career change advice - teaching

[Rob Base 2.0]

I've been thinking more and more about making a career change. I've been interested in teaching for a while. When I was in the Army I liked training / mentoring younger soldiers. My last job before I "retired" from the Army was teaching in a military school. I really liked it (the teaching part, some of the admin stuff not so much).  I work for the government now as a GS employee.

I realize that teaching kids will be different. Especially in the increasingly politically correct world.

I also wonder if this late in the game (I am 47 now) if it makes sense to do this (salary wise, benefit wise (not sure how teacher pensions work, if I have enough time to make it worth while, etc...if that makes sense?......I really don't plan to work past 55 unless the stock market totally crashes or something)

I signed up for the Troops to Teachers Program before I "retired".  I am pretty sure my ID number for that is still valid; but I am double checking

For now, I am thinking about as a "hobby" to start taking community college classes at night (like 2 nights a week) that I would need or want to take (at a minimum I want to brush up on Math (that's the subject I would want to teach)).  I have a MBA and eMPA.  The community college also has an Associates program that gives and Associates in Arts for secondary education for Mathematics.  But I would want to check with the Troops to Teachers POC to see what options I have towards teaching certification.

Also, I contacted the Troops to Teachers program via email to see if they have a representative in my area (Maryland) that I could speak to in person.

Regardless, I don't think I would be able to be certified / transition quickly; so for now thinking, even best case scenario I would have to take a few college classes for a year or 2, I am thinking.  So maybe take a few classes and have some more time to think about it.  If I don't pull the trigger no real harm done, just out some money for community college classes.

Any overall thoughts or input on this?  (especially those with teaching experience)

Thanks

[billisonboard]

Substitute teaching is a great way to test the waters of the Maryland state educational system and see if teaching is the right profession for you. The Maryland State Department of Education does not require a license or permit for substitute teachers. Each school system in Maryland has its own substitute teacher requirements.

www.teaching-certification.com/teaching/maryland-substitute-license.html

[phil5185]

I realize that teaching kids will be different. Especially in the increasingly politically correct world.

start taking community college classes at night (like 2 nights a week) that I would need or want to take (at a minimum I want to brush up on Math (that's the subject I would want to teach)).

Have you considered teaching at the community college?
It is the opposite from teaching K12 kids - the K12 kids are often not interested in being there, they amuse themselves with misbehaving, causing disruptions - then their parents come in and try to intercede. Conversely, the Comm College students are paying to be there, they want to gain an education & earn their degree. And, if a trouble-maker shows up, you simply fail him, it is his problem, not yours. For those reasons, the instructor requirements are lower for Comm College, not so much Edu, less PC,

The Comm College math is mostly advanced algebra, trig, geometry, precalc, statistics. (The advanced calc, differential equations, etc, is usually taught at the Junior level & above)

[dannylion]

Another vote for trying substitute teaching in the Maryland system first to test the waters.

 

With a few exceptions, probably anywhere in Howard County would be okay. In other areas, it would probably depend on the individual school.   

[haapai]

I've heard a lot of bad things about teaching.  In fact, now that I think about it, I don't recall ever hearing complaints about the pay.  Given how notoriously ill-paid teachers are, that should tell you something. 

[giramomma]

Feb 2, 2018 19:18:35 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

I realize that teaching kids will be different. Especially in the increasingly politically correct world.

start taking community college classes at night (like 2 nights a week) that I would need or want to take (at a minimum I want to brush up on Math (that's the subject I would want to teach)).

Have you considered teaching at the community college?
It is the opposite from teaching K12 kids - the K12 kids are often not interested in being there, they amuse themselves with misbehaving, causing disruptions - then their parents come in and try to intercede. Conversely, the Comm College students are paying to be there, they want to gain an education & earn their degree. And, if a trouble-maker shows up, you simply fail him, it is his problem, not yours. For those reasons, the instructor requirements are lower for Comm College, not so much Edu, less PC,

The Comm College math is mostly advanced algebra, trig, geometry, precalc, statistics. (The advanced calc, differential equations, etc, is usually taught at the Junior level & above)

Oh good grief.

What kool-aid have you been drinking that college kids are so angelic..and don't have parents interfere....

I would also look at basic math...too..you know...remedial stuff. About 25% of kids in 4 year degree programs have to take some sort of remedial math and English these days.  I'm sure it's no difference for a 2 year college..

And not only is the instructor requirement low, but the pay is really low too. And sometimes benefits aren't freely flowing.

[giramomma]

What about teaching in a private school?

My kids go to parochial school. All the teachers at my kids' school ARE state certified teachers..but there are some private schools that don't have that requirement. DS has a math teacher that retired from his first career about your age and taught for a few years...and now he's fully retiring at the end of the school year.

Could you work your gov't job..and just reduce hours, and say be a tutor? Or for now, what about working a compressed schedule and getting into the public schools to volunteer one day a week? Or community centers where you can find homework clubs.

Unless you are dying to get out of your gov't job...you don't necessarily have to become a full-fledged teacher to make a difference in a kid's life. I've done it with half-hour face to face time once a week with my kiddos...

[Deleted]

Feb 2, 2018 19:40:27 GMT -5 haapai said:

I've heard a lot of bad things about teaching.  In fact, now that I think about it, I don't recall ever hearing complaints about the pay.  Given how notoriously ill-paid teachers are, that should tell you something. 

haapai, your post is very confusing. 

I don't know about Maryland, but teaching at the community college level in Alabama is a lot more complicated than phil5185 implies.  Here you must have 18 hours past a BS or BA in the subject matter.  I teach at a large, relatively affluent high school, and 3 out of 40 teachers qualify to teach English at the CC level.  That's because they usually get bachelor's degree in content and then an education degree at the master's level for certification.  It's called the fifth year program.  I don't think Troops to Teachers works with CC but you can check.  

I second doing some substitute teaching before investing time or money.  Education has a 50% burn-out rate at the 5-year mark.  It is honestly hard work.  You may have students of varying abilities, from special education to the gifted all in the same classroom.  The special education students will have Individualized Education Programs (IEPS) that must be followed; it is the law.  Students with Tourette's Syndrome may utter a stream of expletives; they can't help it.  You may have to change a student's catheter, etc.  Students may have behavior plans.  A special education student cannot be sent to Alternative School if his behavior is a manifestation of his disability (think the Tourette's but also the Oppositional Defiance Disorder kids).  

I am purposely showing you the darker side of the classroom so that you understand that it is absolutely nothing like training recruits, etc.  It's not all of the above in a single classroom, but those are issues that you can expect.  Overall, it's actually a good profession if you like helping kids learn, but you have to be willing to help all kids learn, regardless of their ability or behavior.  It takes a lot of preparation and grading, most of which takes place out of the classroom.  I've been teaching since 1974, and I still have to prep for every single day because the kids are different every year.  I can reuse activities year-to-year, but not the actual lesson plan.  It has to change according to what the students need to know.

The money is ok.  The younger teachers struggle with student loans and car payments, but you are past that, I'm sure.  You'd probably be able to qualify for a pension (in Alabama), but it takes 10 years to vest.  It is 1.5% for each year X the average of your last 10 years.  This is what is known as Tier 2.  It isn't free.  You pay 6% of your salary toward it.

Good luck!  We need good teachers, but you need to know what you are signing up for. 

[TheOtherMe]

Thanks for explaining this @bamafan1954

I knew the posts above yours didn't sound like what my nephew, in year #2 of his teaching career, says.  While he loves his job, his pay is very low.  He also works at Dairy Queen so he works 7 days a week to make ends meet.  In the summer, his school hires him 20 hours per week and he also officiates soccer and works at Dairy Queen.

He teaches in a residential school for students with behavioral problems.  I've only heard a few of his stories I'm sure and some are very disturbing.

[dannylion]

I can't find the article right now, but I recall reading that CC teaching positions in Maryland are largely adjunct positions, that is, low pay and no benefits.  This was some time ago, so it might be different now. Anyway, something to take into consideration.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Thanks all for the info

I expect it to be a hard job. It was hard for me teaching in the Army. Lots of hours and it wasn't training "recruits" per se. I taught soldiers and government civilians (from GS4 to GS12). I would get people that didn't know how to round numbers to the nearest 10, people that were not at all computer literate (struggle to copy a file from the computer to a CD, did not have rudimentary excel knowledge (and these were budget people)), and other challenges.

 My first 2 classes (I taught a 2 week course) I had some difficult students (disruptive & negative), but I muddled through. I know it will be different with kids but I think one of my strengths (once I have time to prep) is to make a dry subject become interesting (or somewhat interesting).  I taught the most boring course in the Army school (budgeting) but I was able to make it interesting (just the way they threw me in there, it took me 2 classes to get decent at it).

I do find it fulfilling to "help" people.  And to help people learn things.  Watching the lights go on and helping to make things "click" for the students was really motivating.  Not sure about changing catheters though......

I figure I will wait and see what the Troops to Teachers POC says. Also I will ask about possibility of substituting.

[haapai]

What I meant is that there are so many other things to complain about, bitterly, that the notoriously low pay doesn't even merit a mention. 

Most of the complaints are about the politics, the paperwork, the problem kids, and the parents.  It's not a job that provides a whole lot of autonomy and teachers are constantly second-guessed. 

The burn-out rate is indeed stupendous.  I have to wonder if that 50% figure includes people that complete their student teaching requirement and never teach again after that.  There are two women in my family that did that.  (I'm not one of them.)

Another thing to be aware of is that in some states and in some school districts, the pressure to get a graduate degree can be pretty strong.  It can be either a formal part of the state teacher certification requirements or it can embedded in the pay scale, but it can exist and the costs of obtaining that piece of paper must be evaluated. 

[debthaven]

I was a print journalist for 24 years before I started teaching as a second career. First I taught middle school and primary school ... not for me. I lasted four months in both positions.

Finally I was hired as an adjunct, teaching university students in a business school. That is definitely the right age group for me. This is my 8th year, and I love it. I now teach in two different business schools (3 days a week at one, 1 day a week at the other). I plan to retire from these jobs. I'm 58, so I was 50 when I started working as an adjunct. I teach first-year, second-year and Masters students. I love the variety.

I would strongly suggest trying both substituting AND teaching at the CC level. You can see which age group you prefer, and what your career options are at both.

Good luck!

[Shooby]

There are plenty of opportunities to teach especially if you want to do to i more as a part time job or volunteer or hobby.  If you go into teaching at this stage, you may find yourself at the bottom of the pay scale if you go into a public school, etc.  Depends where you live, but we have hired teachers who have other degrees and experience but based on their teaching experience we have to hire them at their level of teaching experience which my be step 1 and isn't a very good salary if you are middle age.  So, truthfully, i think that you will probably be taking a huge step back.  And for teacher pensions, you have to really be in the system for 30 yrs.  And, in some districts there are hundreds of applicants for one job.  Maybe there are teacher shortages in some areas but we have a ton of applicants.  And, I am on the School Board here so I am involved in the hirings and selection of teacher hires.

   But, everything in life doesn't have to be all or nothing.  You can be involved in other ways.  You could teach classes on pretty much anything at a local community center.  It might not be for pay but that might satisify your desire to teach.  I mean, you can do whatever you want but i would be careful about blowing up my current career as you might find it far less satisfying if you are making much lower wages.

[Ava]

Rob;

If I remember correctly from your previous posts your are really bored with your job and want out.
I would stick with it for the pension and the benefits. Consider it a sacrifice worth making.
On the other hand, teaching as a volunteer or a side-job may be what you like doing and keep you motivated to go through your day having something else to look forward to.

Trying to start a new career in your forties is very difficult and frustrating. And even if you succeed, it would cost you a lot in the form of lower income.

[alabamagal]

Teacher pay for teachers starting out is not that low. Depends on the district, you can usually get information online. My DDIL makes a good bit over $50k in DC suburbs (VA). She does have a masters which adds a little bit. Pay is the same starting out as DS who is an actuary. The difference is that teaching salarys do not increase that much year to year, so a teacher with 20 years experience makes much less than a lot of people in private sector.

The issue with starting teaching mid life is that you usually start at the bottom of the pay scale. So look up what the pay scale is in your local school system.

Substitute teaching is a good test to see what it is like in classroom, but you probably won't get the full picture of the politics. My DDIL, in her second year, loves the kids, but struggles with politics, especially with other teachers.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Couple things: in our state, since you have the undergrad degree, you can substitute without having the teacher licensing. Your MBA wouldn't actually "count" toward the teacher licensing. If you go for the teacher license, you'd have to do a year's worth of college. In our state, there's such a teacher shortage, that you could be hired and the district would pay for your licensing program. 
Here, a person with a teaching license and BS starts at about $40K/year. 
Here, it takes five years to be vested in the state pension. 


Teaching, if done well,  is exhausting. If not done well, it's a cake job. A guy across the hall from me treats it as a cake job and works 35 - 40 hours per week. For teaching, I work about 60 hours a week. For administration, I worked about 75 hours per week. I never can get it all done. 

[nittanycheme]

Have you thought about maybe tutoring?  There is a Literary Council in the city I live near (smallish city) where you teach adults to read, and there are also programs to teach classes to help people get a GED.  The literacy council is a non-profit and a lot of the teachers/tutors are volunteer.   I think most of the GED prep programs are as well And you really would be making a difference in someone's life who is motivated to learn.  As far I as I can tell from the information I get/read about them (I do donate to the Literacy council), almost all of the adult learners are there voluntarily.  I don't want to say "all" just because there may be some there because their work sent them, or something.  I think this is an organization in a lot of cities/towns.  You could use this to help occupy your mind at your current job if you decide not to go to the full teaching route.    They may have more of what you like - I think a lot of those programs are fairly structured for the teachers/tutors, and have a lot more 1:1 time with the students.  So less admin work, and more helping people who want to learn.

[formerroomate99]

Since the colleges produce 10-100 times as many math PhD's as academic positions, you might face some stiff competition for a teaching gig at the community college.  You never know though.  

[mamasita99]

Since you want to retire around 55, I don't think it would be worth the hassle to take additional classes, etc. to be qualified to teach in a public school. 

I would look for other teaching opportunities out there. Possibly residential/outpatient centers for kids with behavioral or emotional disorders? I say that because those places are always looking for male role models and you may be able to teach certain classes that don't necessarily go towards "diploma requirements".  I think that you probably do have a ton of experience that those kids could certainly benefit from. Training young recruits is not much different from raising teenagers in some cases!

[Shooby]

What things would you like to teach?  You could be a math tutor and do some teaching that way.  You don't need any particular degree for that, if you are skilled in mathmatics and just start by helping out some local kids, word of mouth would build you a following.   We have a local arts/community center and I think anyone can go down and offer to teach some classes on pretty much anything.

[Jake 48]

I agree with trying the tutoring or substitute route. Our high school has certified subs, I think $85.00 a day and non certified @ $60.00 per day. Good luck !

[billisonboard]

Feb 4, 2018 10:04:51 GMT -5 Jake 48 said:

I agree with trying the tutoring or substitute route. Our high school has certified subs, I think $85.00 a day and non certified @ $60.00 per day. Good luck !

If the idea is to gain insight as to whether you want to be a teacher or not, I don't think tutoring would help.

My personal experience: I am an excellent educator and a lousy public school teacher. Teaching is 180 days of attendance taking, lesson plans, setting up a grading system, grading assignments, maintaining a grade book, dealing with administrators and parents, etc. I work well with kids. All that other stuff? I learned not really my thing.

Sub a little and then get a longer term sub assignment. 

[giramomma]

Private math tutors get paid 25-50/hour in my parts.

Working 15 hours a week, you are looking at 2K a month.

Perhaps this is something to consider..

[Deleted]

Rob Base 2.0 can correct me if I'm wrong, but the original post sounded more like he was looking for a career change and was thinking of teaching as that next career.  He asked specifically about whether he'd be able to get enough time in to qualify for a pension, etc. and mentioned he had already signed up for "Troops to Teacher" before he retired from the military..

I didn't get the impression that he was looking for a part-time job or volunteer work, but that's the direction most of the suggestions are taking him.  The "hobby" aspect he mentioned was to taking some courses at the CC toward certification.  I agree that he should explore teaching in a real world situation before committing too much time and money.  Substituting is great for testing the waters as is teaching a community college course if he's qualified.  Teaching at the local community center or tutoring isn't.  The "students" at the local community center are nothing like 25-35 high school students.  Neither is one-on-one in a tutoring situation.  Plus, tutoring is a hard gig to break into around here with so many college students and teachers doing it.

You already know you like the "teaching" part from working with recruits.  See what it takes to get a substitute license.  Here you have to be drug-tested, have a background check run by the Alabama Bureau of Investigation, and apply to the state.  Get the license and spend a day here and there in different local school systems.  Not only will you get a feel for whether you want to teach in public school, but you will get a feel for specific schools and age groups.

Good luck.  As I said before, we need good teachers.  Teaching is a good second career if you have the personality for it.  Some of our best are former military.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Thanks again all.

 Not worried about getting a Teacher pension. I just don't know how it works and don't want to be penalized (have to contribute or something to a pension that I may never qualify for).

Yes the "hobby" would be taking a class or 2 here and there to re-fresh on Math and build towards teacher certification.  I am not so interesting in tutoring or anything in addition to my normal job (also I don't think I have the skills right now to do that).  I am just not feeling my job lately and I felt so alive while teaching. I'll see what a conversation with the Troops to Teachers POC brings.....  

[gooddecisions]

Feb 4, 2018 14:21:46 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Thanks again all.

 Not worried about getting a Teacher pension. I just don't know how it works and don't want to be penalized (have to contribute or something to a pension that I may never qualify for).

Yes the "hobby" would be taking a class or 2 here and there to re-fresh on Math and build towards teacher certification.  I am not so interesting in tutoring or anything in addition to my normal job (also I don't think I have the skills right now to do that).  I am just not feeling my job lately and I felt so alive while teaching. I'll see what a conversation with the Troops to Teachers POC brings.....  

Have you considered a corporate trainer position either with the government or private company?

[Shooby]

Feb 4, 2018 14:21:46 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Thanks again all.

 Not worried about getting a Teacher pension. I just don't know how it works and don't want to be penalized (have to contribute or something to a pension that I may never qualify for).

Yes the "hobby" would be taking a class or 2 here and there to re-fresh on Math and build towards teacher certification.  I am not so interesting in tutoring or anything in addition to my normal job (also I don't think I have the skills right now to do that).  I am just not feeling my job lately and I felt so alive while teaching. I'll see what a conversation with the Troops to Teachers POC brings.....  

You felt "alive" doing it on a part time basis.  When it's your full time job and you are not in total control of the curriculum and other things, maybe you will find the same stressors as any other job.  I am not sure why people nowadays think that just because they like something that it then has to become their career.  I mean, you can do whatever you choose, but have your eyes wide open.  Earning less money and then have the issues of full time job, the office politics of that particular position, the issues of students, etc, isn't all charm. 

[billisonboard]

Something else to think about for anyone considering this type of move:  Will someone want to hire you for a position usually filled by a much younger person?  I made a comment to my principal during my first year of full time teaching about how I could handle a parent meeting independently because he hadn't hired a 23 year old.  He grumbled back something about having hired a 30 something first year teacher.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Feb 4, 2018 15:28:14 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Feb 4, 2018 14:21:46 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Thanks again all.

 Not worried about getting a Teacher pension. I just don't know how it works and don't want to be penalized (have to contribute or something to a pension that I may never qualify for).

Yes the "hobby" would be taking a class or 2 here and there to re-fresh on Math and build towards teacher certification.  I am not so interesting in tutoring or anything in addition to my normal job (also I don't think I have the skills right now to do that).  I am just not feeling my job lately and I felt so alive while teaching. I'll see what a conversation with the Troops to Teachers POC brings.....  

You felt "alive" doing it on a part time basis.  When it's your full time job and you are not in total control of the curriculum and other things, maybe you will find the same stressors as any other job.  I am not sure why people nowadays think that just because they like something that it then has to become their career.  I mean, you can do whatever you choose, but have your eyes wide open.  Earning less money and then have the issues of full time job, the office politics of that particular position, the issues of students, etc, isn't all charm. 

It wasn't really a part time basis.  It was a 2 week class that I taught like 2 weeks "on" (teaching), 2 weeks "off" (update lesson plans, catch up on mandatory training, other assorted extra duties my boss gave me, etc.), 2 weeks "on", 2 weeks "off", rinse, wash, repeat.....But I take your point.  I probably will end up staying in current job, but nothing wrong with considering options........