Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 1, 2018 18:31:24 GMT -5
Why do you visit this message board, of all places you could go online? There are literally thousands of forums online to discuss politics and current events. Did you wind up here (or MSN) by happenstance, figure it was "good enough", and decide to stick around? Is there something unique about P/CE you've not found anywhere else? Here are 6 questions for everybody, to get the brain juices flowing: - Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
- Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
- Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
- Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
It's important that we all assess these things from time to time.
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steff
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Post by steff on May 1, 2018 18:50:58 GMT -5
I'll play your game. 1. Because I can & I like some people here 2. Because I can & I like to. 3. The group of friends that I chat with in private. 4. The group of friends that I chat with in private. 5. I read what I feel like reading on any given day. 6. There's only 1.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 1, 2018 19:06:00 GMT -5
Deeply insightful. Thanks.
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toomuchreality
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Post by toomuchreality on May 1, 2018 19:20:27 GMT -5
I'll play your game. 1. Because I can & I like some people here 2. Because I can & I like to. 3. The group of friends that I chat with in private. 4. The group of friends that I chat with in private. 5. I read what I feel like reading on any given day. 6. There's only 1. LMAO For the most part, I would say Except for #6... I can't think of anyone. But I don't hang out here much. I guess I could say, it's all because of YOU. How's that? Do you feel enlightened by my response?
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steff
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Post by steff on May 1, 2018 19:27:06 GMT -5
Deeply insightful. Thanks. It's all true. I just don't feel the need to give you information that you can then lecture me with it in epic 14 paragraph, point by point why I'm wrong for whatever reason you arbitrarily decide or listen to you tell me how I'm wrong based on what you believe, think, feel, pull out of your ass as if I should bow down to your self perceived brilliance.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 1, 2018 21:21:19 GMT -5
Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? Why not? It fills time and gives me reason to follow things more.
Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? The first two. Inform and persuade. Rational discourse has too few outlets already, so why not try to improve one?
Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? Don't plan to answer so that I don't leave people out.
Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? There are a number whose opinions I don't see anywhere else, but unfortunately they are shockingly devoid of facts.
Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy? I prefer to read those who express themselves well and can make a rational and factual argument. The side doesn't matter much. Extreme spin and outright falsehoods are never appealing.
Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub? Several. Some lack integrity while others lack intelligence. Some manage to blend the two failings.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on May 1, 2018 21:28:30 GMT -5
Some lack integrity while others lack intelligence.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 1, 2018 21:32:38 GMT -5
I will not play your game. You have a tendency to use information against people. Sometimes, years later.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 21:45:33 GMT -5
Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? Why not? It fills time and gives me reason to follow things more.Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? The first two. Inform and persuade. Rational discourse has too few outlets already, so why not try to improve one?Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? Don't plan to answer so that I don't leave people out.Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? There are a number whose opinions I don't see anywhere else, but unfortunately they are shockingly devoid of facts. Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy? I prefer to read those who express themselves well and can make a rational and factual argument. The side doesn't matter much. Extreme spin and outright falsehoods are never appealing. Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub? Several. Some lack integrity while others lack intelligence. Some manage to blend the two failings.I could have written this exact same set of answers... so I'm just going to quote and "yeah that" it. quoted [✔]
"yeah that"d [✔]
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on May 2, 2018 7:29:21 GMT -5
Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? Why not? It fills time and gives me reason to follow things more.Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? The first two. Inform and persuade. Rational discourse has too few outlets already, so why not try to improve one?Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? Don't plan to answer so that I don't leave people out.Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? There are a number whose opinions I don't see anywhere else, but unfortunately they are shockingly devoid of facts. Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy? I prefer to read those who express themselves well and can make a rational and factual argument. The side doesn't matter much. Extreme spin and outright falsehoods are never appealing. Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub? Several. Some lack integrity while others lack intelligence. Some manage to blend the two failings.Yes, I can say the same thing, only from a different side. Thank Goodness that I still work so I would not be on here 24 hours a day.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on May 2, 2018 7:48:13 GMT -5
- Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? I suspect I like this place because it's the only place I can openly discuss politics without offending my friends/family. Since I've lived in one area of the country for 30 years, it also lets me talk directly with people from places with different issues than my own - it's interesting to listen to people from the southwestern states talk about the immigration issue, for instance.
- Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? Venting, I think. I don't think adults change their opinions much.
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? Don't want to call people out.
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? Ditto.
- Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy? I like the well written, well documented posts and the ones with a snarky, dark sense of humor.
- Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub? I wouldn't get rid of anyone. What would be the purpose, to create a political board that only agreed with me? How boring would that be? I'd have to leave and find someplace else to argue politics. The best part of this board is the wide variety of ages, regional groups, political leanings, and opinions.
It's important that we all assess these things from time to time.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 7:54:00 GMT -5
Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? Why not? It fills time and gives me reason to follow things more. (1)Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? The first two. Inform and persuade. Rational discourse has too few outlets already, so why not try to improve one?Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? Don't plan to answer so that I don't leave people out.Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? There are a number whose opinions I don't see anywhere else, but unfortunately they are shockingly devoid of facts. (2)Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy? I prefer to read those who express themselves well and can make a rational and factual argument. The side doesn't matter much. Extreme spin and outright falsehoods are never appealing. (3)Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub? Several. Some lack integrity while others lack intelligence. Some manage to blend the two failings. (4) (1) Have you ever looked for other forums? What would you say is the key selling feature of P/CE on YMAM? What do we have to offer that other forums don't? (2) Suppose we break down opposition material into four categories: i) objectively false claims, ii) conclusions that may be true, but are not properly supported by the facts at hand, iii) conclusions resting on moral/ideological judgments or values you disagree with, iv) speculative "blue sky" theories, hypotheses, etc. that ask "What if...?", "Isn't it possible..?" rather than asserting conclusions with confidence. In general, which of these are categories you want to be exposed to, even if only to know what material exists out there? In general, for each of these categories, would you prefer that the material be presented on P/CE (where it can be challenged), or that it be presented on another political forum where is isn't challenged? Pick exactly one of the two in each case. I'm looking for which is the lesser evil in your mind. (3) Suppose you had to pick one of the two options. That is, if P/CE 1 contained only "posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual", and P/CE 2 contained only "posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy" (note: this isn't to say you necessarily disagree on truthfulness/accuracy, merely that it's possible), and you had to pick either P/CE 1 or P/CE 2, but not both, which would it be? I'm looking for the relative priority of the two in your mind. (4) To confirm: you're saying regarding these members who "lack integrity" and/or "lack intelligence", you consider their contributions so objectionable you'd scrub them off the board and deny them a platform here? As steff and Weltz have pointed out, I have a long memory and I don't hesitate to challenge people on logical inconsistencies and hypocrisy, even if it's manifest over years. A man who'd scrub opponents off his favourite political/current affairs message board is taking up a particularly illiberal position. You're certain it's accurate and you want to go on record with it?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 2, 2018 7:54:50 GMT -5
Why do you visit this message board, of all places you could go online? There are literally thousands of forums online to discuss politics and current events. Did you wind up here (or MSN) by happenstance, figure it was "good enough", and decide to stick around? Is there something unique about P/CE you've not found anywhere else? Here are 6 questions for everybody, to get the brain juices flowing: - Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
- Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
- Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
- Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
Without naming names, I would scrub posters who start threads like this on a politics or current events board and which have nothing at all to do with a current political or current event issue.
It's important that we all assess these things from time to time.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 8:16:34 GMT -5
- Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it? I suspect I like this place because it's the only place I can openly discuss politics without offending my friends/family. Since I've lived in one area of the country for 30 years, it also lets me talk directly with people from places with different issues than my own - it's interesting to listen to people from the southwestern states talk about the immigration issue, for instance.
- Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent? Venting, I think. I don't think adults change their opinions much.
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently? Don't want to call people out.
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else? Ditto.
- Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy? I like the well written, well documented posts and the ones with a snarky, dark sense of humor.
- Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub? I wouldn't get rid of anyone. What would be the purpose, to create a political board that only agreed with me? How boring would that be? I'd have to leave and find someplace else to argue politics. The best part of this board is the wide variety of ages, regional groups, political leanings, and opinions.
It's important that we all assess these things from time to time. You don't want to "call people out" because you agree with them? In my case, "most consistently" doesn't mean too much, but: billis, retread , and GEL. Note that this is me agreeing with statements made by them. It's not necessarily reciprocal.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 8:20:32 GMT -5
Why do you visit this message board, of all places you could go online? There are literally thousands of forums online to discuss politics and current events. Did you wind up here (or MSN) by happenstance, figure it was "good enough", and decide to stick around? Is there something unique about P/CE you've not found anywhere else? Here are 6 questions for everybody, to get the brain juices flowing: - Why do you read the P/CE board? What value do you derive from it?
- Why do you contribute to the P/CE board? Do you hope to inform people? Persuade people? Test your political theories/beliefs and gain an understanding of weaknesses and errors? Do you simply need an outlet to vent?
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose opinions you agree with most consistently?
- Who are the 3 P/CE posters whose contributions are most likely to contain facts and opinions you don't normally see anywhere else?
- Which do you prefer more: i) reading posts by members who generally share your opinions of what is true and factual, or ii) reading posts by members who are passionate about what they believe, even if you disagree on truthfulness/accuracy?
- Suppose you had the power to scrub the board of board members. There'd be no reprisals or consequences for you. It would be as though they suddenly decided to move to another message board. Don't name names or even hint at who you'd scrub, but how many members would you scrub?
Without naming names, I would scrub posters who start threads like this on a politics or current events board and which have nothing at all to do with a current political or current event issue.
It's important that we all assess these things from time to time. Where else should it go? EE? YMOT? Do you not think it a reasonable exception that a metadiscussion on a particular board be situated on that board?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 2, 2018 8:33:09 GMT -5
Where else should it go? EE? YMOT? Do you not think it a reasonable exception that a metadiscussion on a particular board be situated on that board? Threads get moved by the mods all the time because the subject matter has zero to do with the intent of a board. Wby should threads started by you, a mod, be an exception. Move it to the EE board. That is why that board was created. What will be done with the data you have collected with this thread? Will it just die like all the data you collected on the 'What Is Racism' thread you started last August. You have done nothing with it. And if you have done something with it, you still have not published the results.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 8:40:40 GMT -5
Where else should it go? EE? YMOT? Do you not think it a reasonable exception that a metadiscussion on a particular board be situated on that board? Threads get moved by the mods all the time because the subject matter has zero to do with the intent of a board. Wby should threads started by you, a mod, be an exception. Move it to the EE board. That is why that board was created. What will be done with the data you have collected with this thread? Will it just die like all the data you collected on the 'What Is Racism' thread you started last August. You have done nothing with it. And if you have done something with it, you still have not published the results. You are right. I should complete those two projects. The latter survey I don't apologize for because presenting the data has taken a considerable bit of programming that I can only complete an hour at a time here and there. You've asked for the tabulated results from the racism survey several times and I've promised to get it to you. The problem there is, again, getting two contiguous hours to compile and present everything, which I dread doing. But commitments are commitments. This thread isn't intended to be a survey. I'm not going to "do" anything with it. It's purely for sake of discussion. I will move it to EE at your request. Let it never be said I enjoy special privileges with respect to where my threads can go.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2018 8:43:59 GMT -5
Virgil, are you going to answer?
ETA: I wouldn't scrub anyone off the boards. Everyone has an equal right to be here. There is nothing stopping me from skipping their posts. And thinking they are a dumbass. There are a few people here I think are narcissists, sociopaths, or just plain jerks. They still have as much right to be here as I do.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 8:59:32 GMT -5
Virgil, are you going to answer? ETA: I wouldn't scrub anyone off the boards. Everyone has an equal right to be here. There is nothing stopping me from skipping their posts. And thinking they are a dumbass. There are a few people here I think are narcissists, sociopaths, or just plain jerks. They still have as much right to be here as I do. I'm accused of soapboxing when I answer my own questions. Unless somebody expresses an interest in knowing, I'll limit my disclosures. FWIW, neither would I. Sun Tzu and all that.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2018 9:00:53 GMT -5
Virgil, are you going to answer? ETA: I wouldn't scrub anyone off the boards. Everyone has an equal right to be here. There is nothing stopping me from skipping their posts. And thinking they are a dumbass. There are a few people here I think are narcissists, sociopaths, or just plain jerks. They still have as much right to be here as I do. I'm accused of soapboxing when I answer my own questions. Unless somebody expresses an interest in knowing, I'll limit my disclosures. FWIW, neither would I. Sun Tzu and all that. No, you soapbox when you write a screed telling us why our opinions are wrong. It's creepy to ask questions like this if you aren't also willing to put yourself out there.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 9:05:07 GMT -5
I'm accused of soapboxing when I answer my own questions. Unless somebody expresses an interest in knowing, I'll limit my disclosures. FWIW, neither would I. Sun Tzu and all that. No, you soapbox when you write a screed telling us why our opinions are wrong. It's creepy to ask questions like this if you aren't also willing to put yourself out there. I'll provide answers later today, then. But if/when I'm accused of being pretentious, subverting the peaceable order of the board, etc., it'll be your fault.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on May 2, 2018 9:05:47 GMT -5
I won’t be able to answer all your questions, it’s too much for my little brain to process all at once.
I came to this board through the old MSN board and find the discussion intellectually stimulating. I also learn quite a few things from the topics posted. When i’m getting bored, I try to come up with new topics to stimulate some discussion, trying to avoid extreme controversy, because I don’t have time to read everyone’s BS that goes nowhere.
Other than that I don’t hate any of the posters because I am able to mentally ignore posts that I find are in direct conflict with my beliefs, but they can still be entertaining. I also enjoy to connections I make with many of the posters, even though I have never met a single one, but hope to someday.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 2, 2018 9:13:54 GMT -5
(1) Have you ever looked for other forums? What would you say is the key selling feature of P/CE on YMAM? What do we have to offer that other forums don't? I did look around at one point. I stayed here. I guiltily admit it was style over substance. I love all the "bells and whistles" we have on this board. If another board has anything close, I didn't find it.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 2, 2018 9:22:18 GMT -5
You are already subverting the peaceable order of the board simply by asking questions three and four. Might as well go all in and give an example of what you are looking for and perhaps even reasons why you want to know/discuss this.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 2, 2018 9:24:17 GMT -5
questions 3 and 4 are like middle school slam books.
you write down who you don't like and i'll tell you who i don't like. and then we will let everyone read them so we can talk about them. No thanks.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 2, 2018 9:25:00 GMT -5
I haven't looked for another forum. I discuss politics here because its convenient and both YM and EE have less interesting traffic compared to years ago. I'm not so political I want to search out another forum, but if someone found a better one for me, I might check it out.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 2, 2018 9:46:12 GMT -5
I run a facility that is used by groups for various educational purposes. I got tired of being asked, "Can we move this table from this side of the room to that side?" I started telling groups, "Our one center rule is 'if it is reasonable you can do it. If it isn't reasonable, don't do it.'" Frequently I hear, "You don't want to say that to (insert name here)" so I add, "except (insert name here). He has to ask someone in the group if it is reasonable." I propose a like rule for Virgil Showlion . Whenever he hears the voices in his head say, "Here is a cool idea for a thread" he has to get moon/Laura 's permission before he starts it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 9:47:26 GMT -5
questions 3 and 4 are like middle school slam books. you write down who you don't like and i'll tell you who i don't like. and then we will let everyone read them so we can talk about them. No thanks. "...who you don't like..."? Question 3 is asking who you tend to agree with the most. It's a positive thing. Somebody reads it and thinks, "Oh, I didn't know swamp generally agrees with me." Where on Earth does "who you don't like" come from? Question 4 is also a positive, or at the very least neutral. Who brings the most novelty into your P/CE experience? Who exposes you to facts and ideas you don't come across often? I'll give you my list: Paul, Tenn, and Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger. Oop. I must not like any of them. They expose me to new ideas. Commence shaming. Come on. Be fair. If, for whatever reason, you consider it an insult to name names for #3 and #4, please abstain. The point of those questions is to edify. Get members to realize they're exceptional in a way they'd consider good.
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 2, 2018 9:48:17 GMT -5
I run a facility that is used by groups for various educational purposes. I got tired of being asked, "Can we move this table from this side of the room to that side?" I started telling groups, "Our one center rule is 'if it is reasonable you can do it. If it isn't reasonable, don't do it.'" Frequently I hear, "You don't want to say that to (insert name here)" so I add, "except (insert name here). He has to ask someone in the group if it is reasonable." I propose a like rule for Virgil Showlion . Whenever he hears the voices in his head say, "Here is a cool idea for a thread" he has to get moon/Laura 's permission before he starts it.
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happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,900
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Post by happyhoix on May 2, 2018 10:02:08 GMT -5
You don't want to "call people out" because you agree with them? In my case, "most consistently" doesn't mean too much, but: billis, retread , and GEL. Note that this is me agreeing with statements made by them. It's not necessarily reciprocal. I don't want to call people out because I agree with them because I don't want to leave anyone out.
There have been times I've agreed with pretty much everyone on here, on some issue.
Which fits with my theory that most of us are not that far apart on most issues. It's the details and drama that create the divisions.
I've also disagreed with something every single person on here has said, at one time or another. Sometimes, I go back and read something I wrote and realize I disagree with THAT, too. (That I blame on my failure to adequately express myself sometimes, mostly due to my tendency towards snark, or possibly drunk posting, or dementia).
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