This is scary... and we need gun laws against this...

[Deleted]

Law enforcement struggling to combat unregulated, DIY "ghost guns"
^{February 13, 2018, 6:47 PM}

LOS ANGELES -- A handgun that looks and fires just like a Glock 9mm has no serial number, is completely untraceable and 100 percent legal. It's known as a "ghost gun," and we bought one online with no background check or waiting period.

It's not technically a firearm, because the part that would be registered -- the lower receiver -- still needs work. But a do-it-yourself kit came with all the necessary parts, even the drill bits and a plastic template showing exactly where to drill the holes.

"It's not going to take a tremendous amount of gunsmithing skills," said Scott Reitz, a retired Los Angeles Police Department SWAT officer.

Reitz agreed to supervise while we built the gun. Following an instructional YouTube video, it took less than three hours to build. After a safety check and test-firing, Reitz put the gun through its paces.

Countless websites offer so-called ghost gun kits for everything from handguns to AR-15s and AK-47s.

"They're trying to appeal to a certain segment of the population," said Dave Hamilton, senior special agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). "Felons who can't go to a gun store and legally purchase a firearm, or people who just don't want the government knowing what type of firearms they have."

Hamilton showed us several different ghost guns. Many had come off the streets. They recently confiscated 46 in a raid at a single home.



More here: www.cbsnews.com/news/law-enforcement-struggling-to-combat-unregulated-diy-ghost-guns/

[Deleted]

I'm a staunch supporter of Second Amendment rights and have said that we have enough laws in place... but this is one of those "loopholes" that needs to be closed. Background checks should be required for ALL firearms purchases... even in kit form.

[Deleted]

I can't believe this didn't spark any discussion at all... wow.

[Deleted]

I don’t think there is much discussion because I think almost everyone agrees.

That is damned scary.

[Virgil Showlion]

This isn't the half of it.

At the rate 3D printing and custom machining are coming down in cost, it won't be long before a $10,000 machine, some raw materials, and a blueprint downloaded over the Internet will enable Joe Q. Public to construct any firearm ever designed--and possibly some of his own design.

$10,000 seems like a lot, but it only takes one machine to print 50,000 unregistered firearms.

[thyme4change]

Feb 19, 2018 8:34:21 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

This isn't the half of it.

At the rate 3D printing and custom machining are coming down in cost, it won't be long before a $10,000 machine, some raw materials, and a blueprint downloaded over the Internet will enable Joe Q. Public to construct any firearm ever designed--and possibly some of his own design.

$10,000 seems like a lot, but it only takes one machine to print 50,000 unregistered firearms.

That 10k machine could be a thousand bucks in my lifetime. And my spring has passed.

[Spellbound454]

 Is there 10K 3D printer?...... Something that prints a gun is going to be industrial grade....more like 500K

and how long would it take?......my guess is days.

Also something that is layered is not going to be as robust as something that has been machined.
It may fire a finite number of times and then blow your arm off.

I think its a curio ... nowhere near mass produced guns.

[retread]

Feb 19, 2018 10:18:09 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 Is there 10K 3D printer?

There are 3D printers for less than $300.  $10K buys one heck of a fine machine these days.

[Virgil Showlion]

Feb 19, 2018 10:18:09 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 Is there 10K 3D printer?...... Something that prints a gun is going to be industrial grade....more like 500K

and how long would it take?......my guess is days.

Also something that is layered is not going to be as robust as something that has been machined.
It may fire a finite number of times and then blow your arm off.

I think its a curio ... nowhere near mass produced guns.

I can tell you that as of three years ago, the university my mother works purchased an industrial-grade 3D printer for metalworking for about $50K. It could produce all the parts for a particular battery (at least as sophisticated as modern pistol) in about 30 minutes, which included the time needed for the human operator to do his part.

I can also tell you that costs for 3D printers have dropped since then. I've seen 3D printers for woodworking and ceramics retailing at $1000 CDN.

But let's suppose a $50K price tag on the machine needed to produce a decent gun. What does a single gun cost? Let's say $330, minus $30 in material costs and energy, meaning $300 profit per unit sold. Hence a black market dealer needs only sell 166 units to recoup his investment.

With those numbers, it wouldn't be something many "lone wolves" would attempt, but gangs, co-ops, organized crime could make a killing (no pun intended).

I just don't see this particular genie going back into the bottle.

[sesfw]

Unfortunately Virgil ....... I have to agree with you.

I've watched the 3-D printer at work and have been fascinated.  I know that one cost less than $1K, and one of the engineers bought a small one for home for less that $300.

I figure it would take less than a week, 24/7, to make something like this.  Even if it shot just a couple of rounds before melting down, that is enough to cause some serious damage.

So sad ....... and angry .........

[Deleted]

3D printing of guns is also a good reason why "more gun control laws" in the vein of "no more of X-Type guns" can't/won't work. If the bad guys can't buy them legally, they'll just print them themselves or buy them from some black market gun printer.

No. The focus needs to come off of "don't allow sales of certain types of guns" nor even "don't allow sales to certain types of people"... it needs to be more focused on fixing WHY people want to kill (That's always been what was needed to be focused on, but the anti-gun nutters didn't really want to solve the problem, they just wanted to remove one of our constitutional rights... so they could say "hey we did something" even if that "something" was utterly pointless... because bad guys don't care about the law).

[OldCoyote]

Why are we worried about this when there are millions of gun out there in private hand and on the so called black market that are easy to come by?

[sesfw]

An article in yesterdays paper said the police arrested a 16 yr old for bringing a loaded small pistol to high school.  He said he didn't have a problem with anyone, just wanted to have personal protection.

This is the mind set we have to deal with.  All this idiot kid would have to 'feel' is disrespect from someone and pull the gun.

Why did this kid have access to this gun, and what made his pea brain think it was a good idea to bring it to school?

A couple of weeks ago my 79 yr old husband was hurrying to the mens' room at Costco and was talking to himself about being in a hurry.  A young man of a different ethnic group felt disrespect from my husband and started chewing him out.  Poor hubby almost had an accident and just wanted to get away from the other guy.

Feeling disrespect seems to be the 'in' thing now ................ get over it people.  You won't have so many ulcers.