princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 15:15:21 GMT -5
Not for misconduct though.....So, what to say to the prospective employer when they asked you, 'Why did you leave your job?' Anybody who's been there before or any hiring managers, let me know how to handle the situation/question. Much appreciated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 15:17:21 GMT -5
why were you fired?
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strider
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Post by strider on Mar 29, 2011 15:18:09 GMT -5
"I was recently laid off due to budgetary concerns."
Unfortunately it can be a stigma no matter which way you cut it.
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 15:25:44 GMT -5
No...it's not me. It's for a close friend. I believe the boss just had it in my friend and look for every possible excuse/reason to nail him. He tried his best to make it work but it just didn't panned out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 15:27:15 GMT -5
No...it's not me. It's for a close friend. I believe the boss just had it in my friend and look for every possible excuse/reason to nail him. He tried his best to make it work but it just didn't panned out. The laid off reason could work. it all depends on whether a perspective employer calls up his former employer and if they do whether his former employer says he was fired for cause.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 15:27:41 GMT -5
No...it's not me. It's for a close friend. I believe the boss just had it in my friend and look for every possible excuse/reason to nail him. He tried his best to make it work but it just didn't panned out. The laid off reason could work. it all depends on whether a perspective employer calls up his former employer and if they do whether his former employer says he was fired for cause.
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strider
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Post by strider on Mar 29, 2011 15:28:42 GMT -5
I would absolutely get amazing references from former coworkers. The boss won't give much cooperation but maybe they'll talk your friend up a bit when the employer asks about him.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 29, 2011 15:39:55 GMT -5
Archie! What is the reason of firing have to do with OP's question? Do you ever just answer a question? All I can see is that YOU are asking a following questions instead of just not typing ANYTHING!!! So it goes as in Bambi...if you don't have an answer - don't type anything. OK Arch? Thanks for your cooperation.
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Post by illinicheme on Mar 29, 2011 15:42:55 GMT -5
Archie! What is the reason of firing have to do with OP's question? Do you ever just answer a question? All I can see is that YOU are asking a following questions instead of just not typing ANYTHING!!! So it goes as in Bambi...if you don't have an answer - don't type anything. OK Arch? Thanks for your cooperation. What's wrong with asking a follow-up question? Why someone was fired has a lot to do with how to spin it with potential new employers. Especially since lots of folks use "fired" and "laid off" interchangeably. It's much easier to explain that you were RIF-ed than it is to explain you were fired for cause.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2011 15:43:19 GMT -5
The job wasn't a good fit, it needed someone with more experience/knowledge/whatever than I currently have.
There there is really no foolproof reason. I'd recommend tweaking the reason to each job he is interviewed for and don't offer up anything unless asked directly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 15:49:49 GMT -5
I think Archie's question was a valid one.
If you get fired, it is for cause. Otherwise you get laid off, have your position eliminated, etc.
I think you'll get some sympathy for a lay off, but getting fired will definitely carry a stigma in this economy.
Somehow your friend needs to hit the note of "it's not me, it's them" without sounding like they are badmouthing their former employer (another kind of red flag).
If they could honestly swing something like "I wasn't the right fit for Company X. I bring a lot of enthusiasm and new ideas to a project, and their corporate culture was more comfortable with me sharing those ideas directly with my supervisor rather than in larger department meetings." or whatever to convey (a) old company way is okay, I just didn't fit in, (b) I bring a lot to the table, and (c) the way I didn't fit in is an asset in your corporate culture, they may have a shot.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 29, 2011 15:53:21 GMT -5
I was interviewing late last summer, and was asked why I was looking. I just replied that our dept was being outsourced.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Mar 29, 2011 15:58:40 GMT -5
'Not for misconduct' means you can tell hiring manager that you were fired because of exact reason why you were fired of course. Otherwise you would lie. And we don't want that. Do we? But IF there is a misconduct...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 15:59:04 GMT -5
Archie! What is the reason of firing have to do with OP's question? Do you ever just answer a question? All I can see is that YOU are asking a following questions instead of just not typing ANYTHING!!! So it goes as in Bambi...if you don't have an answer - don't type anything. OK Arch? Thanks for your cooperation. You light my fire, baby.
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 15:59:21 GMT -5
I was interviewing late last summer, and was asked why I was looking. I just replied that our dept was being outsourced. You were fired?
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 16:00:57 GMT -5
'Not for misconduct' means you can tell hiring manager that you were fired because of exact reason why you were fired of course. Otherwise you would lie. And we don't want that. Do we? But IF there is a misconduct... Wouldn't that be badmouthing your employer? Sth which I know lots of pple warned not to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 16:10:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't tell them that your previous boss was out to get you. Maybe that they had difference in ideas about how the job should be handled. the boss decided to go in another direction. Spin it as a positive in how you can help the new employer.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 29, 2011 16:15:27 GMT -5
I would first avoid the word fired. Terminated, let go, downsized or other words sound better. Then explain why in a way that makes it look like they made a mistake but it was their choice, you aren't bitter.
My last employer told me I was being replaced because she didn't think I made enough progress on a project. She told me this when my replacement was starting in the morning so not likely I could talk her out of it.
Current employer asked and I explained it truthfully. She thought I didn't make enough progress but she didn't know I had all my work caught up so I could spend more time on the special project and had every intention of finishing it on time. I also explained this was an extra project, implementing new software and my job was already full time. I was hourly and they didn't authorize overtime and I already worked through lunch and wasn't willing to work overtime without pay.
He contracted two prior coworkers and the lady who terminated me. Next month will be 9 years on this job. Almost everyone has had a job that didn't work out so they know we might not be awful employees for the new company.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Rest in Peace
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Mar 29, 2011 16:20:22 GMT -5
<<Archie! What is the reason of firing have to do with OP's question?>>
It has everything to do with the OP's question. The answer would shape my response. In this case, I would say that I had a personality conflict with the manager. Lies about being laid off can bite you in the butt.
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 16:26:52 GMT -5
Wow, Cronewitch, the lady didn't badmouth you to the prospective employer and still hired you?
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oreo
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Post by oreo on Mar 29, 2011 16:39:37 GMT -5
Was the person able to collect unemployment? If so, I would definitely use the term "laid off" rather than fired and I think that would be accurate. You can't say the manager "had it out for you" or anything like that because you can't bad mouth a previous employer now matter how bad they were. When my job was outsourced several years back, I was told I was "eligible for rehire" which to them meant laid off rather than fired. Did they say anything like that? I guess at that place if you were fired you weren't eligible for rehire. In that case I say my job was outsourced (which it was) and in my industry (software development) that isn't overly surprising!
Legally can the place say they fired you? I thought they could only say you worked there from x date to y date or something.
Did they have to sign anything when they were terminated that might have said something to allow you to lean toward "laid off" versus "fired"? Like a severance package agreement (so they wouldn't sue) or any non-disclosure or non-compete-type of agreement (or maybe you only sign those at the beginning??)
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servant_of_dog
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Post by servant_of_dog on Mar 29, 2011 16:43:49 GMT -5
I'm in a similar situation, in that I fired my job (i.e. walked out). Very liberating, but very unprofessional. I've been careful to avoid saying anything about quitting and to focus on the fact that I am looking for a new challenge. I stress that I was with the previous company for over two years, and while it was great opportunity and experience (half true), I felt it was time to move on. I start my new job tomorrow. Good luck to your friend princessleia; as long as he focuses on the positives, maybe it won't be too much of an obstacle.
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 16:49:45 GMT -5
Was the person able to collect unemployment? If so, I would definitely use the term "laid off" rather than fired and I think that would be accurate. You can't say the manager "had it out for you" or anything like that because you can't bad mouth a previous employer now matter how bad they were. When my job was outsourced several years back, I was told I was "eligible for rehire" which to them meant laid off rather than fired. Did they say anything like that? I guess at that place if you were fired you weren't eligible for rehire. In that case I say my job was outsourced (which it was) and in my industry (software development) that isn't overly surprising! Legally can the place say they fired you? I thought they could only say you worked there from x date to y date or something. Did they have to sign anything when they were terminated that might have said something to allow you to lean toward "laid off" versus "fired"? Like a severance package agreement (so they wouldn't sue) or any non-disclosure or non-compete-type of agreement (or maybe you only sign those at the beginning??) UI hasn't deny him yet - they are still 'investigating'....meanwhile he just files UI every week and wait and see.... yes, legally the place is supposed to give info that this guy has worked from x date to y date and no other details. But you never know if they might just drop innuendos, right?
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 16:53:54 GMT -5
I'm in a similar situation, in that I fired my job (i.e. walked out). Very liberating, but very unprofessional. I've been careful to avoid saying anything about quitting and to focus on the fact that I am looking for a new challenge. I stress that I was with the previous company for over two years, and while it was great opportunity and experience (half true), I felt it was time to move on. I start my new job tomorrow. Good luck to your friend princessleia; as long as he focuses on the positives, maybe it won't be too much of an obstacle. Ya, he shd have walked out....but like I said, he tried to make it work.....and it is just scary to walk away when there's no other job waiting....Not when he has a family to feed and in this economy too!
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Mar 29, 2011 16:54:40 GMT -5
Just reply that you were terminated for "moral turpitude." That's pretty vague, and many people don't really know what it means anyway The best way to spin it up, though, that I've found is to say it was a "mutual termination" - that leaves a little to interpretation, but makes it sound like a business transaction and not so much a negative employment scenario.
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 16:57:05 GMT -5
Just reply that you were terminated for "moral turpitude." That's pretty vague, and many people don't really know what it means anyway The best way to spin it up, though, that I've found is to say it was a "mutual termination" - that leaves a little to interpretation, but makes it sound like a business transaction and not so much a negative employment scenario. Hey, I love that - Mutual Termination ! I will put it to him and see what he says. Thanks. ;D
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so1970
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Post by so1970 on Mar 29, 2011 17:09:30 GMT -5
i thought this was going to be a what would you say to a person when they said your fired. that would be more fun .but on this topic i would think honesty is the best policy, you wouldn't want them finding out later you lied to get the job.
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princessleia
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Post by princessleia on Mar 29, 2011 17:17:50 GMT -5
Yes, he doesn't want to lie. The fact, is how shd you handle the question, 'why did you leave the last job?'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2011 18:14:51 GMT -5
Your friend needs to have someone call HR at the old company and pretend to be someone seeking a reference for him. This will work best if it's someone who actually has a job at a likely-sounding company so that if they get the inevitable voicemail they can leave callback instructions. Ask the usual questions: how long did he work there, when did he leave, what was his title, what was his reason for leaving, is he eligible for re-hire? That way your friend will know exactly what they're telling prospective employers.
He needs to be honest about having been let go- "it wasn't a good fit" is a good answer only if he can come up with some good reasons that won't apply to the job for which he's interviewing.
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oreo
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Post by oreo on Mar 29, 2011 18:30:11 GMT -5
athena has a good idea about seeing what HR will say to a prospective employer. I would also avoid, if possible, giving the previous manager's name. My head hunter called my previous manager (who I did NOT give as a reference) who was a huge gossip and the ex-manager told the head hunter all sorts of things that were completely inappropriate. If this manager "has it out" for your friend, they might do something stupid like that too only tell them really bad information. Your friend could try to sue them at that point but proving stuff like that is difficult and expensive. Easier to just try to avoid it.
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