Help! What to say when you have been fired?

[thyme4change]

I believe...that unfortunately, there is no one right answer that we can just blab out. If he says reduction in force, and they call and it wasn't a RIF - he's dead in the water on that lead - so I would be careful using that one.

I would set aside a fair chunk of time each day for a week. I would try and figure out what exactly happened - and yes, you are the right person to do this - he is probably too close to the situation and too emotional about it. I don't think "my boss was gunning for me" will work. Most likely because the boss was gunning at him for some reason. Was he promoted beyond his abilities? Was the job description changed? Is your friend difficult to work with? Personality difference? Etc. Try and find as many positives from the work experience as possible. Help your friend identify his strengths and weaknesses and craft a good story - which is the truth, but puts the best spin on it.

Here are some well crafted, but true stories.

• I left my previous job under some turmoil. I had really enjoyed the job and the company, but there were a lot of changes going on. Looking back, I see that everyone was a little panicked about the changes, and I made some flubs that didn't help either my situation or the situation for my boss and coworkers. Now that I have a little distance on things, I have really learned how to identify organizational issues and the emotional state of people around me. I know I will react differently the next time I'm put in a similar situation. It is unfortunate that my employment ended badly there, because I learned so much and had so many great accomplishments there, including building a database and reporting system that housed all the sales information from 6 different operating systems, creating a quarterly book with all the financial statements in it, training regional personnel how to use the P&L to manage their branches better and being part of a company that built from nothing, up to $10M in 4 years.
  
  
  
• I will admit that I struggled at the end of my previous employment. Usually I'm able to stand behind my managers and the leaders of the company - even when they change directions. I've always found positive aspects on the direction they want to go. However, I really didn't see how the direction our company was heading was going to be profitable. I had trouble with certain projects because I felt they were so detrimental to the business. I tried working with my boss, but due to an unfortunate, and uncharacteristic clash of personalities, she was never able to explain to me how the project would help the company and bring profits and prosperity. Looking back, I should have backed out and let the company hire someone who was on-board, but I was hoping that I would have the epiphany and see the vision. It is sad, because I had some projects and accomplishments there that I am so proud of, including converting our operating system and cleaning all of data so it could be usable to everyone, creating a monthly executive reporting package that was used to guide management's decisions, and being a part of the team that made decisions for our $200M business unit.
  

In both of these examples, I gave the truth, took responsibility, and indicated that I had learned something. I also ended by stressing accomplishments - not the bad ending.

Your friend needs to write a script and then tell the story to you or the mirror or someone else 3 or 4 or 5 times a day. He needs to do it until he believes it. Until he can say it without accidentally slipping and getting mad or blaming someone else.

There is no easy answer - it will take hard work to find the positive in the situation, but a future employer will appreciate a worker that can recover.

[Deleted]

The way they get around asking/answering verboten questions is to ask "Is this person eligible for rehire?" If the answer is yes, fine and usually means the person left under their own steam or was laid off through no fault of their own and did a good job while there. If the answer is no, not so fine and usually means the person left under a cloud, did a bad job, p*ssed in somebody's Wheaties.

[Firebird]

I'm not a hiring manager, but personally I'd be impressed by someone who was fired and took responsibility for their own part in whatever led to the firing without beating around the bush or making excuses. In general, I think I would prefer someone who made a serious mistake and owned up to it over someone who got fired over a series of petty missteps, didn't learn the error of his/her ways, and badmouthed the company to me. I hate whiners and I REALLY hate people who don't take responsibility for their own bad situations.

Bonus points if they had enough in their EF to cover them during the unexpected period of unemployment ;D

[wvugurl26]

I said it wasn't a good fit. And that was the truth. On applications/my background investigation papers, I did state that I had been fired from this job on such and such date and here's why.

It was a public accounting firm and partner tried to move me to other two groups but they were fully staffed. Said they wouldn't fight unemployment claim and they didn't when I finally had to file bc I couldn't find a job. I didn't take boss up on his offer to write me a recommendation letter but he did sign off on my experience form for cpa license earlier this month.

[busymom]

I wouldn't use the phrase "the boss had it in for me". It sounds too much like you're a trouble-maker. I'd use a comment more like "the boss had his personal favorites, unfortunately, I wasn't one of them, in spite of my efforts to please him."

[Firebird]

I wouldn't use the phrase "the boss had it in for me". It sounds too much like you're a trouble-maker. I'd use a comment more like "the boss had his personal favorites, unfortunately, I wasn't one of them, in spite of my efforts to please him."

I wouldn't touch either sentence with a ten foot pole. I would hear the latter one as, "I didn't want to do my work and so I had to hunt for a plausible story about being persecuted when I got fired."

I have my personal favorites among my team too. They're the ones who do their work competently and without complaining.

[princessleia]

Thanks, guys and gals for your input. Thank you, esp. Thyme4Change for taking the time to give the detailed input and excellent ideas. If anybody else has a encouraging story esp. when sb's been fired before and now doing well, let me know.

[Deleted]

Mar 29, 2011 21:50:16 GMT -5 princessleia said:

Thanks, guys and gals for your input. Thank you, esp. Thyme4Change for taking the time to give the detailed input and excellent ideas. If anybody else has a encouraging story esp. when sb's been fired before and now doing well, let me know.

I really liked thyme4change's basic formula, too. "This is what I did wrong, this is what I learned, this is what I'm looking forward to being able to do for your company."

In my case, I was downsized and when I look back at it, I'd gotten stagnant and was doing the same work that younger (cheaper) people were doing. When they decided to downsize before an IPO, I was a logical choice. I sure wish someone would have seen it coming because I didn't- maybe a little coaching would have prevented it. (That sentence would not go into a job interview, of course). I learned not to let myself get stagnant. This is pretty much what I told HR here and they hired me. That was 8 years ago.

[hoops902]

"yes, legally the place is supposed to give info that this guy has worked from x date to y date and no other details. But you never know if they might just drop innuendos, right? "

Unless it has changed recently I don't think this is true. Most companies will only give this info because they don't want to deal with the hassle of lawsuits from former employees. Legally though they can say plenty more though if they like. It's just a more convenient corporate policy to give simple provable facts.

[Firebird]

Sroo - WTF?

[yclept]

First off, it is somewhat important to know the official HR stance of the terminating company because it affects waiting periods for unemployment insurance. The HR department is required by law (at least where I live) to advise a terminated employee of the official cause for discharge. If laid-off, one qualifies immediately for unemployment, if fired for cause or if one quit, there is a waiting period (where I live). In a discharge-for-cause, the former employer can dispute the unemployment claim, and unemployment benefits may never be awarded if the Unemployment Office finds the discharge-for-cause valid. Virtually all companies will classify termination as a lay-off unless there was an egregious and provable breach of law or conduct -- stealing, unexcused absence (with documented warnings for same), assault and battery, are the types of actions that a company will usually deem defensible against a lawsuit by the former employee, and thus classify as firing for cause.
As to references, nowadays (and for about the last 20 years or so) no company of any degree of sophistication gives information beyond period of employment. The reason being they fear lawsuits. If they give a good reference for a slug, they open themselves to lawsuit by a future employer who claims to have relied on that information. If they give a bad reference, they open themselves to lawsuit by the former employee. In either case, it's not worth the risk; the costs of answering the suit (even if settled) exceed any benefit that could possibly accrue to the former employer, so why should they bother? Even small companies have virtually all wised up to the fact that all they want to give is basic employment duration of former employees.
Of course there's still the "good-ol-boy" network within some industries where business acquaintances might give "off-the-record" information about former employees (usually without the knowledge or approval of HR). There's nothing much a job applicant can do about that since it's not provable unless the interviewing manager at the prospective new employer is very stupid and torpedoes his buddy at the other company -- even then, there's almost never any documentation.
The only real answer to any of these situations is to be a good employee (if one decides to work for wages) such that if an employer needs to cut back force, one would leave them with the attitude that they are sorry to have let one go, and would be willing to hire one back when conditions allow. This has the added benefit of positive influence on the "good-ol'-boy" network should it come into play. A manager who was sorry to lose a good employee almost always wants to do whatever they can to help them get employed, and wants to maintain their friendly relationship with the alternate employer by recommending someone they know to be a good employee.

[thyme4change]

Of course there's still the "good-ol-boy" network within some industries where business acquaintances might give "off-the-record" information about former employees (usually without the knowledge or approval of HR).

This is the good part of our mobil workforce. I have a bunch of previous bosses, employees and co-workers who no longer work for our mutual company. So, I have a list of references that aren't bound by any corporate policies.

[Firebird]

Wow, sroo. I wish you could have videotaped some of these interviews. In fact, this could be the premise for a really interesting reality show.

[thyme4change]

Post 40 is hilarious.