OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 3, 2018 19:46:31 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 3, 2018 20:04:27 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 8, 2018 10:01:20 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 8, 2018 10:36:57 GMT -5
I'd never heard of "swatting" before. The man who called in the raid (Mr. Barriss) should be tried for Mr. Finch's death. The police were working off of Barriss' phony information about an armed hostage taker. Whether the officer who killed Mr. Finch should also be punished for unreasonable use of force, I can't say.
The officers caught giving false testimony in the Bexar County shooting should be tried for perjury and manslaughter.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 8, 2018 10:48:55 GMT -5
1. It is totally absurd the time line police take to "investigate" police shootings. 2. There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified. And Your link is to an opinion piece that states: Wichita’s Police Department has apparently already exonerated the officer who shot Finch, ... I can't find a link that they have done that (yet?). If they do, I would have a problem with that result. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 8, 2018 11:08:08 GMT -5
2. There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified. How do you mean? We know due to the nature of the "prank" that the police had a reasonable suspicion the suspect was armed and dangerous. The article states the officer fired because Mr. Finch appeared to reach for something at his waist while coming out the door. Assuming this account isn't directly contradicted by video evidence, there isn't a police force on the continent who'd rule this an unjustified shooting. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 8, 2018 11:10:32 GMT -5
I'd never heard of "swatting" before. The man who called in the raid (Mr. Barriss) should be tried for Mr. Finch's death. The police were working off of Barriss' phony information about an armed hostage taker. Whether the officer who killed Mr. Finch should also be punished for unreasonable use of force, I can't say. The officers caught giving false testimony in the Bexar County shooting should be tried for perjury and manslaughter. Th usual 'victim' in a swatting event where a SWAT team goes to someone's home is someone famous. Or at least the publicized swatting events are. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 8, 2018 11:31:24 GMT -5
2. There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified. How do you mean? We know due to the nature of the "prank" that the police had a reasonable suspicion the suspect was armed and dangerous. The article states the officer fired because Mr. Finch appeared to reach for something at his waist while coming out the door. Assuming this account isn't directly contradicted by video evidence, there isn't a police force on the continent who'd rule this an unjustified shooting. "Our officers came here preparing for a hostage situation. Several got in position. A male came to the front door, and one of our officers discharged his weapon." What position do police officers get into in this situation? |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 8, 2018 13:22:56 GMT -5
I'd never heard of "swatting" before. The man who called in the raid (Mr. Barriss) should be tried for Mr. Finch's death. The police were working off of Barriss' phony information about an armed hostage taker. Whether the officer who killed Mr. Finch should also be punished for unreasonable use of force, I can't say. The officers caught giving false testimony in the Bexar County shooting should be tried for perjury and manslaughter. Th usual 'victim' in a swatting event where a SWAT team goes to someone's home is someone famous. Or at least the publicized swatting events are. Not necessarily, Tenn. Swatting is pretty common in the gaming community and the folks that are swatted are only well-known within that community. The demographic is, for the most part, pretty young so they're not exactly good at thinking things through before they react stupidly. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 8, 2018 23:57:15 GMT -5
How do you mean? We know due to the nature of the "prank" that the police had a reasonable suspicion the suspect was armed and dangerous. The article states the officer fired because Mr. Finch appeared to reach for something at his waist while coming out the door. Assuming this account isn't directly contradicted by video evidence, there isn't a police force on the continent who'd rule this an unjustified shooting. "Our officers came here preparing for a hostage situation. Several got in position. A male came to the front door, and one of our officers discharged his weapon." What position do police officers get into in this situation? I don't know. Based on my Hollywood education, I assume they take up firing positions behind cover. They've been told there's an armed hostage taker who's already shot one man dead prowling through the house. I assure you that, were I in their position, I'd be pointing a gun at the door from behind cover somewhere. If you're leading me somewhere with this question, I appreciate the Socratic approach, but let's just skip to the part where you enlighten me about what you know and I don't. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2018 1:15:19 GMT -5
"Our officers came here preparing for a hostage situation. Several got in position. A male came to the front door, and one of our officers discharged his weapon." What position do police officers get into in this situation? I don't know. Based on my Hollywood education, I assume they take up firing positions behind cover. They've been told there's an armed hostage taker who's already shot one man dead prowling through the house. I assure you that, were I in their position, I'd be pointing a gun at the door from behind cover somewhere. ... I would also assume they were behind cover and thus not at immediate risk of being shot. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 9, 2018 9:52:30 GMT -5
I don't know. Based on my Hollywood education, I assume they take up firing positions behind cover. They've been told there's an armed hostage taker who's already shot one man dead prowling through the house. I assure you that, were I in their position, I'd be pointing a gun at the door from behind cover somewhere. ... I would also assume they were behind cover and thus not at immediate risk of being shot. Unless police are in the habit of firing blindly from behind cover, they're going to be partly exposed (their heads and parts of their upper body at least). The idea is to minimize one's profile as a target without compromising stability or aim. Where I agree with you is that firing in response to a suspect's arm position alone is too permissive a standard. I know self-defense trainers claim that an armed man can draw and fire in under a second, and perhaps in some minute fraction of cases a suspect can manage to draw and fire with the alacrity of a master gunslinger, but weigh this against the dozens (hundreds?) of men gunned down by police because of nothing more than an errant gesture. There's no contest. As I see it, the most permissive firing standard that still gives a suspect a chance of getting out alive: i) gun is visible, and the arm holding the gun is in motion, or ii) suspect's hand is in pocket and has refused to comply with orders to withdraw it. |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2018 10:11:52 GMT -5
... Where I agree with you is that firing in response to a suspect's arm position alone is too permissive a standard. ... As I see it, the most permissive firing standard that still gives a suspect a chance of getting out alive: i) gun is visible, and the arm holding the gun is in motion, or ii) suspect's hand is in pocket and has refused to comply with orders to withdraw it.  like I said: "2. There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified. " |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 9, 2018 10:39:42 GMT -5
statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/wichita-a-deadly-non-swat-swatting/The unidentified officer firing the shot was, according to Livingston, standing next to the officer wearing the bodycam, and both were apparently behind a parked car, though apparently not bracing themselves on the car. It is difficult to judge distance from the brief video, but it appears to be in the area of 50 yards.While this portion of Livingston’s comments was unclear, it appears Finch was being given simultaneous commands from the North, East and West. No other officers are visible in the brief video. Livingston also noted the 911 dispatchers are not employees of the WPD, and could not definitively say whether they had any training on swatting issues, though it’s safe to believe they did not. WPD Chief Ramsey confirmed the WPD has had no training on the issue. And this was not a SWAT team! Another execution by police! I can save all of us time here, with police investigating police,,,,, It will be totally justified shooting!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 9, 2018 11:16:15 GMT -5
... Where I agree with you is that firing in response to a suspect's arm position alone is too permissive a standard. ... As I see it, the most permissive firing standard that still gives a suspect a chance of getting out alive: i) gun is visible, and the arm holding the gun is in motion, or ii) suspect's hand is in pocket and has refused to comply with orders to withdraw it. like I said: "2. There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified. " I assumed you were talking about 'justified' in the legal sense, which is a fair assumption. In future, may I boldly suggest "There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified (morally, if not legally)."? |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 9, 2018 11:17:35 GMT -5
I can save all of us time here, with police investigating police,,,,, It will be totally justified shooting! I will stake -$100 and bet against you here.  |
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 9, 2018 11:37:20 GMT -5
like I said: "2. There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified. " I assumed you were talking about 'justified' in the legal sense, which is a fair assumption. In future, may I boldly suggest "There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified (morally, if not legally)."? I have no problem with you boldly suggesting anything you feel the need to boldly suggest. |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 9, 2018 22:36:55 GMT -5
I can save all of us time here, with police investigating police,,,,, It will be totally justified shooting! I will stake -$100 and bet against you here. Ok you are on. What is the bet? 1. That the shooting was justified, 2. Was regrettable, But no charges 3. Is be charged with something. I will go with 1. that the shooting was justified. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 10, 2018 8:58:57 GMT -5
I will stake -$100 and bet against you here. Ok you are on. What is the bet? 1. That the shooting was justified, 2. Was regrettable, But no charges 3. Is be charged with something. I will go with 1. that the shooting was justified. Wow. Sticking to your guns even though we're betting negative $100.  I will take 3. If you're right, you pay me $100. If I'm right, I'll pay you $100. However, I can't in good conscience take your money, so I'll have to pass on the bet.  |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 10, 2018 22:05:44 GMT -5
Ok you are on. What is the bet? 1. That the shooting was justified, 2. Was regrettable, But no charges 3. Is be charged with something. I will go with 1. that the shooting was justified. Wow. Sticking to your guns even though we're betting negative $100. I will take 3. If you're right, you pay me $100. If I'm right, I'll pay you $100. However, I can't in good conscience take your money, so I'll have to pass on the bet. That's good one Virgil, I missed the - sign. I am still willing to wager that the police rule this as justified. the wager could be something as simple as?? |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 11, 2018 9:55:26 GMT -5
Wow. Sticking to your guns even though we're betting negative $100. I will take 3. If you're right, you pay me $100. If I'm right, I'll pay you $100. However, I can't in good conscience take your money, so I'll have to pass on the bet. That's good one Virgil, I missed the - sign. I am still willing to wager that the police rule this as justified. the wager could be something as simple as?? I don't bet for money, OC. And I wouldn't take this bet anyway. Billis said, "There appears to be no evidence this shooting was justified," referring to moral justification. I'll say, "There appears to be no evidence this shooting wasn't justified," referring to the legal police standard for justified shootings we all know and love. |
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 25, 2018 10:26:28 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 29, 2018 11:14:18 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 14:21:31 GMT -5
Maybe they have a lot of people the police need to shoot ?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 29, 2018 20:43:14 GMT -5
Maybe they have a lot of people the police need to shoot ? In Wichita?? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 15:09:47 GMT -5
Maybe they have a lot of people the police need to shoot ? In Wichita?? You never know !  |
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