the most novelty into your P/CE experience? Who exposes you to facts and ideas you don't come across often? I'll give you my list: Paul, Tenn, and Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger.

Oop. I must not like any of them. They expose me to new ideas. Commence shaming.

Come on. Be fair.

If, for whatever reason, you consider it an insult to name names for #3 and #4, please abstain. The point of those questions is to edify. Get members to realize they're exceptional in a way they'd consider good.

See Swamp. Virgil just wanted to tell you how wrong you are on your opinion that some of these questions could take this down to petty gossip and unnecessary mean spirited discussions of individual members.

[retread]

May 2, 2018 8:16:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 2, 2018 7:48:13 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

You don't want to "call people out" because you agree with them?

In my case, "most consistently" doesn't mean too much, but: billis, retread , and GEL.

Note that this is me agreeing with statements made by them. It's not necessarily reciprocal.

Thanks for tagging me.  I'll treat your OP as a questionnaire and put my responses in spoilers after each question.  I plan to go into detail, so it might be a while before I post it.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 3, 2018 11:25:32 GMT -5 retread said:

May 2, 2018 8:16:34 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You don't want to "call people out" because you agree with them?

In my case, "most consistently" doesn't mean too much, but: billis, retread , and GEL.

Note that this is me agreeing with statements made by them. It's not necessarily reciprocal.

Thanks for tagging me.  I'll treat your OP as a questionnaire and put my responses in spoilers after each question.  I plan to go into detail, so it might be a while before I post it.

Your participation would be most appreciated. Thank you.

[Bluerobin]

I just come because it "replaced" the old MSN boards, and the folks are generally more intelligent than on other boards.

[retread]

I probably should have spent more time on this, but perhaps you'll get something from it.

---

Why do you visit this message board, of all places you could go online?

SPOILER: Click to show

When you say "message board" that could mean the entire forum or just the two specific boards you refer to later.  I'll use the opportunity to use this question in reference to ymam in general.

I use the Support Board extensively for help with my home board. I happened to notice someone frolicking on the Spammy McSpam Spam thread on the General Board. Seemed like a totally chill dude with lots of style so I thought I'd take the link in his sig and follow him over here. Maybe there was a whole forum full of nice people with which I might have an occasional chat. Turns out it wasn't a dude, though. Even better. Provides an op to exercise my shameless flirtation skills. I've since found additional candidates here as recipients for my attention without intention. I've enjoyed that and apparently others have, too.

There are literally thousands of forums online to discuss politics and current events. Did you wind up here (or MSN) by happenstance, figure it was "good enough", and decide to stick around? Is there something unique about P/CE you've not found anywhere else?

Here are 6 questions for everybody, to get the brain juices flowing:

1. Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
   SPOILER: Click to show
   I'll treat P/CE to mean: the Politics Board and/or Current events Board.
   
   My first forays into those areas here were mostly just to explore the possibility for discussion on topics which are generally problematic. We avoid politics like the plague on my home forum and will continue to do so.
   
   I continue to read on occasion but generally only if a particular post catches my interest on the recent posts listing.
   
   
   
   
2. Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
   SPOILER: Click to show
   The subordinate questions are all valid reasons to suggest answers to the WHY. In my case, those result in a very weak yes to all, but more for the opportunity to get information or learn a bit through the exchange of ideas. But frankly, I feel like reading is a better course of action for me than active participation. The style of discussion on many threads is no more than just poo-flinging based on political affiliation.
   
   It's rare when an issue can be analyzed from differing points of view and polite rebuttal can be made from each side. There seems to be an overwhelming desire for people to prove their own view superior to anyone else's. And in doing so they take tangents in an effort to discredit others who have an opposing point of view.  When I read things like that, I find myself motivated to return same.  But that would only perpetuate the toxicity I abhor.
   
   
   
3. Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
   SPOILER: Click to show
   In my opinion, consistent agreement is of very small importance. For me, it's more about style. While I tend to agree with your point of view quite often, someone else you mentioned impresses me with the way she often replies. Green Eyed Lady has an uncanny knack of hitting the right level of being assertive but not aggressive. While the rest of us are unlikely to find that balance, it's worth aspiring to.
   
   
   
4. Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
   SPOILER: Click to show
   I'd rather not answer that one. Those people tend to be more the ones I don't want to see anywhere else. Including some who share my basic political orientation but are inarticulate and misguided on the importance of proving their point.
   
   But I'm guessing you're looking for answers on the positive side. Those who provide facts and opinions which have great value.  I don't have a comprehensive answer to that.  I don't spend much time in those areas and don't plan to much in the future.  I plan to take a less-is-more approach and perhaps make an occasional post on rare occasions when I see a subject where I might add something of value.
   
   
   
   
5. Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
   SPOILER: Click to show
   Passion has inherent value but can easily become counter-productive in a discussion.
   
   While it's pleasant to read someone with whom we consistently agree, factual accuracy is far more important in most cases.
   
   If we start with facts and compare opinions based on the situation, there's much to gain by understanding why our opinions differ. Everyone has a right to their opinion, no matter if those opinions are dissimilar to our own. Too many people are compelled to tell others they're wrong. And that only causes further alienation. We convince others to consider our opinions by acknowledging their right to theirs, then logically expressing why we've chosen to adopt a differing opinion.
   
   
   
6. Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
   

SPOILER: Click to show

Probably just one. I treasure him more than anyone else on the planet (other than my mother). But the unpleasantness and animosity inherent on a political board brings him sadness. He'd spend his time more productively by spreading cheer to others. Everyone would benefit.

(sorry, that might have been to much of a hint. but in this individual case, I reckon it won't cause any harm)

It's important that we all assess these things from time to time.

SPOILER: Click to show

I could not agree more. There might be some benefit from evaluating the responses and gleaning a few thoughts here and there to use in formulating a "guidelines" to be included in the stickies of the appropriate forums.

Rules tend to be focused on what NOT to do. While they are necessary and have great value in defining boundaries, they simply aren't enough in the greater scheme of things.

Guidelines can be a way to inspire best behavior and most productive ways of engaging in conversation.  Or perhaps "Guidelines" isn't even the best word to describe what I'm saying here.  But I'm sure you get the gist of what I mean.  A focus on the more positive ways we can approach the dialogue.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Thank you, retread.  That was a nice thing to say.

[toomuchreality]

Everyone and everything has value, it just isn't the same amount to everyone.

FWIW, which probably isn't much, I quite enjoy reading people's drunk posting most of the time! 

[Virgil Showlion]

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed reply, retread.

Your cryptic reply to (6) makes it sound as though you know a board member personally. It piques my curiosity since I thought you'd found us more or less randomly (consistent with your very first response), but the odds you'd wind up on the same obscure message board as a close friend, etc. are virtually nil.

Even so, probably best not to mention any names. We don't want to inadvertently embarrass somebody.

It will be a standing mystery.

[Deleted]

May 3, 2018 14:50:52 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Thank you, retread .  That was a nice thing to say.

I have to agree with his assessment of your "knack"... I wish I had that knack.

[Green Eyed Lady]

1.Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?

Different opinions mostly.  While I do have a number of friends with different opinions than mine, we don't always discuss politics when together.  It's very educational to hear other points of view from people you don't know - who will honestly post what they think - even if it's unpopular.  It's a way for me to actually study another point of view - especially when those points of view come from different parts of the country because I think that's important.  In Smalltown, USA, we don't see the same problems that people in other parts of the country see.  Other parts of the country might not see the same issues occurring in Smalltown, USA.  It's eye-opening.

2.Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?

At the beginning, I contributed to put forth other possibilities for consideration.  That's really not welcome here anymore.  So now?  I mostly post there to break up the circle youknowwhats.  I'm not especially proud of that, but if this board turns into the same people with the same mindset posting the same things over and over, it will no longer be educational - at least for me.  You can only see so much "Trump is just awful" or "Hillary is just awful", etc., and the same "yeah that" for so long before you become bored or frustrated that there are no new opinions offered - just a bunch of The Sky is Falling stuff.  I'm not here much anymore and that is why.  I hoped it would die down but it hasn't - and maybe for good reason - but it's still frustrating.


3.Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?

This is difficult because I'm seeing this question as not so much agreement, but rather admiration.  Of course you, Virgil.  We are, most times (and there are exceptions) on the same page.  Plus, you just make me laugh and I love to laugh.  You post and WHAMMO.  It's on!  I like the entertainment of people coming to your threads to tell you they aren't going to come to your threads. 

I admire the intelligence in retread's posts.  His opinions seem like they are well researched.  And yes, we usually agree.   His posts are polite and well written.  He isn't confrontational but is just putting something "out there" for consideration and that makes me want to consider it.  When someone can write something other than "Trump sucks", I'm going to read it and I'm going to look at it hard to see if there is information in there I haven't considered. 

I admire Richard's stamina!  He knows what he thinks and he stands behind it.  He doesn't usually let the silliness of the people who follow him around get to him.  His explanations are clear and concise and I have found him willing to admit he may be wrong if he feels that he may be.  That is something few people do and I admire that. 

I admire happyhoix' postings.  We don't always  agree, but happy is educated, intelligent and civil in her disagreement.  Since that is the case, it makes me want to consider her points of view before discarding them because they don't agree with mine.  Since that's my entire purpose here - to learn - I find that discourse invaluable.

And there is Miss T.  Miss T went to the School Of Hard Knocks and made something special of herself - all by herself.  She has viewpoints that come from places, hopefully, most people will never visit.  She is a valuable resource to those who have not had to learn a lot of things the hard way.  Plus, she's honest and open.  We can all learn much from her.

DJ...while we don't usually agree, I can listen to him.  He questions my posts with consideration and civility and makes me want to answer him instead of ignoring him.  He actually asks questions about my opinions rather than basically commenting to tell me I'm stupid or wrong with no desire for further information.  I wish I could be like that and I'm trying.  But?  Some stuff is just stupid and that's that!

I'm pretty certain that wasn't exactly the question you were asking, but it's why I admire these people and why I come here. 

4.Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?

Miss T for the reasons stated above.  Again, her viewpoint comes from a place most people don't ever visit.

Any poster who is much older or much younger than I am.  I find a wealth of experience on one side and a wealth of fresh eyes on the other.  Neither should be discounted as they are so valuable.


5.Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?

Those who are passionate about what they believe as long as that passion is actual passion and not hysteria.  Plus, that passion needs to come from a place of information and education - not just somebody going on and on about how much they hate....broccoli.


6.Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?

None.  There are people I ignore just as I'm sure they are those that ignore me.  That doesn't mean, however, that they will never have anything to contribute.  Even if they irritate me, they are still intelligent, well-informed people who have something to contribute.

[Green Eyed Lady]

May 3, 2018 23:09:10 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

May 3, 2018 14:50:52 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Thank you, retread .  That was a nice thing to say.

I have to agree with his assessment of your "knack"... I wish I had that knack.

Thank you, Richard. Also a very nice thing to say.

[Virgil Showlion]

That's the kind of post I'm looking for.

Something edifying that lights up the whole community a little bit.

[retread]

May 4, 2018 9:48:34 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

At the beginning, I contributed to put forth other possibilities for consideration.  That's really not welcome here anymore.  So now?  I mostly post there to break up the circle youknowwhats.  I'm not especially proud of that, but if this board turns into the same people with the same mindset posting the same things over and over, it will no longer be educational - at least for me.  You can only see so much "Trump is just awful" or "Hillary is just awful", etc., and the same "yeah that" for so long before you become bored or frustrated that there are no new opinions offered - just a bunch of The Sky is Falling stuff.  I'm not here much anymore and that is why.  I hoped it would die down but it hasn't - and maybe for good reason - but it's still frustrating.

I noticed we both took opportunities that were given to supply reasons for why we contribute and flipped the script and gave reasons as to why we are hesitant to post.  You were eloquent in the description of some of the activities which cause me to look away. 

I can offer some plausible reasons for the part I changed to bold. 
1 - PotUS had been a democrat, now we have a republican.  Change of power brings resentment.
2 - Current PotUS has a style that tends to be ... confrontational.  Let's leave it at that.

I think we must accept that quite a bit of venting is going to occur.  But the entire discussion environment is . . . would toxic be too strong a word?  It feels like every single thread is highly polarized. 

If you happen to see any well-framed thread which is likely to be discussed based on the issue rather than partisanship, I'd appreciate it if you tagged me.  I'll be glad to return the favor but honestly, I've stopped looking.  The only reason I noticed this thread was because I was tagged by Virgil. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

May 4, 2018 11:35:46 GMT -5 retread said:

May 4, 2018 9:48:34 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

At the beginning, I contributed to put forth other possibilities for consideration.  That's really not welcome here anymore.  So now?  I mostly post there to break up the circle youknowwhats.  I'm not especially proud of that, but if this board turns into the same people with the same mindset posting the same things over and over, it will no longer be educational - at least for me.  You can only see so much "Trump is just awful" or "Hillary is just awful", etc., and the same "yeah that" for so long before you become bored or frustrated that there are no new opinions offered - just a bunch of The Sky is Falling stuff.  I'm not here much anymore and that is why.  I hoped it would die down but it hasn't - and maybe for good reason - but it's still frustrating.

I noticed we both took opportunities that were given to supply reasons for why we contribute and flipped the script and gave reasons as to why we are hesitant to post.  You were eloquent in the description of some of the activities which cause me to look away. 

I can offer some plausible reasons for the part I changed to bold. 
1 - PotUS had been a democrat, now we have a republican.  Change of power brings resentment.
2 - Current PotUS has a style that tends to be ... confrontational.  Let's leave it at that.

I think we must accept that quite a bit of venting is going to occur.  But the entire discussion environment is . . . would toxic be too strong a word?  It feels like every single thread is highly polarized. 

If you happen to see any well-framed thread which is likely to be discussed based on the issue rather than partisanship, I'd appreciate it if you tagged me.  I'll be glad to return the favor but honestly, I've stopped looking.  The only reason I noticed this thread was because I was tagged by Virgil. 

Same here!  Virgil tagged me or you did or somebody did.  You are right about saying why we weren't here instead of why we were.  Now I sound kind of whiny in my previous post.  I did try to say why I was here more in the beginning but I don't want to make it sound like I'm complaining.  I can just elect to not come here instead of acting like that.  I do enjoy a bunch of people here very much.  I will tag you happily when I come across those threads.

ETA:  I would add that I find quite of few discussion threads that start out quite interesting and are actually asking for discussion.  It's my opinion there are some very informed, intelligent people here (even thought they aren't quite smart enough to agree with me completely).   It's just that it doesn't take very long for them to devolve into "that orange haired sunnofa...".  I wish that weren't the case but honestly?  What else can you say sometimes?  Some of this stuff defies civil discussion and I can understand that.

[Green Eyed Lady]

May 4, 2018 11:26:28 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That's the kind of post I'm looking for.

Something edifying that lights up the whole community a little bit.

Thank you! (I had to look up "edifying" to see if it was a good thing or a bad thing.)

[Pants]

Why do you visit this message board, of all places you could go online?



At this point, habit.


Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?


Sometimes I get lost on my way to the kids thread. Then I usually regret it, like accidentally slamming my fingers in a car door.

[mmhmm]

Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
I'm interested in what's going on in the world around me and in how others might perceive these events as opposed to how I might perceive them. I derive fodder for research into things happening and how they are presented and perceived by different sides/cultures.


Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
I don't contribute a great deal. I mostly read what others contribute. I'll not speak up unless I have some knowledge of the subject under discussion that I feel might be useful. I have no wish to persuade anyone. We're adults here and will form our own opinions and beliefs. I have learned from what I've gleaned from others over the years and adjusted my views to some extent in some areas.


Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
I'll leave this one. Naming names isn't my game. Even though the question begs a positive answer, if someone is left out the result, for them, might be negative.


Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
I can't think of anyone. I tend to wander the internet looking for different viewpoints so most things I read here I've seen something similar somewhere.


Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
I enjoy both pretty equally. I don't have to agree with something to find it interesting, or well-stated, or enlightening.


Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
I wouldn't "scrub" anyone. I'd like to see a lot less one-liner snark and baiting from some but that doesn't mean I'd want them gone.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Looks like your thread died in EE, Virgil.     So I'm bumping it in case anyone else wants to answer.

[Virgil Showlion]

Everything political dies on the weekend.

But thank you. Once a thread drops off the MRT page, it's invisible for all intents and purposes, especially on low-traffic boards like EE.

I suspect that everyone with an interest in answering the questions has already answered them.

[tallguy]

May 7, 2018 8:16:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Everything political dies on the weekend.

Yeah, it's almost like nobody wants to bother criticizing their government if it's not on their employer's dime.   

[Green Eyed Lady]

May 7, 2018 8:16:36 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Everything political dies on the weekend.

But thank you. Once a thread drops off the MRT page, it's invisible for all intents and purposes, especially on low-traffic boards like EE.

I suspect that everyone with an interest in answering the questions has already answered them.

You are probably right. I use the "new topics" page instead of a certain board. I know others do not do that. If I hadn't been tagged, I probably wouldn't have seen it since new topics tend to fall off the page fairly quickly unless people are replying one after the other.