HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Mar 30, 2011 9:46:04 GMT -5
I've never understood this trap. My spouse and I are really too busy working to spend most of our hard earned money LOL.
We do "farm out" jobs, but $20 a week for lawn care and $200 a month for a maid really isn't that big of chunk for a dual income household (luckily).
I guess part of it is we like the simple things in life. One vacation we flew to Hawaii (on miles) and spent a week camping on the big island. It cost a whopping $10 for a week long pass to the campground and spent the week hiking around the volcanoes. We did have to buy food, but considering some people spend $300+ a night in a hotel... it's just not my thing. I guess I'm lucky? LOL
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 12:44:04 GMT -5
Someone on the board (I forget who) recently said something that really resonated with me - you can have anything you want but not everything you want.
Our culture is becoming so immersed in the gotta-have-it-now mindset that it's really becoming difficult to keep a firm hold on the reality of limitations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 13:23:16 GMT -5
Someone on the board (I forget who) recently said something that really resonated with me - you can have anything you want but not everything you want. Our culture is becoming so immersed in the gotta-have-it-now mindset that it's really becoming difficult to keep a firm hold on the reality of limitations. I think that is where I am having issues with my wife, she wants to live now while she can because she feels after a certain point your life is over. She feels she will one day she will be 35 and two kids and her life would be over so she wants to enjoy it now. I feel you can still enjoy your life while being 35 with 2 kids. I don't want to borrow/shortchange from tomorrow to enjoy today. I rather go at it In moderatuib and limit my needs while she looks at our friends and feel that she is missing out on life. I told her last night she needs to stop comparing us to her friends becase we don't have access to the full story (income, inheritance, loans, credit card debt, etc) and just focus on us and live our life.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 13:31:47 GMT -5
Young people are so funny. Life's over at 35, really? Jeez, she probably has another 70 years to live after that. If life was no fun after that, we'd all commit suicide at 35.
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Clifford
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Post by Clifford on Mar 30, 2011 13:34:14 GMT -5
Someone on the board (I forget who) recently said something that really resonated with me - you can have anything you want but not everything you want. Our culture is becoming so immersed in the gotta-have-it-now mindset that it's really becoming difficult to keep a firm hold on the reality of limitations. She feels she will one day she will be 35 and two kids and her life would be over so she wants to enjoy it now. I feel you can still enjoy your life while being 35 with 2 kids. I don't want to borrow/shortchange from tomorrow to enjoy today. Umm. I'm 35 with 2 kids. We have moved several times with the kids in tow, and do not feel that we have missed out on much. Life's an adventure that you can play safe or you can go for it no matter what your age. I know from your prior posts that this is likely your wife encouraging you to spend now and using the "life will be over soon" argument. I do think that most others would tell you that your life would only be over (at 35 with 2 kids) if you choose to let it be.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 13:35:12 GMT -5
I think that is where I am having issues with my wife, she wants to live now while she can because she feels after a certain point your life is over.
She feels she will one day she will be 35 and two kids and her life would be over so she wants to enjoy it now. I feel you can still enjoy your life while being 35 with 2 kids. I don't want to borrow/shortchange from tomorrow to enjoy today.
Wow. Do you think she really wants kids? I certainly wouldn't, if I thought that having them would mean my life was over.
I agree with you, obviously. Not too many people err on the side of saving too much. It's much more common to feel like your wife does, that tomorrow everything could be gone so you might as well "live it up." That's dangerous thinking, in my opinion.
Personally, I can't relax and enjoy today if tomorrow is not reasonably secure. But not everyone is me/you. Plus, I've (almost) always had sufficient means to do both (secure the future AND enjoy today) and if I didn't, I can appreciate that it would be difficult to choose one, or even to feel like I had to choose one.
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strider
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Post by strider on Mar 30, 2011 13:43:17 GMT -5
I'm trying to live as simple as I did in college with a $40k salary. I get to save buku money now. I spend a little more money on beer and dining now because I can but my expenses are relatively the same!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 30, 2011 13:43:49 GMT -5
In his wife's defense, you really don't have much of a life outside of kids while they're really young. Those first few years go by super fast though. One day you have a toddler crawling around in the living room and what feels like six months later you have a 6 year old princess who thinks she's 13 already. It's trippy.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 13:46:14 GMT -5
Yeah, but that's how it's supposed to be, and I thought parents were supposed to enjoy being wrapped up in their kiddos those first few years. Why would anyone want to go down a road that they viewed as some sort of prison?
I wonder the same thing about people who get engaged and complain about how their freedom is gone now.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 30, 2011 13:48:44 GMT -5
I think most people (not most people on this board, most people in RL) don't even realize they're falling in to the trap. They get their annual raise or a new job and all the extra money they thought they were going to have just seems to evaporate. For us it was a new, more expensive house much closer to our jobs (I don't regret this in the least), a second car (could have been better planned for, but I'm still glad we got it), and more dinners out. Or spending on premium groceries, a few new computer games, etc. We got a wake up call when DH lost his job. Luckily, we weren't far enough down that we couldn't pull ourselves up, and that's what we've done. Combined with getting ourselves out of consumer debt, I also finally got a promotion and now make alone what we used to make combined. However, we're still saving more than we ever did before. My new ways to handle raises? I set my 403(b) contribution to go up at the same time I get a raise. When I get my raise (end of April) I will re-evaluate our budget to make sure its still meeting our needs, and then put pretty much all of the "extra" money toward SL payoff and savings. When DH gets a job again (someday), I expect we will pound down remaining SL debt, bulk up his retirement savings, and save for home rennovation projects. Mostly, I think being completely aware of all the money that comes in to our house and where it goes helps tremendously. Due to inflation, I will probably need to increase our grocery budget and our car budget (gas) not this year but next year. Since I track where our money goes, though, I'll have the data I need to make the changes. This would be us. We piddled away alot of money the first 4 years or so that we were married. And now, we don't have money to piddle away. Our wakeup call came when my dad had a stroke and my parents could no longer be our day care. We ran in the red for months once we started having to pay for dcp. We're no longer running in the red every month but we're not saving anything either. And I admit, I need to sit down with DH and go over the finances because he does the financial stuff in our house and I don't know where all the money is going. I loathe his spreadsheet something fierce and will probably try to it all in the mint.com or something.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 30, 2011 13:49:26 GMT -5
Well, it depends on how you define "life as over."
We have two younger children. Yes, the days of sleeping in until 10, having sex, napping, having sex again, and then eating something are GONE for another decade.
My husband and I still go out on dates. We still travel for vacations. By the time my older child was 3, he had been to more states than I had by the time I was 21. We'll go to Europe sometime in the future. Our kids go down by 7:30, so we still have plenty of "adult" time at night. My husband and I still engage in our hobbies, though it might not be at the same pace that it was when we were single.
It also doesn't strike me that you guys do many "adult" things, meaning, dinner at adult-only restaurants (and Red Lobster does not qualify), frequent symphony orchestra concerts, frequent rock concerts. I'm assuming you don't routinely (like 4 days a week) get so drunk that you have problems functioning or get high routinely..So, I guess I don't see what you are missing out on..
Yes, having kids doesn't mean you get to live like a 22 yo anymore. Yes, she won't be able to put herself first anymore. But, that doesn't mean her life is over.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 13:50:12 GMT -5
I agree. Are those people who claim that parenting is the greatest joy in the world lying?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 30, 2011 13:53:51 GMT -5
In his wife's defense, you really don't have much of a life outside of kids while they're really young. Those first few years go by super fast though. One day you have a toddler crawling around in the living room and what feels like six months later you have a 6 year old princess who thinks she's 13 already. It's trippy. lol. I'll have to get back to you in a couple of years. We've got a not quite 3 year old and a 17 month old. I'm finally starting to feel that I can be the mom I want to be. And we're 40/41 and didn't expect to have any kids (medical issues for both of us) so it's been interesting the last few years in our house, to say the least.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 30, 2011 13:59:16 GMT -5
Are those people who claim that parenting is the greatest joy in the world lying? Just my personal take, so don't assume I'm speaking for everyone. Parenting is absolutely great, when the kids are old enough to actually need parenting. All babies do is sleep, eat, and fill diapers. The sleeping part obviously requires no input on my part. I don't lactate, so I couldn't help with the feeding part. Changing diapers is pretty lame. Once they start crawling around, talking, etc., they're pretty fun, but the first few months aren't all that great.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 14:04:27 GMT -5
we had a long conversation last night because of the move and what we are going to do moving forwards concerning savings and debt.
The kid conversation came up when I told her that as we make more we will have more disposable invome and we will be able to do more, so I used 10 years from now as an example.
She said at that age (35) she would have 2 kids and she probably will not want to do or be able to do the things she wants to do now. Also, how even if we drop the kids at my parents for a week, as a parent she will still be thinking about them so not really worry free.
Like her cousin that is 24 and due this July, my wife feels her life is technically "over" because it will be all about the kids from now on.
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sil
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Post by sil on Mar 30, 2011 14:13:40 GMT -5
Like her cousin that is 24 and due this July, my wife feels her life is technically "over" because it will be all about the kids from now on. LOL - her cousin will only be 42 when the baby is off to college. I suspect she still has some good years ahead of her
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gawgagranny
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Post by gawgagranny on Mar 30, 2011 14:39:42 GMT -5
Cawiau, a word of advice from someone old enough to be your mother--be sure to use reliable birth control until you are absolutely sure that she wants to have kids!!! From where I sit, it sounds like she is at least a bit ambivalent on the subject, to say the least!
And yes, for a lot of years it IS all about your kids once you choose to become parents....but that phase doesn't last forever! Trust me, there is life after children!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 17:02:35 GMT -5
Cawiau, a word of advice from someone old enough to be your mother--be sure to use reliable birth control until you are absolutely sure that she wants to have kids!!! From where I sit, it sounds like she is at least a bit ambivalent on the subject, to say the least! And yes, for a lot of years it IS all about your kids once you choose to become parents....but that phase doesn't last forever! Trust me, there is life after children! Don't worry, we are. Kids are not on the map for another 2-3 years at least. That is where we have a disconnect: I want us to build a solid financial foundation now so it allows more flexibility and options later on while my wife feel what is the purpose since she might not get to enjoy it later on. She is more about living now, pack up the bags and go to Mexico for the weekend just because we feel like it. Ex: I showed her our numbers last night and if we were to stay the course, not adding another penny to the current amount we are savings every year we should have $2 millions by the time we are 55. Her response: why do I care or need so much? I will probably be dead by 55.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 18:56:35 GMT -5
The other things that we still argue about: - she feels it's ok to have no savings at our age - to have to ask parents for financial help - have no retirement savings - and just blow thru all our income
I have to tell her that none of that is ok and not "normal" in my books. I "need" to save for retirement, no if nor buts and I refuse to spend every dollar I or we make every year.
I am trying to get out of the mess we are in, keep our expenses low and increase our savings, and try our best to get to a point where we could live of one income.
I think the peace of mind and financial stability will be worth the sacrifice.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2011 19:01:12 GMT -5
ZOMG, cawiau. Nothing against your wife, but wow.
Does she want to, for example, stay home for a few months when you guys have your first baby? How does she expect to make that happen if you guys are blowing through a double income on a regular basis? What does she think is going to happen if one of you guys lose your jobs? (I guess that would come under the second item on your list.)
I really feel for you, it is going to be damn near impossible to change that basic mentality. I think all you can do is stand your ground until the day inevitably comes when she has reason to be glad you did.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 19:06:35 GMT -5
Sounds like she doesn't understand the power of compounding. I still think taking FPU with her would be worth its weight in gold. She won't listen to you, but maybe she'll listen to an unbiased third party.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 21:24:54 GMT -5
ZOMG, cawiau. Nothing against your wife, but wow. Does she want to, for example, stay home for a few months when you guys have your first baby? How does she expect to make that happen if you guys are blowing through a double income on a regular basis? What does she think is going to happen if one of you guys lose your jobs? (I guess that would come under the second item on your list.) I really feel for you, it is going to be damn near impossible to change that basic mentality. I think all you can do is stand your ground until the day inevitably comes when she has reason to be glad you did. It's ok, sometimes I go wow, wow wow also. For a smart woman sometimes she just surprises me when it comes to finances. She says she understands the importance of savings, but she is unwilling to sacrifice some of today for that. She wants to live NOW, TODAY because she might die tomorrow or kids will come soon and it will be all about the kids and we somewhat will magically disappear in the background. I don't know about her, but I plan to live and kids are none, life is not over till I am dead. So I do plan to keep on vacationing, taking my wife on trips with and without the kids, and do couple things. I want a balance, live today while saving. Instead of enjoying today and waking up in my 40's (like many stories in the news) and realize I haven't saved anything for retirement. I hope I am still alive (knock on wood) the day she wakes up and realize that the savings did come in handy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 22:07:54 GMT -5
The funny thing is that you appreciate having money so much more when you have kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 22:18:05 GMT -5
The funny thing is that you appreciate having money so much more when you have kids. It seems my wife would rather have the experiences and memories So we are working on a middle ground, I handle the savings/retirement accounts and we try to travel 1-3 times a year. This year we are keeping it local (DC, Maine, and maybe Montreal, QC / Las Vegas NV) and next year Europe if all the planning pans out well.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Mar 30, 2011 23:15:51 GMT -5
She wants to live NOW, TODAY because she might die tomorrow or kids will come soon and it will be all about the kids and we somewhat will magically disappear in the background. What's more likely, that she'll live tomorrow or die? Someone who plans for the more unlikely scenario needs to have their mentality adjusted. As far as the kids, it sounds like she's not ready to have children yet. So assure her that you can wait to have kids until she's ready (if that's how you feel), and she can take her time having fun over time rather than trying to squeeze it all into right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 23:31:49 GMT -5
As far as the kids, it sounds like she's not ready to have children yet. So assure her that you can wait to have kids until she's ready (if that's how you feel), and she can take her time having fun over time rather than trying to squeeze it all into right now. I told her I could wait... We've know each other since we were 17, this may will be 8 years since we've been together as a couple and August will celebrate 3 years wedding anniversary. I won't lie, I do want to be a father, but I also understand that we are currently not in a financial place to have a child. Lately she has been the one pushing the issue about how she sees it in my eyes that I want a child, or how I am with kids that I would be a great dad, etc. Yes I do want to be a dad, one day. But that day is not today nor 2 years because I am not at the point yet where I feel I am ready financially to have a kid. I told her to give me 3 years, in 3 years we will revisit the possibility.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 31, 2011 7:27:21 GMT -5
The funny thing is that you appreciate having money so much more when you have kids. That is SO true. Especially when something happens to your plan of having family being your dcp and your suddenly realize that on top of the kid stuff, you need to spend X on child care instead of Y.
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on Mar 31, 2011 8:05:20 GMT -5
I've got an iPod Touch
Ditto for the Touch. I really wanted something that would give me access to my work schedule and the Touch will sync with my Outlook calendar. It's a nice music player also, I have a few apps but not much.
I've always been more of a saver than spender. A good portion of my paycheck goes off into my company's saving plan and my 401k and I end up transferring more of my remaining paycheck into investments. If I want something I'll typically just buy it. Granted, my credit card bills are more than I would like to see.
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Post by pig on Mar 31, 2011 8:20:44 GMT -5
Caw, I seldom post in YM anymore but your situation struck a chord with me. So I feel compelled to tell you what I have learned. Most people on YM fall to an extreme that is not normal as far as thinking. There is a happy medium and Archie gave the best advice due to it's intentional vagueness. You realize something, now what you do about it should be what is best for you and your family and their goals. First, let me say that I did not even have a retirement account until I was in my early thirties (I was in school for about 10 years and the military). I'm ahead of replacing 100% of my income in retirement now. I do not scrimp, I do not sacrifice. The sayings live while you're young and enjoy it while you can are just as valid as a penny saved yada yada. They didn't come out of thin air and they didn't become so popular by chance. You hear people saying "Oh I save 50% of my income" like it's something to be touted The ONLY reason I could possibly think of to save that much of your income is if you want to leave a substantial sum to your heirs. Well, there is a good chance they will just squander it anyway. Do they think they will be para sailing in the Sechyelles......not likely unless they want to break a hip. You see a mentality here on YM that "oh I take care of myself" or "it won't happen to me" just like a teenager. Facts are facts: "Americans age 65 and older have more than a 75 percent chance of needing some help with daily activities. Actions that may have once been relatively simple—like getting dressed, cooking, cleaning or getting to the store—are often insurmountable due to chronic illness, accidents, cognitive impairment or disability. " Now is a good time to make a rough projection of what you'll need in retirement. No, your guess will probably be way way off as life is so unpredictable but if doesn't hurt to do. You could try and define what you'll want to do in retirement but you will not be the same person in twenty much less forty years. Pick how much percent of your salary you would feel comfortable with and run with it, be it 80% or 300%. Of course if you want to retire early, that's another matter. I happen to love what I do and would work until they make me leave. Long story short, your savings only need match your goals. On children. Wait only until you're emotionally ready. Do not think finances. I say this based on your situation from what you've written. You are not stupid, gainfully employed and have a stable relationship. I'm not talking about some unemployed teenage couple. If you're emotionally ready there is no reason to wait. You will find the money in your budget and you may not get a chance if you wait too long. Having a child is as cheap or as expensive as you want to make it. The exception is day care if you'll be using it, make sure that is plausible in your budget. When we were contemplating our first child I was like let's wait until we make more. She got fed up with that excuse and said we're going to do it. We did and we were more than fine. I'm so glad I listened to her because when we got around for trying for the next it was not possible. Won't happen to me you say? "According to the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth by the CDC, infertility affects about 12 percent of the reproductive-age population. In the United States, this includes 7.3 million women and their partners." That's everyone from teenagers up. That number goes up fairly fast with age. Having or not having children is a huge deal. You don't want to be 20 years from now and think what if? There is nothing in this world to describe the feeling of having your own child. It was the most emotionally special moment of my life. Does your world end when you have children? Yes and no. You're world as you know it does but it will change and substantially. You can't just pick up and go out to dinner or anywhere without advanced planning for care. The crying the lost sleep and all that. I will tell you this though, there is no single more rewarding thing you'll ever do. How many people have you talked to that would say "Yeah I wish I hadn't had my kid and an extra million in the bank"? No one that I know of. Know that it is NORMAL for couple to argue about everything you two are. The important thing is if you are able to compromise your and her goals to make them BOTH of yours. She does have some valid points and so do you. If you can come up with a solid sensible compromise that you BOTH can live with that's what counts. Good luck. I enjoy reading your posts!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 31, 2011 8:34:41 GMT -5
It's ok, sometimes I go wow, wow wow also. For a smart woman sometimes she just surprises me when it comes to finances.
She says she understands the importance of savings, but she is unwilling to sacrifice some of today for that. She wants to live NOW, TODAY because she might die tomorrow or kids will come soon and it will be all about the kids and we somewhat will magically disappear in the background.
I don't know about her, but I plan to live and kids are none, life is not over till I am dead. So I do plan to keep on vacationing, taking my wife on trips with and without the kids, and do couple things.
I hope I'm not prying, but have you guys lost someone close to you recently? Because I can easily see that mentality coming out of "well, so-and-so died at 33 and she never even got to do x, y and z."
My DF's mother just died (just short of 55) and it seems to have had the opposite effect on DF - he seems to be all the more determined to get his stuff together and have the life she would have wanted for him, not to mention being prepared to provide for his family when the need arises (which it does on a fairly regular basis).
In any case... life is so much easier with money. It sounds crass but almost no terrible situation in life cannot be at least mitigated with sufficient resources. She is lucky to have someone who realizes this. I mean, her parents might not always be around to help you guys out of things.
I have a friend who has a very similar mentality to her. She figures she could die next year, so why not take out a loan for that dream vacation when she can barely cover her bills? I do hope that she really wants kids because I think you will make a great dad (and I'm sure she'll be a great mom, provided kids are something she really wants).
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