The curious different treatment of Weinstein and Trump

[Opti]

www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16526922/harvey-weinstein-donald-trump-sexual-harassment

The story, by now, reads as familiar. Summer Zervos got her big break appearing on a network television show. This was 2007, and Zervos was a young woman from Orange County, California, eager to take the next step in her career. But then her role on the show ended.

She reached out to the man behind the show, a man who was rich and powerful and connected. She wanted another job. She wanted advice. And he was happy to meet with her. He invited her to his office, in New York.

When she arrived, she says the man immediately kissed her on the mouth. It made her uncomfortable, but she rationalized it. Maybe this is just how he greets people, she thought. He told her she was great, she was smart, she was attractive. He said he would love to work with her more. When the meeting was over, she remembers, he kissed her on the mouth again.

Time passed. The powerful man called Zervos to say he was coming to the West Coast. They made plans to meet at the Beverly Hills Hotel and go out to dinner. When Zervos arrived, she was brought to the man’s bungalow. She says he immediately began kissing her, open-mouthed. She pulled away. He asked her to come sit next to him. She did so. He began kissing her again, and grabbed her breast. She moved across the room. He followed her, embraced her, and rubbed his crotch against her.

Spoiler, the man isn't Weinstein. Why do you think Trump who is likely just as bad, is President whereas Weinstein has lost his job and standing?

[dezii]

Referring to our current POTUS....what is wrong with these people who continue to support them...do we blame the Donald for the going ons or those who support him...? Is a booming Dow all that matters..?
=========================================================
"more, the sheer number of accusations against him, concerning everything from sexual misconduct to obstruction of justice, may actually work in his favor. Allegations of sexual harassment and assault are “just part of this much, much broader set of reasons that people think he’s not equipped to be president,” Lawless said.

That allows his administration to dismiss the harassment and assault accusations as “just one more thing that Democrats are throwing at the wall” — and that argument works on voters “who feel like no matter what this guy does, there’s a new investigation.”


“We’ve gotten to a point now where there are so many concerns about so many facets of his presidency that it’s hard for any of them to be damning,” Lawless said."

[Virgil Showlion]

dezii's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady, Shooby, AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP, myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

[dezii]

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

Sorry Virgil...have to disagree with u..my posting  of the excerpt was not in support of leaving our Donald alone...the only thing that is important is his policies ...all else, his personal foibles ..his sexual harassments and worse be forgotten, not important..his idiotic and dangerous pronouncements be over looked...his constant lies are acceptable, just Donald being Donald...not so.

These things he brings upon himself and can not be ignored...that he is still being supported and there is so much bad that can be laid on him...that it seems his supporters continue to support him...well I guess the rest of us just have to accept that and hope some will fall away, and the good thing is we all know it is a minority who support him..Not all are raciest..though so many are...and if the rest of us turn out in force then the majority will prevail...and hopefully he will be a footnote in American history...possible delegated to folklore..like Johnny Appleseed and such...except instead of a pot on his head for a hat his crown will be painted yellow...

[Virgil Showlion]

I wasn't suggesting you believed the media should give Pres. Trump a break. In fact, if your account ever stops carpet bombing the board with anti-Trump polemics, and starts talking about, say, your approval of Trump's pick of Agriculture Secretary, we'll have no choice to disable it on the suspicion it's been hacked.

However, Mr. Lawless' statements in the paragraphs you excerpted are correct: the more the media criticizes Pres. Trump for everything under the sun, the less impactful their criticism becomes, even to the point where it benefits the man.

[Rob Base 2.0]

All that and also Trump denies it all where as Weinstein admitted some of it

And while not POTUS, not only did Letterman (who admitted to things) get to keep his old show, now that he "retired" from that show he even now has a new show on Netflix.

[djAdvocate]

right, so the message is:

"it doesn't matter what you do, just don't admit to it"

is that how we plan on treating sexual assault going forward?

[happyhoix]

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

Back in the Clinton days, there was a lot of talk about how this was a Christian nation and the POTUS should be a good Christian role model. So I've been surprised the white evangelicals haven't turned away from Trump, especially with his whole porn model while married thing.

I tried to find the latest poll numbers on evangelicals - I know 81% of them supported Trump during the election. By August of 2017 it had slipped to 62. I couldn't find a more recent poll, I'd be interested to see what it is now, post the porn star allegations.

nypost.com/2017/09/15/evangelicals-are-souring-on-trump-poll-shows/

So apparently at least some white Evangelicals no longer think 'tolerance by necessity' is such a great thing.

 

[happyhoix]

Jan 14, 2018 11:48:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

right, so the message is:

"it doesn't matter what you do, just don't admit to it"

is that how we plan on treating sexual assault going forward?

I remember Trump on TV saying "Moore says he didn't do it, and we have to believe him."

So I think you're right. Deny it and scream 'fake news' and you're golden.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

By reporting everything Trump says or does? Oh, the horror! How dare they?
Furthermore, his personal flaws DO have an impact on his policies. 

[Opti]

Jan 14, 2018 13:54:43 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jan 14, 2018 11:48:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

right, so the message is:

"it doesn't matter what you do, just don't admit to it"

is that how we plan on treating sexual assault going forward?

I remember Trump on TV saying "Moore says he didn't do it, and we have to believe him."

So I think you're right. Deny it and scream 'fake news' and you're golden.

This works for some people. Unfortunately I think it works more for Trump supporters in general than it does non Trump supporters.

[Opti]

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

I think Trump supporters are in denial as to how bad this man really is. Yes they say they can't take the unending attacks, yet many of these posters couldn't get enough of Hillary slams so is it really too much coverage or is it really they are in denial about Trump and refuse to wake up and see reality?

I'll be honest, I think its the latter for far too many. Heck, one poster thinks Oprah not outing Weinstein is a bigger deal than Trump being a Weinstein. That is just crazy.

[Gardening Grandma]

The damn media!  Reporting on what the President of the United States says and does!  How dare they? 

[Gardening Grandma]

Jan 14, 2018 15:07:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

I think Trump supporters are in denial as to how bad this man really is. Yes they say they can't take the unending attacks, yet many of these posters couldn't get enough of Hillary slams so is it really too much coverage or is it really they are in denial about Trump and refuse to wake up and see reality?

I'll be honest, I think its the latter for far too many. Heck, one poster thinks Oprah not outing Weinstein is a bigger deal than Trump being a Weinstein. That is just crazy.

That is one explanation.  I'm more inclined to think that it is human nature to dig one's heels in rather than admit the truth.  And he DOES appeal to racists, bigots and misogynists.  

[Opti]

There many parts of human nature. One of them is to grow up and deal with what is, instead of holding onto a fantasy that does not exist.

[Gardening Grandma]

Jan 14, 2018 15:33:00 GMT -5 Opti said:

There many parts of human nature. One of them is to grow up and deal with what is, instead of holding onto a fantasy that does not exist.

Well, that requires a degree of maturity and the ability to accept facts....

[Tennesseer]

Jan 14, 2018 15:07:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

I think Trump supporters are in denial as to how bad this man really is. Yes they say they can't take the unending attacks, yet many of these posters couldn't get enough of Hillary slams so is it really too much coverage or is it really they are in denial about Trump and refuse to wake up and see reality?

I'll be honest, I think its the latter for far too many. Heck, one poster thinks Oprah not outing Weinstein is a bigger deal than Trump being a Weinstein. That is just crazy.

And still do slam Hillary and Obama every chance they get. Thanks, ConservativeNutHouse!

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 14, 2018 14:18:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

The campaigns against him and Ms. Clinton had grown insufferable by early 2016. Ms. Clinton lost and has since fallen out of the limelight, but the media has continued to force feed the public their daily jug of anti-Trump outrage and indignation. They jump from scandal to scandal, never focusing, damaging their own credibility in their haste, and inadvertently helping the man in their zeal.

There's also an element of "tolerance by necessity". A president's personal flaws have negligible impact compared to his policies. In the minds of many Republican voters (and not unreasonably) no amount of unscrupulous behaviour in Pres. Trump's private life can outweigh the value of having his policies enshrined. Willful disregard of his personal flaws is part and parcel of making this happen.

By reporting everything Trump says or does? Oh, the horror! How dare they?
Furthermore, his personal flaws DO have an impact on his policies. 

There's also the issue of relative standing to his accusers.

This is an extension of the "offense fatigue". Closely related to it. The gist is that the MSM, through their conduct over the past five years--pandering, lies of omission, muckraking, partisanship, bias, and journalistic incompetence--made themselves an enemy of the people, especially of the libertarian right, and especially during the 2016 election.

The election was the last straw. So many institutions behaved so shamefully, there was really no coming back from it.

I know many posters dispute this. So be it. Suffice to say here that enmity between the public and the media surged in that season.

Pres. Trump therefore became an enemy of an enemy, and it propelled him into the presidency more than any other factor. It's still one of his greatest assets today: the hypocrisy of his accusers, the media in particular.

This isn't a logically valid reason to support him, but I can tell you from personal experience how hard it is not to sympathize with a man being attacked by hypocrites out of sheer spite, with scant regard for objectivity, justice, or ill consequences. It's hard enough that I imagine many Americans are happy to overlook its insufficiency as a reason to support Pres. Trump.

[happyhoix]

Jan 14, 2018 9:22:37 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

dezii 's excerpt hits the nail on the head, and it echoes what Green Eyed Lady , Shooby , AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP , myself and others have said: people are sick to death of the neverending media offensive against Pres. Trump, eager to ignore it.

His problem is his need to be in the constant spotlight and his inability to tell the difference between being infamous and being popular.

You can't blame the media who report on his tweets and speeches - if he didn't tweet or talk off the cuff, the coverage would be exponentially smaller - but he can't stand not to be at the center of each media cycle.

I think he forgot that people get tired of the same old bullshit, though. We're sinking into a national ennui in which we have no more fucks to give. And nothing could be worse for Trump than being ignored.

[weltschmerz]

This isn't a logically valid reason to support him, but I can tell you from personal experience how hard it is not to sympathize with a man being attacked by hypocrites out of sheer spite, with scant regard for objectivity, justice, or ill consequences. It's hard enough that I imagine many Americans are happy to overlook its insufficiency as a reason to support Pres. Trump.

Oh, you mean how Obama was attacked out of sheer spite? It was nothing BUT spite and racism, going as far as proclaiming he's not a real American. Kind of like how Trump is STILL attacking him, by undoing everything good that Obama had done, just out of spite?
Kind of like that?
Spare me.

[weltschmerz]

You can sympathise with Trump all you want, but he's a dick of the first order.

[Tennesseer]

Opening and closing paragraphs.

Trump’s media neediness

By Jennifer Rubin December 29, 2017

In President Trump’s interview with the New York Times, he declared:

Another reason that I’m going to win another four years is because newspapers, television, all forms of media will tank if I’m not there. Because without me, their ratings are going down the tubes. Without me, the New York Times will indeed be not the failing New York Times, but the failed New York Times. So they basically have to let me win. And eventually, probably six months before the election, they’ll be loving me because they’re saying, “Please, please, don’t lose Donald Trump.”

On one level, the comment is ludicrous. Despite the frenzied paranoia of the Fox News crowd, the Times doesn’t determine election winners. If it did, he wouldn’t be president. Indeed, if the Trumpists thought the Times had such power, it wouldn’t be the “Failing New York Times,” but rather the “All-Powerful New York Times.”

The comment is also revealing of Trump’s obsession with the media. While decrying the “fake news,” he’s intoxicated, addicted even, to the attention. No president has been obsessed with TV as Trump is. (He reportedly watches up to eight hours a day.) He runs to the Times to unburden himself on a regular basis, just as he seeks refuge in the comfy environs of Fox News prime-time shows. He seemingly makes pronouncements and decisions based on news coverage, not on his own administration data. While he imagines the news media “needs” him, it is Trump who craves approving coverage and rages at their criticism.

Trust in the media now exceeds trust in Trump in many polls. That’s a sign of a healthy media, an alert electorate and trouble for the narcissist in chief. He really cannot control what members of the media say, which makes their role as independent sources of information among the most potent threats to his presidency.

Complete article here: Trump’s media neediness

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 14, 2018 17:14:25 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

This isn't a logically valid reason to support him, but I can tell you from personal experience how hard it is not to sympathize with a man being attacked by hypocrites out of sheer spite, with scant regard for objectivity, justice, or ill consequences. It's hard enough that I imagine many Americans are happy to overlook its insufficiency as a reason to support Pres. Trump.

Oh, you mean how Obama was attacked out of sheer spite? It was nothing BUT spite and racism, going as far as proclaiming he's not a real American. Kind of like how Trump is STILL attacking him, by undoing everything good that Obama had done, just out of spite?
Kind of like that?
Spare me.

Tu quoque. Not a valid counterargument.

Besides this, I never attacked Pres. Obama out of spite, never criticized his race, never proclaimed he wasn't a real American, never called him names, and was diligent to criticize him in measure. I have standing to assert the bolded.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 14, 2018 17:19:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Trust in the media now exceeds trust in Trump in many polls. That’s a sign of a healthy media, an alert electorate and trouble for the narcissist in chief. He really cannot control what members of the media say, which makes their role as independent sources of information among the most potent threats to his presidency.

Paraphrasing: "We're probably the least dirty shirt in a pile of dirty laundry."

What planet do these people live on?

[djAdvocate]

Jan 14, 2018 17:19:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Opening and closing paragraphs.

Trump’s media neediness

By Jennifer Rubin December 29, 2017

In President Trump’s interview with the New York Times, he declared:

Another reason that I’m going to win another four years is because newspapers, television, all forms of media will tank if I’m not there. Because without me, their ratings are going down the tubes.

right, because the lurid details of Anthony Weiner's sexting and that Utah Congressman playing footsy in the mensroom, and the idiot gambler that shot up a CW concert in Las Vegas are going to just vaporize when Trump leaves office.

the man just has no limit to his ego, does he?

[djAdvocate]

Jan 14, 2018 17:16:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

You can sympathise with Trump all you want, but he's a dick of the first order.

fortunately for Democrats, he is an incredibly galvanizing dick.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 14, 2018 17:09:20 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

You can't blame the media who report on his tweets and speeches - if he didn't tweet or talk off the cuff, the coverage would be exponentially smaller - but he can't stand not to be at the center of each media cycle.

It's not that they report what he does, it's the way they report it.

They have complete editorial discretion about which facts to emphasize, which facts to omit, what to exaggerate, what to downplay, which "experts" to interview, how much to speculate, what verbiage to use, how long to carry a story, etc., etc., and they've been playing fast and loose with their discretion at a severe cost to their credibility.

I'm not saying he doesn't provide them with plenty of opportunities, but they are the gasoline to his fire, and he's not the one getting burned.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 14, 2018 17:32:44 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 14, 2018 17:19:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Trust in the media now exceeds trust in Trump in many polls. That’s a sign of a healthy media, an alert electorate and trouble for the narcissist in chief. He really cannot control what members of the media say, which makes their role as independent sources of information among the most potent threats to his presidency.

"We're probably the least dirty shirt in a pile of dirty laundry."

What planet do these people live on?

I checked the article and your quote isn't there.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 14, 2018 17:42:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 14, 2018 17:32:44 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

"We're probably the least dirty shirt in a pile of dirty laundry."

What planet do these people live on?

I checked the article and your quote isn't there.

Thank you for pointing this out. I fixed my post to avoid any further potential for confusion.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 14, 2018 17:28:25 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 14, 2018 17:14:25 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Oh, you mean how Obama was attacked out of sheer spite? It was nothing BUT spite and racism, going as far as proclaiming he's not a real American. Kind of like how Trump is STILL attacking him, by undoing everything good that Obama had done, just out of spite?
Kind of like that?
Spare me.

Tu quoque. Not a valid counterargument.

Besides this, I never attacked Pres. Obama out of spite, never criticized his race, never proclaimed he wasn't a real American, never called him names, and was diligent to criticize him in measure. I have standing to assert the bolded.

Kindly point out where I said it was YOU.
Talk about an invalid counterargument......