Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Apr 5, 2018 7:44:09 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 5, 2018 12:31:55 GMT -5
Sad story.
For all these young kids who are so through with this world, I wish I could whisk you all up and show you a better earthly world.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 5, 2018 13:55:49 GMT -5
I feel like those of us who are older and were bullied need to start banding together and show kids that there is life after bullying. School may seem like the whole world now but there are going to be so many experiences later in life that will surpass it.
That and we parents need to really get active as far as internet goes. No we cannot control everything they do but we can control a lot more than we think we can. In my day bullying happened at school and stayed at school it was pretty rare for it to bleed out into other areas of your life. Now bullies can follow you everywhere and people all over the world can join in. If kids aren't going to give up social media then we parents need to become more involved. We cannot sit around and claim we don't have time to learn and understand all this new fangled interwebz stuff.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Apr 5, 2018 16:31:58 GMT -5
Dont ya think a lot of that comes fom adults? Oh we dont agree so you are "deplorable" or a "nasty woman"? Plenty of nastiness modeled by adults.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 5, 2018 16:44:53 GMT -5
Dont ya think a lot of that comes fom adults? Oh we dont agree so you are "deplorable" or a "nasty woman"? Plenty of nastiness modeled by adults. Bullying was going on back when I attended grammar school in the 1950s, long before "nasty woman" and "deplorable" were used as bullying words. Bullying is nothing new. Only the primary means it is delivered: the internet.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Apr 5, 2018 16:58:56 GMT -5
Dont ya think a lot of that comes fom adults? Oh we dont agree so you are "deplorable" or a "nasty woman"? Plenty of nastiness modeled by adults. Why, yes! From the biggest bully of them all! Just turn on the TV, and there he is, spewing his insults and calling people names.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 5, 2018 18:15:47 GMT -5
"A North Dakota girl committed suicide March 21. Bullying was a factor. We think. "Her obituary, written by her foster parents who definitely didn't contribute to her suicide, cites bullying as the reason for her suicide. The obituary doesn't indicate what type of bullying occurred, who was involved, what it concerned, or who, if anybody, the girl spoke to about it. It does, however, entreat all parents to teach their children not to bully other children. "At this time, West Central Tribune is unable to confirm whether any bullying occurred, its nature, its severity, whether it was reciprocated, whether the bullies considered their actions to be bullying, whether the bullies' parents had previously instructed their children not to bully, or any other salient fact pertaining to the girl's death. We are confident, however, that the girl was a real person." West Central Tribune: the gold standard of journalism. Sorry. These well-intentioned-but-journalistically-lazy stories frustrate me. There wasn't a solitary bully in my schools growing up who didn't fall into one of three categories: - considered his/her bullying justified because it was reciprocated to some degree
- considered his/her bullying to be something other than bullying, usually with good reason
- didn't give a crap about the effects of bullying since the recipient deserved it (sic) whether it drove them to suicide or not
No d) wasn't aware bullying was wrong or could drive kids to suicide. We had entire units on it. Maybe it's still a great mystery in America.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Apr 5, 2018 18:26:53 GMT -5
The questions you ask, Virgil, are for the follow up investigation.
Suicide is the number one killer of youth in the Dakotas. Crushing all around.
Different day and time. I saw a medical doctor walking down the hallway. I could tell by the look on his face what he just signed off on.
Sensitivity training would not be needed in organizations if adults acted like adults.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 5, 2018 19:56:16 GMT -5
The questions you ask, Virgil, are for the follow up investigation. Assuming they actually conduct a follow-up investigation and answer the questions: good on them for that. This current piece provides nothing that isn't already stated in the obituary. It's also irresponsible in that the authors didn't bother to verify whether bullying was indeed the driving factor behind Ms. Houle's suicide (which they at least have the decency to admit in the preamble). I hear you thinking, "What's the harm in jumping the gun a bit?" Imagine you go toe-to-toe with me in an argument. Perhaps you say some things you shouldn't and a week later you're reading in the news, "Virgil committed suicide due to social media bullying. His family states he became increasingly depressed due to bullying and harassment on the social media website 'Your Money and More', and ultimately took his own life. They want the world to be aware of the realities of cyberbullying." Now, it could be I was suicidally depressed due to changes in brain chemistry, or abuse, or a combination of many factors. It could also be I was extraordinarily vulnerable at the moment you derided me and your comments indeed triggered my suicide, but you couldn't reasonably have known this. Whatever the actual cause(s) is/are, the West Central Tribune is reporting that bullying on YMAM is what killed me. Best case scenario for you: nobody takes an interest, and you merely feel guilty for not perceiving my state of mind. Worst case scenario: well-meaning but ignorant people do take an interest and harass you and anyone on YMAM who said anything inappropriate to me in recent years, ostensibly accusing them of my murder. And if it ultimately becomes public knowledge that you aren't all heartless cyberbullies, not only will the damage already be done, any future stories about cyberbullying are one step closer to Chicken Little in the minds of any readers. Fact checking and thoroughly researched stories matter. Sensitivity training would not be needed in organizations if adults acted like adults. In the sense that adults wouldn't antagonize others as readily, or wouldn't be as emotionally impacted when antagonized? Or both?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Apr 5, 2018 22:00:53 GMT -5
"A North Dakota girl committed suicide March 21. Bullying was a factor. We think. "Her obituary, written by her foster parents who definitely didn't contribute to her suicide, cites bullying as the reason for her suicide. The obituary doesn't indicate what type of bullying occurred, who was involved, what it concerned, or who, if anybody, the girl spoke to about it. It does, however, entreat all parents to teach their children not to bully other children. "At this time, West Central Tribune is unable to confirm whether any bullying occurred, its nature, its severity, whether it was reciprocated, whether the bullies considered their actions to be bullying, whether the bullies' parents had previously instructed their children not to bully, or any other salient fact pertaining to the girl's death. We are confident, however, that the girl was a real person." West Central Tribune: the gold standard of journalism. Sorry. These well-intentioned-but-journalistically-lazy stories frustrate me. There wasn't a solitary bully in my schools growing up who didn't fall into one of three categories: - considered his/her bullying justified because it was reciprocated to some degree
- considered his/her bullying to be something other than bullying, usually with good reason
- didn't give a crap about the effects of bullying since the recipient deserved it (sic) whether it drove them to suicide or not
No d) wasn't aware bullying was wrong or could drive kids to suicide. We had entire units on it. Maybe it's still a great mystery in America. There are times when you really make me feel sad for humanity. This is not a news story, where they are charged with reporting facts. This is a story about an obituary in another state. It is not the original which can be found here. The story is about the interest taken in that story, and the uncommon frankness of the obituary. It is about the family's hope to just maybe have something positive come out of their loss. It is human interest, not news. Can I stop there, please?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 5, 2018 22:52:33 GMT -5
"A North Dakota girl committed suicide March 21. Bullying was a factor. We think. "Her obituary, written by her foster parents who definitely didn't contribute to her suicide, cites bullying as the reason for her suicide. The obituary doesn't indicate what type of bullying occurred, who was involved, what it concerned, or who, if anybody, the girl spoke to about it. It does, however, entreat all parents to teach their children not to bully other children. "At this time, West Central Tribune is unable to confirm whether any bullying occurred, its nature, its severity, whether it was reciprocated, whether the bullies considered their actions to be bullying, whether the bullies' parents had previously instructed their children not to bully, or any other salient fact pertaining to the girl's death. We are confident, however, that the girl was a real person." West Central Tribune: the gold standard of journalism. Sorry. These well-intentioned-but-journalistically-lazy stories frustrate me. There wasn't a solitary bully in my schools growing up who didn't fall into one of three categories: - considered his/her bullying justified because it was reciprocated to some degree
- considered his/her bullying to be something other than bullying, usually with good reason
- didn't give a crap about the effects of bullying since the recipient deserved it (sic) whether it drove them to suicide or not
No d) wasn't aware bullying was wrong or could drive kids to suicide. We had entire units on it. Maybe it's still a great mystery in America. There are times when you really make me feel sad for humanity. (1) This is not a news story, where they are charged with reporting facts. (2) This is a story about an obituary in another state. It is not the original which can be found here. The story is about the interest taken in that story, and the uncommon frankness of the obituary. It is about the family's hope to just maybe have something positive come out of their loss. It is human interest, not news. (3)Can I stop there, please? - Ah, the warm embrace of the leading ad hominem. It's always nice to be absolutely certain it's the real tallguy I'm talking to. I salute you, sir.
- While "It's a human interest piece, so who cares if it's factual?" isn't a position I'd personally take on the record, your forthrightness about your lack of standards is most refreshing. For this I salute you again. x2
- I wish to salute you a third time, but alas I cannot. The potential hazards and fallout mentioned in Reply #8 persist regardless of whether the article constitutes "news" or not.
However, if I may be so bold as to presage your summary rejection of Reply #8--and in particular the idea that factually-inaccurate personal interest stories can potentially do more harm than good--then in anticipation of your boundless optimism, sir, I salute you a third time. x3
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retread
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Post by retread on Apr 5, 2018 23:24:26 GMT -5
Sorry. These well-intentioned-but-journalistically-lazy stories frustrate me. You seem rather generous, using a term with the root word 'journalism' in any way shape or form regarding these two writers. Some may characterize this as a 'human interest' story but it seems like the writers had little interest in the actual events experienced by the humans involved. Just taking an op to editorialize and throw a few keywords and questions, allowing the readers' imaginations to write much of the narrative. If you take the link immediately below the headline, By Emily Olson and Barry Amundson / Forum News Service you get this: "but perhaps bullying at school may have contributed to the tragedy."
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 6, 2018 4:07:06 GMT -5
So many people were bullied years ago that it seems odd if you werent. My parents guns were never locked up and although i was bullied for many years, the idea of killing myself or my oppressors never occured to me. Whats funny/not funny is that now these same bullies that made my school life hell on earth now think we’re best buds at reunion time. Which is coming up in august.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 6, 2018 5:52:08 GMT -5
So many people were bullied years ago that it seems odd if you werent. My parents guns were never locked up and although i was bullied for many years, the idea of killing myself or my oppressors never occured to me. Whats funny/not funny is that now these same bullies that made my school life hell on earth now think we’re best buds at reunion time. Which is coming up in august. The majority of bullying I came in contact with was so hard to pin down. In a simple world, all bullying would be of the overt, chronic, merciless, unprovoked, non-reciprocated variety where the bullies are fully aware they're making life miserable for a victim. This kind of bullying does exist, but of the three categories I've witnessed (see above) it was the rarest. Much more common was an asymmetrical war between two individuals or an individual and a group, where the more powerful of the two sides was (not surprisingly) unaware of or unconcerned with the asymmetry. Just as common were kids who simply didn't perceive how miserable they were making somebody. Instruction and admonishment certainly help in this regard, but even the most indoctrinated teenager (or adult, for that matter) will frequently err in judging how somebody else perceives their actions. We consider different things harmful, funny, etc., and react differently when we take offense. We have diverse insecurities and vulnerabilities. We have mental states known only to ourselves. It's not a simple issue, as your example here testifies to.
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zibazinski
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Bullying
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 6, 2018 5:56:21 GMT -5
So are we raising more mentally unstable children?
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Apr 6, 2018 6:25:57 GMT -5
So are we raising more mentally unstable children? I suspect the fact it is on the internet has made the bullying more intense. When I was in school, there were a few kids I didn't like and I avoided, and I got in a couple of fist fights on the playground, but the majority of the time I wasn't around them and didn't really think about them. It really didn't have any large impact on my life, and years later when one of the girls contacted me to apologize, I hadn't even noticed most of the stuff she was apologizing about.
With the internet and social media, I can see a bully impacting a kids life outside of school hours. If a kid is having problems at school and then they go home and a group of bullies is still attacking them on the internet, and they go to church and the church people have seen the internet stuff, I can see that they would feel completely surrounded.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Apr 6, 2018 8:42:04 GMT -5
I agree on the Internet/Social media aspect. I think it makes it easier for bullies to get others to bully the same person as well, so there is more people acting like asses and its more present than it was in the past.
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retread
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Post by retread on Apr 6, 2018 12:07:12 GMT -5
So are we raising more mentally unstable children? I suspect the fact it is on the internet has made the bullying more intense. When I was in school, there were a few kids I didn't like and I avoided, and I got in a couple of fist fights on the playground, but the majority of the time I wasn't around them and didn't really think about them. It really didn't have any large impact on my life, and years later when one of the girls contacted me to apologize, I hadn't even noticed most of the stuff she was apologizing about.
With the internet and social media, I can see a bully impacting a kids life outside of school hours. If a kid is having problems at school and then they go home and a group of bullies is still attacking them on the internet, and they go to church and the church people have seen the internet stuff, I can see that they would feel completely surrounded.
More intense doesn't sound quite right to me. I reckon there isn't anything more intense than the confrontation of a bully in-your-face up close and personal. Maybe 'more relentless' might be a more accurate assessment? Your point is well taken, though. And the internet is a convenient medium for gang-bullying by people who probably would not get involved in cases where the bullying occurred in the physical world.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Apr 6, 2018 12:34:14 GMT -5
Some of the nastiest back stabbing bullies I have seen are old women.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Apr 7, 2018 10:48:24 GMT -5
Sad story. Something similar happened here two weeks ago. A fourteen-year-old girl left her parents a note, telling them she loved them and knew they had tried, but the bullies at school were killing her. She hanged herself with her dad's belt.
I agree with Tennesseer that the bullies have always been out there. The difference was back then, we knew our bullies, and we could confront them on the playground or in the street. Parental involvement was a sometime thing, but mostly, Mom and Dad pretty much let us settle it between us kids. And once settled, that was usually it.
But the Internet is a whole different level of mean, and it is relentless. And what happens there, stays there. Social media posts don't go away, texts remain, pictures hang around. And it is all delivered anonymously. And much of it goes beyond the scope of just two people feuding. Friends, and friends of friends get involved because everyone is interconnected on each other's accounts.
And parenting IS different now. We never knew about overprotective, helicopter-type parents back then, unless the child was physically or mentally incapable of being on their own. Now parents want to be part of their kids' team and prevent the boogeymen from getting in to harm their children. I get that there is a lot of bad out there, but the bad has always been there. The 24/7 news cycle has heightened the fear, but not necessarily the level or frequency of violence; back then, we didn't know what we didn't know.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Apr 7, 2018 13:55:02 GMT -5
Dont ya think a lot of that comes fom adults? Oh we dont agree so you are "deplorable" or a "nasty woman"? Plenty of nastiness modeled by adults. I wear my nastywoman label with pride and find bullies deplorable!
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Apr 8, 2018 12:30:30 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 9, 2018 6:22:38 GMT -5
Rape isn't bullying. It's rape. The article is behind a paywall. Is it talking about Taharrush?
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Apr 9, 2018 11:38:03 GMT -5
Rape isn't bullying. It's rape. The article is behind a paywall. Is it talking about Taharrush? The paper usually allows a few pages read for free. I apologize. It's a long article. I tried to copy it and couldn't. These are children. Being in fear of gym class because of this is bullying especially when just seeing the perps in the hallway. Their posturing or just a look. Snide remarks. The whole bag of bullying worms leading up to the assaults.
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