Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 16:03:06 GMT -5
What else are they going to show you? The other 29 families telling them to sod off? Besides this, what else is a man going to say pinned in front of the camera? "You didn't know our son from Adam, you're not deeply grieved by his death--you can't possibly be, and your tributes are small solace."? He's a Canadian. He's going to say the courteous and appropriate thing. It doesn't mean total strangers putting out hockey sticks and knocking back an extra shot of bourbon "for the boys" is helping his emotional state. The few people who actually knew his son, were stakeholders in his life, and feel genuine grief at his passing: different story. One that has nothing to do with the media or 35 million people including you and me. For some people, empathic grief is, indeed, a reality. For those who aren't all that empathetic this is, often, unfathomable; however, it really does occur. Those who are highly empathetic will feel genuine grief at the loss of a child's life, or (for some) any life. These same empathetic people may also benefit from knowing others grieve with them because they understand the empathy behind that grief. Anyone who feels true empathic grief doesn't watch the news. They'd go insane in a week. Besides this, even if a victim's family becomes aware of it, how is the genuine empathic suffering of a complete stranger for the sake of their son's death conducive to the family's healing? Again I say: the intentions are mostly good, but with all factors considered, the bad outweighs the good.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 10, 2018 16:07:20 GMT -5
For some people, empathic grief is, indeed, a reality. For those who aren't all that empathetic this is, often, unfathomable; however, it really does occur. Those who are highly empathetic will feel genuine grief at the loss of a child's life, or (for some) any life. These same empathetic people may also benefit from knowing others grieve with them because they understand the empathy behind that grief. Anyone who feels true empathic grief doesn't watch the news. They'd go insane in a week. Besides this, even if a victim's family becomes aware of it, how is the genuine empathic suffering of a complete stranger for the sake of their son's death conducive to the family's healing? Again I say: the intentions are mostly good, but with all factors considered, the bad outweighs the good. That might be your opinion, Virgil; however, as you've said, empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. It's understandable you'd hold the opinion you hold. Not all will agree, though.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 16:19:14 GMT -5
Anyone who feels true empathic grief doesn't watch the news. They'd go insane in a week. Besides this, even if a victim's family becomes aware of it, how is the genuine empathic suffering of a complete stranger for the sake of their son's death conducive to the family's healing? Again I say: the intentions are mostly good, but with all factors considered, the bad outweighs the good. That might be your opinion, Virgil; however, as you've said, empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. It's understandable you'd hold the opinion you hold. Not all will agree, though. ^^This^^
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 10, 2018 16:32:54 GMT -5
For some people, empathic grief is, indeed, a reality. For those who aren't all that empathetic this is, often, unfathomable; however, it really does occur. Those who are highly empathetic will feel genuine grief at the loss of a child's life, or (for some) any life. These same empathetic people may also benefit from knowing others grieve with them because they understand the empathy behind that grief. Anyone who feels true empathic grief doesn't watch the news. They'd go insane in a week. Besides this, even if a victim's family becomes aware of it, how is the genuine empathic suffering of a complete stranger for the sake of their son's death conducive to the family's healing?Again I say: the intentions are mostly good, but with all factors considered, the bad outweighs the good. It gives me comfort to know people are thinking about me (or saying prayers for me) when life is hard. When my house blew down in a tornado and we had to check into a hotel, it was nice when the hotel clerk gave me a hug (I guess I looked like I needed one) and I didn't know her from Adam.
Not everyone likes expressions of sympathy. Some only want close friends and family to comfort them. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to experience grief. Your assumption that the victim's family wasn't helped by kind words from strangers is a false one - we don't know if they were helped or not. Only that you would not be helped by kind words from strangers.
Personally I don't understand why some people freak out and start screaming when they see a mouse. Mice don't bother me. I understand, however, that many other people don't like mice, and react very strongly to suddenly having one run across your foot in the garage. I'm not going to moan about how we need to go back to a time prior to Terminex when people stoically accepted mice in the house, however. It's ok if people have different emotional reactions to things than I do.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 17:01:20 GMT -5
Anyone who feels true empathic grief doesn't watch the news. They'd go insane in a week. Besides this, even if a victim's family becomes aware of it, how is the genuine empathic suffering of a complete stranger for the sake of their son's death conducive to the family's healing? Again I say: the intentions are mostly good, but with all factors considered, the bad outweighs the good. That might be your opinion, Virgil; however, as you've said, empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. It's understandable you'd hold the opinion you hold. Not all will agree, though. I empathize dearly. I simply have a much narrower view than you do on where empathy supersedes other priorities. Looking at society losing its collective mind, I worry far more often whether I'm too empathetic. Am I simply an emasculated, weak-willed product of my generation, or do I stand for something? It's a double-edged sword.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 17:05:14 GMT -5
That might be your opinion, Virgil; however, as you've said, empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. It's understandable you'd hold the opinion you hold. Not all will agree, though. I empathize dearly. I simply have a much narrower view than you do on where empathy supersedes other priorities. Looking at society losing its collective mind, I worry far more often whether I'm too empathetic. Am I simply an emasculated, weak-willed product of my generation, or do I stand for something? It's a double-edged sword. The only one losing his mind is you. Nobody else started a nasty thread like this. No, you're not too empathetic....not by a long shot.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 10, 2018 17:07:27 GMT -5
I call HLN 'the crime and grief news' because they over report crime and violence and other misfortune. They use to have Nancy Grace whip up her audience over the death of any white girl in the country. I can't watch them anymore. I think it is bad for your soul to dwell on that stuff.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 17:08:40 GMT -5
Anyone who feels true empathic grief doesn't watch the news. They'd go insane in a week. Besides this, even if a victim's family becomes aware of it, how is the genuine empathic suffering of a complete stranger for the sake of their son's death conducive to the family's healing?Again I say: the intentions are mostly good, but with all factors considered, the bad outweighs the good. It gives me comfort to know people are thinking about me (or saying prayers for me) when life is hard. When my house blew down in a tornado and we had to check into a hotel, it was nice when the hotel clerk gave me a hug (I guess I looked like I needed one) and I didn't know her from Adam.
Not everyone likes expressions of sympathy. Some only want close friends and family to comfort them. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to experience grief. Your assumption that the victim's family wasn't helped by kind words from strangers is a false one - we don't know if they were helped or not. Only that you would not be helped by kind words from strangers.
Personally I don't understand why some people freak out and start screaming when they see a mouse. Mice don't bother me. I understand, however, that many other people don't like mice, and react very strongly to suddenly having one run across your foot in the garage. I'm not going to moan about how we need to go back to a time prior to Terminex when people stoically accepted mice in the house, however. It's ok if people have different emotional reactions to things than I do. I'm not arguing there can categorically be no good in "grief porn". Simply that the bad outweighs the good, especially when we consider the observable public fallout.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 17:10:13 GMT -5
I empathize dearly. I simply have a much narrower view than you do on where empathy supersedes other priorities. Looking at society losing its collective mind, I worry far more often whether I'm too empathetic. Am I simply an emasculated, weak-willed product of my generation, or do I stand for something? It's a double-edged sword. The only one losing his mind is you. Nobody else started a nasty thread like this. No, you're not too empathetic....not by a long shot. Yeah, well... coming from anyone but you, that might tweak my conscience.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 17:31:16 GMT -5
It gives me comfort to know people are thinking about me (or saying prayers for me) when life is hard. When my house blew down in a tornado and we had to check into a hotel, it was nice when the hotel clerk gave me a hug (I guess I looked like I needed one) and I didn't know her from Adam.
Not everyone likes expressions of sympathy. Some only want close friends and family to comfort them. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to experience grief. Your assumption that the victim's family wasn't helped by kind words from strangers is a false one - we don't know if they were helped or not. Only that you would not be helped by kind words from strangers.
Personally I don't understand why some people freak out and start screaming when they see a mouse. Mice don't bother me. I understand, however, that many other people don't like mice, and react very strongly to suddenly having one run across your foot in the garage. I'm not going to moan about how we need to go back to a time prior to Terminex when people stoically accepted mice in the house, however. It's ok if people have different emotional reactions to things than I do. I'm not arguing there can categorically be no good in "grief porn". Simply that the bad outweighs the good, especially when we consider the observable public fallout. Yes, it's simply dreadful! The nerve of some people! Empathizing with the town, showing solidarity with #PutYourStickOut, sending messages of support and condolences and sending money to help with funerals and medical costs. The bastards!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Apr 10, 2018 17:42:37 GMT -5
That might be your opinion, Virgil; however, as you've said, empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. It's understandable you'd hold the opinion you hold. Not all will agree, though. I empathize dearly. I simply have a much narrower view than you do on where empathy supersedes other priorities. Looking at society losing its collective mind, I worry far more often whether I'm too empathetic. Am I simply an emasculated, weak-willed product of my generation, or do I stand for something? It's a double-edged sword. "Empathy is a big "needs improvement" area in my life. I have difficulty empathizing with people unless I know them well. I tend to think of the world as having too much empathy--too much tolerance, too much "cushioning the blow", too much back-patting and "it's not your fault"-ing--as part of my conservative character. This much I doubt will change. But I also lack empathy in situations where I reasonably acknowledge that empathy is appropriate. Part of it is because I'm a man, and part is because I'm an engineer, and part is because empathy doesn't come naturally. These are all just excuses, however, and if the bottom line is that I'm not empathetic enough, that's the bottom line." The above paragraph is from this post of yours, Virgil. I remembered it which is why I said empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. I definitely don't think you have to worry about being "too empathetic".
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Apr 10, 2018 18:00:00 GMT -5
Considering where the dead are from and where the accident happened, I wouldn't be surprised to find that I was only 2 steps away from someone directly affected by this. I'm not in touch with all of my family from the area so I may find in the end that I'm only 1 step away.
I can't speak to the motivation of anyone else but our local editor did a pretty good job of summing up my feelings on the matter. His title is a little hyperbolic for me but it makes sense for him.
Neil Godbout-Apr 10, 2018
One quote that expresses why I feel like I do.
"We all rode the bus. We've all sent our children on the bus."
One of our local teams is travelling down to Washington State for final playoffs. This accident has moved a fear of their loved ones from the background to the forefront of their thoughts.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. I am as indifferent to anyone's lack of understanding just as they are likely indifferent to my lack of understanding what's important to them. I must say if I whinged as much about the going-ons of my fellow beings as some people do, I'd have significantly more posts than I do.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 18:15:19 GMT -5
Considering where the dead are from and where the accident happened, I wouldn't be surprised to find that I was only 2 steps away from someone directly affected by this. I'm not in touch with all of my family from the area so I may find in the end that I'm only 1 step away.
I can't speak to the motivation of anyone else but our local editor did a pretty good job of summing up my feelings on the matter. His title is a little hyperbolic for me but it makes sense for him.
Neil Godbout-Apr 10, 2018
One quote that expresses why I feel like I do.
"We all rode the bus. We've all sent our children on the bus."
One of our local teams is travelling down to Washington State for final playoffs. This accident has moved a fear of their loved ones from the background to the forefront of their thoughts.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. I am as indifferent to anyone's lack of understanding just as they are likely indifferent to my lack of understanding what's important to them. I must say if I whinged as much about the going-ons of my fellow beings as some people do, I'd have significantly more posts than I do.
Well, that's just it! We're Canadian. We all rode the bus and we all sent our children on the bus. Playoff games, away games, hockey camps, etc. It could have been any one of us, and the grief would have been insurmountable. Virgil has no kids. I guess that's why he's being such a dick about this.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 18:17:24 GMT -5
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Apr 10, 2018 18:23:08 GMT -5
thanks for your restraint. and I'll be pulling my stick up from the basement tonight when I get home. thanks for this.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 18:29:57 GMT -5
Paralyzed from Saskatchewan bus crash, Ryan Straschnitzki plots return to ice Upon hearing the news that he was paralyzed from the waist down as a result of the horrific collision between his hockey team’s bus and a semi-truck, 18-year-old Ryan Straschnitzki told his father he would be switching sports. “When they told us, Ryan just looked at us and goes, ‘Dad, Olympic sledge hockey. I’ll get us the gold,” Tom Straschnitzki said. “I couldn’t fall apart there, I had to be strong for him but… that kid’s amazing. And those other kids are amazing also.” globalnews.ca/news/4134310/paralyzed-bus-crash-ryan-straschnitzki-sledge-hockey/Such remarkable resilience! We need stories like that.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 19:33:41 GMT -5
I empathize dearly. I simply have a much narrower view than you do on where empathy supersedes other priorities. Looking at society losing its collective mind, I worry far more often whether I'm too empathetic. Am I simply an emasculated, weak-willed product of my generation, or do I stand for something? It's a double-edged sword. "Empathy is a big "needs improvement" area in my life. I have difficulty empathizing with people unless I know them well. I tend to think of the world as having too much empathy--too much tolerance, too much "cushioning the blow", too much back-patting and "it's not your fault"-ing--as part of my conservative character. This much I doubt will change. But I also lack empathy in situations where I reasonably acknowledge that empathy is appropriate. Part of it is because I'm a man, and part is because I'm an engineer, and part is because empathy doesn't come naturally. These are all just excuses, however, and if the bottom line is that I'm not empathetic enough, that's the bottom line." The above paragraph is from this post of yours, Virgil. I remembered it which is why I said empathy isn't one of your strong characteristics. I definitely don't think you have to worry about being "too empathetic". You're keeping me honest, and that's good, but this isn't a "situation where I reasonably acknowledge that empathy is appropriate"--referring to the media response, superficial public tributes, etc. I made the above statement in response to a criticism that I crack jokes too readily, which is something I've been working to improve on. It's not even an issue of "appropriateness" per se. It's an issue of healthy versus unhealthy. Socially profitable versus unprofitable. Bearing good fruits versus bearing bad fruits. The more I'm exposed to "grief porn" and its effects, the more I'm convinced it bears bad fruits. It's a drug with side effects that outweigh its medicinal value. It's more complicated than "appropriate" or "inappropriate".
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 10, 2018 19:33:49 GMT -5
It gives me comfort to know people are thinking about me (or saying prayers for me) when life is hard. When my house blew down in a tornado and we had to check into a hotel, it was nice when the hotel clerk gave me a hug (I guess I looked like I needed one) and I didn't know her from Adam.
Not everyone likes expressions of sympathy. Some only want close friends and family to comfort them. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to experience grief. Your assumption that the victim's family wasn't helped by kind words from strangers is a false one - we don't know if they were helped or not. Only that you would not be helped by kind words from strangers.
Personally I don't understand why some people freak out and start screaming when they see a mouse. Mice don't bother me. I understand, however, that many other people don't like mice, and react very strongly to suddenly having one run across your foot in the garage. I'm not going to moan about how we need to go back to a time prior to Terminex when people stoically accepted mice in the house, however. It's ok if people have different emotional reactions to things than I do. I'm not arguing there can categorically be no good in "grief porn". Simply that the bad outweighs the good, especially when we consider the observable public fallout. The observable public fallout? Do you mean people crying and being sad?
Some people get a release from crying, especially when gathered in public areas to share their grief - they would call that a good benefit from 'grief porn' - not bad. Only people who prefer stoicism think it's bad.
I'm not sure why this even matters, though. Don't watch the stuff on TV, don't read about it, and if you're in a room where someone starts crying, you can always leave. Unless it's your wife, who will expect sympathy, probably no one else will care.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 19:36:16 GMT -5
Stories of resilience and indomitable spirit we need more of. But they're not grief porn.
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Apr 10, 2018 19:40:57 GMT -5
Considering where the dead are from and where the accident happened, I wouldn't be surprised to find that I was only 2 steps away from someone directly affected by this. I'm not in touch with all of my family from the area so I may find in the end that I'm only 1 step away.
I can't speak to the motivation of anyone else but our local editor did a pretty good job of summing up my feelings on the matter. His title is a little hyperbolic for me but it makes sense for him.
Neil Godbout-Apr 10, 2018
One quote that expresses why I feel like I do.
"We all rode the bus. We've all sent our children on the bus."
One of our local teams is travelling down to Washington State for final playoffs. This accident has moved a fear of their loved ones from the background to the forefront of their thoughts.
If you don't get it, you don't get it. I am as indifferent to anyone's lack of understanding just as they are likely indifferent to my lack of understanding what's important to them. I must say if I whinged as much about the going-ons of my fellow beings as some people do, I'd have significantly more posts than I do.
Well, that's just it! We're Canadian. We all rode the bus and we all sent our children on the bus. Playoff games, away games, hockey camps, etc. It could have been any one of us, and the grief would have been in surmountable. Virgil has no kids. I guess that's why he's being such a dick about this.I only know Virgil from what he posts to this board so take my thought FWIW. I don't think Virgil having children would fundamentally change his opinion on this. Not because I think he won't be a loving father but because I just don't think he's wired that way. He wouldn't be like the dad wiping tears from his own face while comforting his child on the way out of "The Fox and the Hound". He'd be like the mom looking at the rest of us in annoyance while snapping at her son "Oh for God's sake, stop crying. It's just a movie. What the Hell is wrong with People today?" Though without the profanity, of course.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 20:12:47 GMT -5
The observable public fallout? Do you mean people crying and being sad? I and others have already enumerated many pitfalls. - hysteria leading to irrational public policy
- exploitation of tragedy leading to propaganda, division, resentment, and even war
- covetousness and resentment stirred in millions whose loved ones' deaths go unnoticed by society
- unwelcome additional pressure on many families who want nothing more than to grieve privately; additional scrutiny; additional obligations to offer thanks, answer questions, expose private details
- inadvertent promotion of voyeuristic attitudes; the sensationalization of grief
- engendering of unprofitable (often destructive) attitudes: strife, contention, outrage
One that hasn't been mentioned:
- withdrawal; realization by the few families who actually appreciate national attention that their fellow countrymen in "grief" have an attention span of 1-3 days, which I imagine packs a severe punch when the three days is up
Bad fruits. Even without getting into privacy-related issues, which are not unsubstantial.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 10, 2018 20:29:25 GMT -5
Well, that's just it! We're Canadian. We all rode the bus and we all sent our children on the bus. Playoff games, away games, hockey camps, etc. It could have been any one of us, and the grief would have been in surmountable. Virgil has no kids. I guess that's why he's being such a dick about this.I only know Virgil from what he posts to this board so take my thought FWIW. I don't think Virgil having children would fundamentally change his opinion on this. Not because I think he won't be a loving father but because I just don't think he's wired that way. He wouldn't be like the dad wiping tears from his own face while comforting his child on the way out of "The Fox and the Hound". He'd be like the mom looking at the rest of us in annoyance while snapping at her son "Oh for God's sake, stop crying. It's just a movie. What the Hell is wrong with People today?" Though without the profanity, of course. I depends on the plot. I've never seen the movie. I like the approach of one of the ministers in my church. When he watches a non-vetted movie with his kids, he gets them to watch with an eye for what messages the director is trying to communicate. Then they discuss it afterward: What is it that the director wants you to believe? What assumptions does he want you to make? In what direction is he trying to pull you? In what ways is he exploiting his omnipotence in crafting action and consequence to influence your perception of reality? Aside from video games, film is the most subversive, manipulative medium known to man. Kids need to be aware of what they're being fed. The younger, the better. I don't know if "The Fox and the Hound" has objectionable morals (it would greatly surprise me if it did). If not, and it's tragic, let the kid cry. I cry at movies--far more often than I'd like.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 10, 2018 20:47:44 GMT -5
I disagree with this statement in general, not necessarily in regard to this particular incident. There are many who cannot (regardless of faith or lack of it) who feel they cannot go on after the loss of a loved one. Some fall into drug abuse, alcohol abuse, or take their own lives. I personally know a woman whose teenage daughter was killed in a car accident. She 2 months later she committed suicide. She could not move past the grief. Most people do move on though after a period of grieving, though I never thought my aunt would make it through when her 23 year old son died in a motorcycle accident. She was to the point they had to medicate her. She wouldn't leave the house for months. But eventually she came around and got back to living. She is now 76 and can talk about her son fondly. This is a woman who ran to the casket and laid on it as they were wheeling it down the aisle at the church.
I always say I don't think I could survive the death of one of my children but in the end, you don't have a choice.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 10, 2018 20:52:33 GMT -5
I can't watch news coverage of tragedies like this. Not because I don't have empathy but because I'm a mom and I can't help but think of my own children. But not just this accident. Anytime I hear of a child being killed or murdered, it just makes me want to hug my kids
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 10, 2018 21:22:56 GMT -5
The observable public fallout? Do you mean people crying and being sad? I and others have already enumerated many pitfalls. - hysteria leading to irrational public policy
- exploitation of tragedy leading to propaganda, division, resentment, and even war
- covetousness and resentment stirred in millions whose loved ones' deaths go unnoticed by society
- unwelcome additional pressure on many families who want nothing more than to grieve privately; additional scrutiny; additional obligations to offer thanks, answer questions, expose private details
- inadvertent promotion of voyeuristic attitudes; the sensationalization of grief
- engendering of unprofitable (often destructive) attitudes: strife, contention, outrage
One that hasn't been mentioned:
- withdrawal; realization by the few families who actually appreciate national attention that their fellow countrymen in "grief" have an attention span of 1-3 days, which I imagine packs a severe punch when the three days is up
Bad fruits. Even without getting into privacy-related issues, which are not unsubstantial.
Seems like you're the only one feeling resentment. Seems like you're the only one offended by this.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 11, 2018 7:04:29 GMT -5
Seems like you're the only one feeling resentment. Seems like you're the only one offended by this. Not every one of the pitfalls applies to every case of "grief porn". Nobody is exploiting this particular tragedy to ban hockey road trips, wage war on the trucking industry, or push other inane policies. It's also not giving glory and notoriety to terrorists, since it was accidental. Hence two of the biggest problems don't apply. Hopefully the media and public will butt out of whatever punishment is handed down to the truck driver. I also sincerely hope the Saskatchewan brass don't offer up somebody at the coroner's office as a public sacrifice for the misidentification. That's all we need in Canada: more trained medical professionals sitting on the dole, compliments of the media. Notwithstanding these and the pitfalls pertaining to the victims' families, this case is relatively benign. It stands out because of the media's sheer verve in stirring up as much grief and contention as possible, and because it's the first time I've ever seen health authorities officially tell reporters to sod off and stay away from victims' families.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Apr 11, 2018 7:13:24 GMT -5
The observable public fallout? Do you mean people crying and being sad? I and others have already enumerated many pitfalls. - hysteria leading to irrational public policy
- exploitation of tragedy leading to propaganda, division, resentment, and even war
- covetousness and resentment stirred in millions whose loved ones' deaths go unnoticed by society
- unwelcome additional pressure on many families who want nothing more than to grieve privately; additional scrutiny; additional obligations to offer thanks, answer questions, expose private details
- inadvertent promotion of voyeuristic attitudes; the sensationalization of grief
- engendering of unprofitable (often destructive) attitudes: strife, contention, outrage
One that hasn't been mentioned:
- withdrawal; realization by the few families who actually appreciate national attention that their fellow countrymen in "grief" have an attention span of 1-3 days, which I imagine packs a severe punch when the three days is up
Bad fruits. Even without getting into privacy-related issues, which are not unsubstantial.
You're greatly over exaggerating. Grief porn leading to war? Covetousness and resentment by millions whose loved ones didn't get much attention in death? Inadvertent promotion of voyeuristic attitudes?
I understand you find this distasteful. That doesn't also mean it's a social abnormality that will wreck civilization. There are other social speed bumps that I think are far more frightening to contemplate - for example, what will happen to all the truck drivers, taxi drivers, fast food workers, warehouse workers and retail employees when their jobs get replaced by robotics.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 11, 2018 8:12:17 GMT -5
It did in 2001 and 2003.
Couldn't speak a word against invading Iraq or Afghanistan. Here are the images of bodies being dragged from the rubble of the towers again, on a 24-hour loop.
The response to the Benghazi attack: grief porn. Years of it. Let's get the widow of one of the slain marines up on stage at the RNC and get her to cry for the cameras. Vote Trump! Can't speak against that. (The Democrats did it too, of course.)
Absolutely. Your beloved was just killed, nobody gives a damn, and lo the nation is sitting in sackcloth and ashes for the sake of somebody else's beloved. Even if you're in a rational state of mind--which isn't likely--it's hard not to feel resentment for the unfairness.
Often it manifests as resentment against different groups. Whites, blacks, Muslims, Christians, Americans, Mexicans, rich people, young people, or whoever is being lionized in the media while nobody bats an eyelash for your loss. Again, if you were in a rational and forgiving state of mind, you might reconsider whether the unfairness is truly the result of prejudice. You might reconsider whether begrudging other families their spotlight is moral and wise. But you're angry and suffering. Resentment is an extremely seductive trap to fall into, even years after the fact.
Convincing people that what is absolutely none of their business is their business. It deserves its own thread.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 11, 2018 8:38:31 GMT -5
It did in 2001 and 2003. Couldn't speak a word against invading Iraq or Afghanistan. Here are the images of bodies being dragged from the rubble of the towers again, on a 24-hour loop. ... Escalation in Syria could be next.
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Spellbound454
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"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Apr 11, 2018 8:43:23 GMT -5
I think its cultural
Some cultures employ professional wailers ... who make as much noise as they can in support of the relatives.
Western Countries tend to favour a quieter dignity
I'll agree that grieving in the public eye and sensational newspaper headlines can lead to feelings that the families are not being respected enough. How could a stranger possibly share the grief of the families?......... They don't know the dead person, or possibly know what the family is going through. It seems disrespectful, somehow.
Sympathies to the families and loved ones of those involved.
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