Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 27, 2018 19:49:30 GMT -5
So I'm just curious how you folks would handle this: I'm at my job 20 yrs; at 25 yrs I get full pension (about 1/2 pay) and health benefits/ prescriptions for life for me and my husband. We do have to contribute for benefits in retirement, but it will cost less as it's based on salary. From what I hear, we won't really need any suppliments to medicare. For what I do, I also get paid well. Here's the problem- I Hate my job, and I mean Hate with a capital H! My immediate boss is abusive, and I feel, rather crazy. Numerous people have reported/ complained about her, and nothing is done. For some reason (political perhaps), she's untouchable. I've seen her abuse her bosses. So the question is, do I stay or do I go? There wouldn't be a huge difference in pension money, as I don't see us getting any big raises in the future. Is it worth it to stay for the lifetime benefits, even though it makes me currently ill? Plus I'm only 58, so I would have to take my husband's crappy benefits until 65, or try to find a job that offers them. What say you YMers?
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 27, 2018 19:53:10 GMT -5
I guess my thought is: how much do you have to work with her directly? Is she constantly abusive to you personally, or does she "spread it around". (BTW, are you now working for one of my former bosses? She sounds eerily familiar...)
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 27, 2018 19:58:19 GMT -5
I guess my thought is: how much do you have to work with her directly? Is she constantly abusive to you personally, or does she "spread it around". (BTW, are you now working for one of my former bosses? She sounds eerily familiar...) I don't have daily contact, but when you're her target, your a target for a month or more. But she sets policies that make your life miserable for the rest of your career.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Feb 27, 2018 20:44:14 GMT -5
Can you work for 5 more years with "I'm just putting in my time" attitude? Basically show up, do your job and just stay away from the politics?
Do either you or your husband have health issues that going on his "crappy benefit" plan be an issue?
How easy is it for you to change jobs in your industry?
Are you emotionally ready to retire? How is your overall money situation? if you are not working, would you want to then spend more money
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Feb 27, 2018 20:49:48 GMT -5
Oh geez, access to partially-paid health insurance is a big deal. How long has it been since you've been a target? How often does it happen?
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chapeau
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Post by chapeau on Feb 27, 2018 21:02:24 GMT -5
Are there dangerous stairs at your workplace? Does she take any daily medications that can be replaced with a baby aspirin or sugar pill? I've been reading lots of murder mysteries lately... Seriously, I have no good suggestions. Can you put a dollar amount on what the $$ cost would be to you if you left? Obviously you can't predict how long you'll need the health benefits for, but at least using average lifespan can you make a guess? Is your sanity worth more or less than that number? Or how many work days is one year? Can you put a dollar amount from the calculation above on each day/week/month? Does that make it more or less palatable? I've worked for/with some very interesting people, and I would regularly set a monthly or weekly "goal" to make it that much farther. I can survive almost anything for 5 days, 4 weeks, etc. Barring that, is there somewhere within the company that you could transfer to? Legitimately, is there a chance that she will be gone in less than 5 years? If she's several years older than you are or is almost at her 25 years, it's possible that she'll be gone and some of your last 5 years might be (more) peaceful. Finally, what are the chances that particular benefit will still be around in 5 years? And that you'll want it? The company my father retired from offered free health benefits to its retirees and their spouses until recently. Dad retires about 15 years ago. At a recent lunch with some fellow retirees, he discovered that he's the only one of that group (a small sample, but they all talk to other people) that still takes the free insurance. Too many hoops to jump through, too many erroneous rejections of policy payments, etc. The others had decided that the hassle wasn't worth it. I know my dad has to fight with them regularly to get reimbursed for his premiums (he pays out of pocket, they reimburse). Sometimes they reject him, sometimes they reject mom, a couple of times they're both rejected. For someone who isn't as stubborn as dad, I can see it being not worth it. He, however, will argue about anything, so I think he enjoys the battles.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 27, 2018 21:05:11 GMT -5
So I'm just curious how you folks would handle this: I'm at my job 20 yrs; at 25 yrs I get full pension (about 1/2 pay) and health benefits/ prescriptions for life for me and my husband. We do have to contribute for benefits in retirement, but it will cost less as it's based on salary. From what I hear, we won't really need any suppliments to medicare. For what I do, I also get paid well. Here's the problem- I Hate my job, and I mean Hate with a capital H! My immediate boss is abusive, and I feel, rather crazy. Numerous people have reported/ complained about her, and nothing is done. For some reason (political perhaps), she's untouchable. I've seen her abuse her bosses. So the question is, do I stay or do I go? There wouldn't be a huge difference in pension money, as I don't see us getting any big raises in the future. Is it worth it to stay for the lifetime benefits, even though it makes me currently ill? Plus I'm only 58, so I would have to take my husband's crappy benefits until 65, or try to find a job that offers them. What say you YMers? The one thing that I can absolutely assure you is that job stress goes down TREMENDOUSLY when you realize that you don't need to be there. What is incumbent on you is to determine whether you really need to be there...or not. If you know that you can walk away and be fine, it gives you much greater ability to stay. At that point she can do nothing to you. Staying the five years secure in the knowledge that you can leave any time seems like a pretty good option.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 27, 2018 21:31:57 GMT -5
Oh geez, access to partially-paid health insurance is a big deal. How long has it been since you've been a target? How often does it happen? This. Is there any chance you could move departments or something? I'd definitely hang on for the benefits part if at all possible.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 5:05:40 GMT -5
Can you work for 5 more years with "I'm just putting in my time" attitude? Basically show up, do your job and just stay away from the politics? Do either you or your husband have health issues that going on his "crappy benefit" plan be an issue? How easy is it for you to change jobs in your industry? Are you emotionally ready to retire? How is your overall money situation? if you are not working, would you want to then spend more money I'm trying my best! I never seek her out. I really think she's a psychopath, and should be avoided. No major health issues right now. I could probably find a job, but it would be for about half my salary. And the thought of starting a new job at this point kills me. I'm a department head, and she's in charge of the heads. Even if I transferred into a different department, she'd be boss. Also keep in mind, she didn't get this spot by merit; when a new 'chief' came in from the private sector, he brought along his secretray- her.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 5:08:58 GMT -5
Oh geez, access to partially-paid health insurance is a big deal. How long has it been since you've been a target? How often does it happen? This current target session started about a week ago. It happens a few times a year. This time will last longer. We have new top administration, and I reported her recent abuse. Nothing was accomplished, because the top guy spoke to her boss to address it, but her boss is like her dog.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 5:13:46 GMT -5
Are there dangerous stairs at your workplace? Does she take any daily medications that can be replaced with a baby aspirin or sugar pill? I've been reading lots of murder mysteries lately... Seriously, I have no good suggestions. Can you put a dollar amount on what the $$ cost would be to you if you left? Obviously you can't predict how long you'll need the health benefits for, but at least using average lifespan can you make a guess? Is your sanity worth more or less than that number? Or how many work days is one year? Can you put a dollar amount from the calculation above on each day/week/month? Does that make it more or less palatable? I've worked for/with some very interesting people, and I would regularly set a monthly or weekly "goal" to make it that much farther. I can survive almost anything for 5 days, 4 weeks, etc. Barring that, is there somewhere within the company that you could transfer to? Legitimately, is there a chance that she will be gone in less than 5 years? If she's several years older than you are or is almost at her 25 years, it's possible that she'll be gone and some of your last 5 years might be (more) peaceful. Finally, what are the chances that particular benefit will still be around in 5 years? And that you'll want it? The company my father retired from offered free health benefits to its retirees and their spouses until recently. Dad retires about 15 years ago. At a recent lunch with some fellow retirees, he discovered that he's the only one of that group (a small sample, but they all talk to other people) that still takes the free insurance. Too many hoops to jump through, too many erroneous rejections of policy payments, etc. The others had decided that the hassle wasn't worth it. I know my dad has to fight with them regularly to get reimbursed for his premiums (he pays out of pocket, they reimburse). Sometimes they reject him, sometimes they reject mom, a couple of times they're both rejected. For someone who isn't as stubborn as dad, I can see it being not worth it. He, however, will argue about anything, so I think he enjoys the battles. Love the stairs idea! Haha. And this is what I tell myself everyday. It would be insane for me to walk away at this point. Plus I've been maxing my 457, and contributing for the next 5 yrs makes a difference! And I do worry that benefits will disappear before I retire. We used to get free benefits while working and in retirement, but that left. We also lost COLA.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 5:15:04 GMT -5
Oh geez, access to partially-paid health insurance is a big deal. How long has it been since you've been a target? How often does it happen? This. Is there any chance you could move departments or something? I'd definitely hang on for the benefits part if at all possible. Even if I moved departments, she'd still be my boss. I'm trying so hard to hang on!
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 5:17:40 GMT -5
So I'm just curious how you folks would handle this: I'm at my job 20 yrs; at 25 yrs I get full pension (about 1/2 pay) and health benefits/ prescriptions for life for me and my husband. We do have to contribute for benefits in retirement, but it will cost less as it's based on salary. From what I hear, we won't really need any suppliments to medicare. For what I do, I also get paid well. Here's the problem- I Hate my job, and I mean Hate with a capital H! My immediate boss is abusive, and I feel, rather crazy. Numerous people have reported/ complained about her, and nothing is done. For some reason (political perhaps), she's untouchable. I've seen her abuse her bosses. So the question is, do I stay or do I go? There wouldn't be a huge difference in pension money, as I don't see us getting any big raises in the future. Is it worth it to stay for the lifetime benefits, even though it makes me currently ill? Plus I'm only 58, so I would have to take my husband's crappy benefits until 65, or try to find a job that offers them. What say you YMers? The one thing that I can absolutely assure you is that job stress goes down TREMENDOUSLY when you realize that you don't need to be there. What is incumbent on you is to determine whether you really need to be there...or not. If you know that you can walk away and be fine, it gives you much greater ability to stay. At that point she can do nothing to you. Staying the five years secure in the knowledge that you can leave any time seems like a pretty good option. I think I'll feel that way once I hit my 25 yrs. I have friends from work who told me it was a whole different ballgame once they had the 25 yrs in.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 28, 2018 6:51:24 GMT -5
20 years down and only 5 to go for free benefits and a full pension? Plus, 5 years to collect a nice salary and max your savings and investments. You get to walk away at 63 and never have to work again. That last 18 months you will be walking on sunshine.
My parents started planning their retirement 5 years out. I've never seen two happier retirees. They built their perfect home in Florida and it was ready for them the year they retired at 55.
I'd play nice with this woman and start the count down. Break up the year with nice vacations to destress and your retirement plans. Good luck!
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Feb 28, 2018 7:02:29 GMT -5
The one thing that I can absolutely assure you is that job stress goes down TREMENDOUSLY when you realize that you don't need to be there. What is incumbent on you is to determine whether you really need to be there...or not. If you know that you can walk away and be fine, it gives you much greater ability to stay. At that point she can do nothing to you. Staying the five years secure in the knowledge that you can leave any time seems like a pretty good option. I think I'll feel that way once I hit my 25 yrs. I have friends from work who told me it was a whole different ballgame once they had the 25 yrs in. But that is my point. They say it changed when they got their 25 years in. It is very likely that was the point that they realized they could walk away, and that is when the job stress decreased. The 25 years was what they were working towards, and when they reached it the goal was accomplished. Is your goal to get to 25 years? Then fine, stay and work towards that, but realize that the stress will remain until you make it go away. If you can train your mind enough to ignore and overcome it, great. The battle is half-won. If you run your numbers and realize that you can leave now and still be fine, that is also great. That doesn't mean that you have to leave. It means you can if it gets unbearable to stay. That knowledge alone will allow you to overcome any job stress that presents itself and make it easier to stay. And if you really want to know the truth on a deeper level, the job does not "create" the stress. You and your reactions do. Train your mind to not do that and you'll be fine. That is a bit harder to do.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Feb 28, 2018 7:10:59 GMT -5
Sometimes I think they do that so you won't stay and get all the benies. I know it seems like a long time. Find ways to distress and leave it at the office. I'm one to talk, was in a similar situation then the decision was made for me. This was back in the 80's or so when business pretty much crashed, I hated my boss, vice versa and was one of the first among many let go. Once gone the stress I had been under was even worse then I realized. Do what you have to do, but understand jobs with benefits like you are looking forward to are worth a lot now as we are watching our insurance going up and up already and are only in year 3 of retirement.
Good Luck
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Feb 28, 2018 7:15:51 GMT -5
I know you said if you went to another department you would still be under her, but is there anywhere in your pension system that is away from her? Or any way to move to a telecommuting role or some other role or a way to get offsite to allow some distance from her? Maybe start travelling to the locations you supervise and do gemba walks to move toward lean processes?
I am three years out from full retirement, and two years ago we went through a really bad patch, where a bad boss resulted in 200% turnover to my unit. Being able to hunker down at home telecommuting made a huge different for me, as I was able to avoid a lot of the nastiness that the rest of my unit had to tolerate. It took over a year for him to be fired, and we are still trying to end the turnover cycle that he got started.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 8:58:53 GMT -5
One note of caution: unless you're protected by a union contract, companies can and will change health care provisions for retirees. One of my past employers simply froze their contributions at what they were paying in a particular year- let's say it was 2012- so every year from then on they just gave you that amount towards health insurance even though the actual cost of coverage kept going up.
My brother and SIL were less fortunate. Brother retired from a large company (a Berkshire subsidiary) at age 59. For two years they kept their promises to keep retirees on the company health insurance. As of 1/1/18 it's gone. Period. Not even a subsidy towards getting coverage elsewhere. Last I heard, the "best" they could do was coverage with a high deductible that would cost them $22K/year. No subsidies- apparently income from their savings and from his pension make them ineligible. They'll be OK- their house is paid for and they don't have any expensive hobbies- but when I saw them over Christmas they were in shock. SIL is a year older so she'll be eligible for Medicare in 2 years but it still sucks.
So- keep this in mind before you let this job destroy you in the hopes of a promise that can be broken.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Feb 28, 2018 9:14:34 GMT -5
We have mandatory harassment training every year that is conducted by an extraordinarily rich and successful lawyer. He both sues and defends organizations that have been accused of harassment. The focus is the 'usual suspects' of sexual and racial harassment or discrimination. A couple of years ago I asked about situations where the aggressor wasn't picking on someone's race or gender but was simply a bully. He replied that although we focus on race and sex the majority of money paid out by corporations was to settle simple bullying lawsuits. Perhaps you should make sure that HR knows they can be sued for not preventing this behavior.
Just want to make clear I'm not a lawyer and I'm just repeating what I was told!
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Feb 28, 2018 9:24:55 GMT -5
The boss I'd referred to earlier was at a previous company that had a knack for laying off people just before they hit their 10-year mark (they were fully vested in the profit-sharing program at 10 years). They even used to go to court to fight unemployment benefits, but they lost every round there that I can recall. Some places don't deserve to even be in business. To this day I wonder what she had on the bosses that she never got fired (the rumor was she'd slept with one of the bigwigs, but who knows?) The point is, if it were me, I might try to stick it out, but pay attention to what is happening to your coworkers. Was anyone else forced out just before they hit that 25 year mark, or did they focus their venom on any employee getting close? If you're at the point that you're taking medication, or drinking to cope, it might be time to leave. Nothing is worth that.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 28, 2018 9:26:44 GMT -5
One note of caution: unless you're protected by a union contract, companies can and will change health care provisions for retirees. One of my past employers simply froze their contributions at what they were paying in a particular year- let's say it was 2012- so every year from then on they just gave you that amount towards health insurance even though the actual cost of coverage kept going up. My brother and SIL were less fortunate. Brother retired from a large company (a Berkshire subsidiary) at age 59. For two years they kept their promises to keep retirees on the company health insurance. As of 1/1/18 it's gone. Period. Not even a subsidy towards getting coverage elsewhere. Last I heard, the "best" they could do was coverage with a high deductible that would cost them $22K/year. No subsidies- apparently income from their savings and from his pension make them ineligible. They'll be OK- their house is paid for and they don't have any expensive hobbies- but when I saw them over Christmas they were in shock. SIL is a year older so she'll be eligible for Medicare in 2 years but it still sucks. So- keep this in mind before you let this job destroy you in the hopes of a promise that can be broken. All good points, but there is also no guarantee that a new employer won't have a dysfunctional workplace with jerks for half the salary. How many people here have posted their workplace issues. Might as well collect the good salary and find coping mechanisms.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 28, 2018 10:06:25 GMT -5
It seems that you work for a governmental organization - you refer to the private sector as where your boss came from. So most likely your retiree benefits would continue into your retirement.
So given that the retiree benefits are valuable and most likely will continue, how can you handle five more years? I've had bosses that were impossible, but didn't have a specific time-limited goal like you do. You're running your own race with that one. As tallguy said, you need to hold onto your own goals and limit impact from your boss. EAP programs include counseling for working with difficult people. Maybe you could pick up some strategies from there.
Also, find techniques from any source to manage this stressor and minimize its impact on you. Do you like your job except for your boss? If so, concentrate on those duties and people.
Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 10:18:28 GMT -5
Are there any department heads or any employee you notice that escape her wrath or who she appears friendly with? I would investigate why, there is always a way to get on someone’s good side.
The question is are you willing to do what it takes to get on hers. It may be well worth it for a better work environment while on the path to the sweet benny package.
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janee
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Post by janee on Feb 28, 2018 10:40:37 GMT -5
I would work on the coping mechanisms first and then re-evaluate. No way would I let someone like her "win" and force me out of a good thing. If you left, I fear you'd be kicking yourself in a few short years about what you gave up.
I would investigate the hostile workplace environment stuff. Report her again and see if others will also to back you up. I wouldn't necessarily do it, unless forced to, but I would try to have a plan in place to get her out or in a reduced capacity.
Keep us posted on what you decide, especially if you try the coping mechanisms. I'm sorry you're going through this.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 28, 2018 11:13:36 GMT -5
My dad is a retiree from a major tire manufacturer. He was a white collar worker, so no union. He no longer gets free health insurance. When they took that away, they went to a Health Reimbursement Account in an amount which didn't come close to what was spent on health insurance. The reimbursement amount was 50% of the retiree's amount for the spouse. The amount has been cut every year since the plan started.
The no cost health insurance was not taken away from union retirees.
All the best.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 28, 2018 13:08:53 GMT -5
So, you'd be 63 (5 years out).... how does the benefits/perscriptions benefit for life work with Medicare and whatever other healthcare that's available to you at -- is it 65? Having a wacko boss is sometimes more about being able to "manage" that boss than the fact that they are wacko. Cause, generally, truly wacko bosses get themselves shunned or fired or something by various levels of management. If management is tolerating the "wacko" then there must be a valid reason for them to do so. If it was me, I'd take into consideration how well I was able to use the "dark side" of manipulation to help manage the wacko manager. I'd also have to consider how much doing that effected my "Moral Compass" and my personal integrity. I'm the "boss of me" so a wacko boss usually doesn't bother me... their wacko-ness doesn't make me do knee jerk things or become vindictive or become a doormat. I use the basic tools for "dealing with difficult" people and usually manage to avoid bad stuff.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 28, 2018 13:59:54 GMT -5
I would be inclined to just deal as best I could and ride this out - for one thing, you assume nothing has been done to her and nothing will, but that might be a mistake.
I had a boss from hell a few years back - screaming, bullying, firing people on whims, and obviously sexist and racist. Lots of people complained and nothing much happened. He had to go to some off site training that seemed to have no effect. I started looking for another job, but then suddenly, he was demoted from facility manager to an 'advisory' role. Eventually he was terminated. Turns out, he got the accounting manager to 'cook the books' for him to make it appear that our facility was hitting certain revenue goals that we weren't actually meeting. Corporate caught on to it and he was out. Apparently being an ass to your employees doesn't matter, but fudging numbers to get your bonus does.
And my DH was in a similar unhappy situation with a bossy, micromanaging boss who set bizarre rules - no standing and talking in the hallway, no more than 1 coworker in your office at a time, you aren't allowed to talk to coworkers about anything but work, Victorian dress code, etc. Since this was a government office and this bozo seemed to be the pet favorite of Admin, DH didn't think he would ever go away, but the boss from hell got arrested at the Walmart when one of his girlfriends physically attacked him and he struck her back. (The GF was also a co-worker, so not only did he get busted for assault a woman, he was also having an affair with his subordinate.) The guy (and the co-worker, who was also a horrible piece of work) both disappeared practically overnight, terminated.
My point is - you may think no one is paying attention to this woman and the BF who is protecting her, but possibly she's walking a thin line prior to being canned. I would try hard to stay out of her way but document the things she does that interfere with your ability to work, and forward those to HR. Maybe she will run up against the wrong person, maybe she will get caught with her hand in the cookie jar, maybe HR will just get tired of all the complaints against her, and your problem might get solved for you.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 16:59:05 GMT -5
We have mandatory harassment training every year that is conducted by an extraordinarily rich and successful lawyer. He both sues and defends organizations that have been accused of harassment. The focus is the 'usual suspects' of sexual and racial harassment or discrimination. A couple of years ago I asked about situations where the aggressor wasn't picking on someone's race or gender but was simply a bully. He replied that although we focus on race and sex the majority of money paid out by corporations was to settle simple bullying lawsuits. Perhaps you should make sure that HR knows they can be sued for not preventing this behavior. Just want to make clear I'm not a lawyer and I'm just repeating what I was told! We have the same training, also by an employment lawyer. Our HR lady is also abused by her. I made a comment yesterday to one of the big bosses, to keep in mind I'm not her only victim. People talk. I never make trouble at work, and keep my mouth shut, so I think they felt a little 'safe' with my complaint.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Feb 28, 2018 16:59:31 GMT -5
Hubs was with his company for years and we were looking forward to the retiree health benefit on retirement, the year he became eligible they changed the premiums to over $1000 a month, that was like 20 years ago, so we lost it all.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 28, 2018 17:03:38 GMT -5
You guys are great. I am staying and trying to cope/avoid. I keep telling myself she'll eventually wind up hanging herself, but so far it hasn't happened. I really thought there would be more responses saying no job is worth it. But I really do need my job.
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