Marrying Into Debts

[Shooby]

  It seems more and more young people have a lot of student debt or other loans.  If you were looking to marry now, would that be a potential issue or would just assume the  debt as part of the deal?

[busymom]

Maybe swamp would want to comment here, but I was under the impression that if you marry, & divorce later, that you keep your own student loan debt?.  I have noticed that, for the most part, DD's generation IS waiting longer to get married.  Maybe heavy debt load is the reason they're waiting?     For me personally, I wouldn't be in any hurry to marry ANYONE with a lot of debt to pay off.

[swamp]

I married into $60k of student loans. They also came with high earning potential. It was a good investment

[steph08]

It depends on the kind of debt. $30k in student loans - fine (depending on job, earning potential). $30k in credit cards - no, though depends on reason (maybe medical expenses, etc.)

My DH had about $3k in CC debt when we married (racked up most of it while we were dating ). Then he went back to school and racked up $30k in student loan debt that I'm still paying off. 

Eh, I got a decent DH and two awesome kids out of the deal, so I can't complain.

[Deleted]

As others have said depends on the earnings potential, marriage is a business arrangement more than anything.

[Deleted]

It's different if you're in your 20's than your 40's.  My first husband had debt.  He owed a crap ton to the IRS and some student loans.  I married him anyhow and crafted a beautiful offer in compromise to the IRS and had most of it forgiven.  Second time around I was 38.  Fiance' had $1500 in student loans and I asked that he have them paid off before the wedding, which he did.  I wasn't going to do student or consumer loan debt at that stage of the game.

I can't imagine a world where I'd marry again, but if I did, no I would not marry someone in debt, unless it was a situation where he had a bunch of rental properties with mortgages or something. 

[NastyWoman]

Nov 30, 2017 21:47:52 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's different if you're in your 20's than your 40's.  My first husband had debt.  He owed a crap ton to the IRS and some student loans.  I married him anyhow and crafted a beautiful offer in compromise to the IRS and had most of it forgiven.  Second time around I was 38.  Fiance' had $1500 in student loans and I asked that he have them paid off before the wedding, which he did.  I wasn't going to do student or consumer loan debt at that stage of the game.

I can't imagine a world where I'd marry again, but if I did, no I would not marry someone in debt, unless it was a situation where he had a bunch of rental properties with mortgages or something. 

 wouldn't have bothered me a bit if xH would have had student loans when we married (we didn't since uni was free at the time). We would have paid it of asap and moved on. At this time in my life I won't even consider remarrying, nor have an exclusive relationship with someone in debt

[Opti]

Nov 30, 2017 21:47:52 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's different if you're in your 20's than your 40's.  My first husband had debt.  He owed a crap ton to the IRS and some student loans.  I married him anyhow and crafted a beautiful offer in compromise to the IRS and had most of it forgiven.  Second time around I was 38.  Fiance' had $1500 in student loans and I asked that he have them paid off before the wedding, which he did.  I wasn't going to do student or consumer loan debt at that stage of the game.

I can't imagine a world where I'd marry again, but if I did, no I would not marry someone in debt, unless it was a situation where he had a bunch of rental properties with mortgages or something. 

Woo Hoo! Husband #3 real estate mogul for MPL.  ..... Just kidding unless you want it to be true.

[hoops902]

My wife works a front-line $35k/year job. I probably wouldn't have married her if she'd come with 60k in student loan debt and 20k in CC debt or something. If she had the same debt and was a doctor, then yes I would have. I'm not really a believer in the "soul mate" idea...I think I could probably be happy in life with any number of people...why not find one who isn't going to have my financial life crushed by the weight of their debt?

I feel like right now I might be opposite of MPL a bit. In my 20's...the less debt the better. I was fine, but not wealthy or anything. Debt payments every month would have felt like a huge weight. If I were divorced now and looking again, I could put up with more debt from a partner (younger partner in particular, debt is ok but I don't want someone who manages finances poorly in their 40s). I wouldn't be nearly as bothered though now that I'm 37 if I was dating someone 30 with some student loan debt. I'd decide if I was interested enough to marry them and just pay it off...I didn't have the choice to "just pay it off" when I was younger...it would have been an anchor at that point.

[simser]

I'm dating a guy right now who has casually mentioned "maxed out credit cards". Apparently he's trying to pay them off. I have no debt other than a very tiny mortgage (that I could pay off tomorrow with spare cash). We haven't really seriously discussed money though.

That being said, he's amazing and wonderful and unique in a way that really meshes with me. If he's willing to address the debt and talk about finances honestly together, I'd marry him.

But I have a rule for money in marriage. There's only two options. Either I deal with it or WE deal with it. "You" will not be handling all the finances. I call it "playing to strengths".

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2017 22:48:07 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 30, 2017 21:47:52 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It's different if you're in your 20's than your 40's.  My first husband had debt.  He owed a crap ton to the IRS and some student loans.  I married him anyhow and crafted a beautiful offer in compromise to the IRS and had most of it forgiven.  Second time around I was 38.  Fiance' had $1500 in student loans and I asked that he have them paid off before the wedding, which he did.  I wasn't going to do student or consumer loan debt at that stage of the game.

I can't imagine a world where I'd marry again, but if I did, no I would not marry someone in debt, unless it was a situation where he had a bunch of rental properties with mortgages or something. 

Woo Hoo! Husband #3 real estate mogul for MPL.  ..... Just kidding unless you want it to be true.

I think it's been pretty clearly established that my man picker is broken.  

(and seriously, why does YM keep putting frownie faces on my posts!)
 

[Miss Tequila]

I will never support a man nor will take on his debt

[tallguy]

I can't imagine getting married again at this point, but no way would I marry someone with a lot of debt.  Or probably even a little debt.  By this age one should really have their life under control, and if they don't they should work on that first.  I might let someone move in, and they would have to contribute something (call it rent if you want) but I'm not going to just carry someone now.  Too far along for that.

[Opti]

I'm living a hard core life, so its not as stable as what TG and Miss T have lived from what I can tell. I do hope that I can conclude my BK/IRS payments in 2018 but I am so over thinking I am not worthy simply because I am 57 and have had more jobs and careers than most here my age and older than me.

I have less than $400 left to pay the IRS, but I am doing it on the slow plan because the car is more important, my rent is more important, and my health is more important. than paying the IRS quickly. I've learned they are even crueler than credit card companies when you can't pay them quickly. I had one year of working an extra shifts I could, giving up sleep, eating timely, my health, only to have the entire year's efforts basically wiped out by IRS fees. If you don't live someone else's reality, what you believe to be true may be nowhere close. I've learned way too much and soon I hope to share it with the judgmental world and also those I hope who are willing to hear how bad it really is for people like me. Not for all the housekeepers that lose employment because DT has upped the amount of H1 Visas for foreign help there, but all the older Americans who could do those jobs we supposedly need H1B and similar Visas for. The problem is in this life of immediacy, no one, not even the govt most times is willing to retrain Americans for the jobs of the moment when they can import someone from India, Israel, or other places cheaper. Or outsource to the same. A few years ago various IT hotspots included India as you might expect but also Ireland, Israel, and others.

FWIW, I'm not asking anyone here to marry me. In my RL not sure if I have someone who might possibly appreciate how magnificent I've become or not. But I am very much like the lead in the movie Under the Tuscan Sun. Which I just watched a few scenes from, because I decided I wanted to depress myself a bit. <To be deleted later this morning? >

[Opti]

Nov 30, 2017 23:28:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Nov 30, 2017 22:48:07 GMT -5 Opti said:

Woo Hoo! Husband #3 real estate mogul for MPL.  ..... Just kidding unless you want it to be true.

I think it's been pretty clearly established that my man picker is broken.   [img alt="" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" class="smile"]

(and seriously, why does YM keep putting frownie faces on my posts!)
 

MPL, you can either keep going until you get it more right, or give up. I plan to live to at least 100, so for the most part I try to remember I haven't given up yet. I currently want the garage owner in part because he comes with what should be at least a 6 figure income every year and really cool cars come visit too. The owner is very cool but 25 years younger and I think matches me very well, but in the earnest 30s, so hard to say where his head's really at. (I think he and I would make a great team. He's very smart.)

And the universe IMO obviously brought him to me as my car & I have been coming there years before D the former owner decided it was time to sell and travel. (That's my story and I'm sticking with it!) G lets me know things about the town the garage is in that I never knew. Its an old rural town, quite wealthy, settled by German immigrants. The oldest Lutheran church in NJ is right down the street from this village garage. I swapped shifts for this coming Sunday so I could attend one morning service and check it out. Hopefully I'll be well enough to do so and the weather will cooperate.

Crap, time to eat and dial down my anxiety.  I do too much stream of consciousness when sick and very stressed.

[Opti]

Nov 30, 2017 23:27:45 GMT -5 simser said:

I'm dating a guy right now who has casually mentioned "maxed out credit cards". Apparently he's trying to pay them off. I have no debt other than a very tiny mortgage (that I could pay off tomorrow with spare cash). We haven't really seriously discussed money though.

That being said, he's amazing and wonderful and unique in a way that really meshes with me. If he's willing to address the debt and talk about finances honestly together, I'd marry him.

But I have a rule for money in marriage. There's only two options. Either I deal with it or WE deal with it. "You" will not be handling all the finances. [img src="http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/smile.gif" alt="" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png" class="smile"] I call it "playing to strengths".

Very wise. My almost second husband kind of sucked at personal finances. That worried me a great deal as I knew I'd need to manage most of everything just to keep things stable. Years later, after we did not get engaged, did not get married, I did regret throwing the man out of my life with that issue, forgetting the strengths we had as a team.

I believe in playing to one's strengths and fixing one's weaknesses.

[swasat]

Dec 1, 2017 4:49:20 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 30, 2017 23:28:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I think it's been pretty clearly established that my man picker is broken.   [img alt="" src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" class="smile"]

(and seriously, why does YM keep putting frownie faces on my posts!)
 

MPL, you can either keep going until you get it more right, or give up. I plan to live to at least 100, so for the most part I try to remember I haven't given up yet. I currently want the garage owner in part because he comes with what should be at least a 6 figure income every year and really cool cars come visit too. The owner is very cool but 25 years younger and I think matches me very well, but in the earnest 30s, so hard to say where his head's really at. (I think he and I would make a great team. He's very smart.)

And the universe IMO obviously brought him to me as my car & I have been coming there years before D the former owner decided it was time to sell and travel. (That's my story and I'm sticking with it!) G lets me know things about the town the garage is in that I never knew. Its an old rural town, quite wealthy, settled by German immigrants. The oldest Lutheran church in NJ is right down the street from this village garage. I swapped shifts for this coming Sunday so I could attend one morning service and check it out. Hopefully I'll be well enough to do so and the weather will cooperate.

Crap, time to eat and dial down my anxiety.  I do too much stream of consciousness when sick and very stressed.

Good Lord.....

Words fail me

[swasat]

I would marry a person with debt, assuming it was the "good" or "life happens" debt.

Student loans for a professional degree. No problem with me! SLs for a degree in basket weaving? No way!

Medical bills and CC debt due to life emergencies -I'm fine with that. But huge CC debt to finance fancy lifestyle? No way !

Like most things in life there is not a straight answer. It's very context and phase-in-life dependent. More than anything the attitude of the person in dealing with the debt is what would matter to me the most, more than the debt amount itself.

[Shooby]

DH and I both had some student loan debt.  But, at the time it wasn't a crushing or ridiculous amount like it seems to be now.  However, my dad ended up paying off my debt before I got married and so we just had DH's. We paid it for years, then when we got more established, we just wrote out a check to be done with it.

[Shooby]

  I think the amount of debt in relation to earnings potential is important.  I would expect someone who is a pharmacist or doctor, etc to have a lot of debt.  If someone has a much lower paying job, then that is going to be a lot tougher.

[wvugurl26]

It depends on what it's from. I have student loans and a car loan. DH has student loans and mortgage. What it's from matters and being transparent about it.

[tractor]

The only way I would be remarrying would be under a “until death do us part” scenario, at which time I would be debt free and cash heavy. However, I do worry about my kids.

It’s likely that they will marry someone who also has a college degree and the debt that goes along with it. Even with modest student loan debt ($50,000?), combined they could easily start out with $100,000+ in debt, before they ever tried to consider a house. That’s a big burden to overcome (and a lot of added stress into a new marriage).

[giramomma]

Yeah. It all depends.

I think it's not a one size fits all answer.

Even if I were 20 years younger, not having any debt would still be important to me. I'm not a risk taker, and I'd still want the flexibility of being able to live off one income during child rearing years and taking care of parents years. The only way I'd move on this is if I was wired to be a different person. I'm assuming I'm still the same person..and these things are really non-negotiable for me.

I also need to marry a saver. I'm too damn lazy to argue about money or retrain/educate/whatever you want to call it another adult about money. Love's not enough for me to overcome that.

So..assuming I'd ever find someone that is a saver, is rather risk adverse, and is OK with living on one income..then I could maybe see taking on some level of debt IF there was a plan to pay it off quickly (delaying immediate gratification, working second jobs.)

If DH and I divorce...I'm not interested in partnering up again. We're not talking marriage...I really don't want another man in my life.  I can get my emotional needs met through work and other outlets. And having a screw buddy in your 60s or 70s  just seems so wrong. (But, who knows, that's through my 42 year old lens..my 70 year old self may think otherwise if it ever comes to that)

[gs11rmb]

Opti - are you ok?  I know you haven't been very well and I hope you feel better soon.

I promise I'm not trying to be snarky and I'm not making digs at you but your posts on this thread waver between incomprehensible and delusional.

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2017 23:19:58 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

My wife works a front-line $35k/year job. I probably wouldn't have married her if she'd come with 60k in student loan debt and 20k in CC debt or something. If she had the same debt and was a doctor, then yes I would have. 

I had a coworker at one job whose wife brought a substantial amount of debt from getting her MD degree into the marriage. Then she decided to be a SAHM.

DS knew from the start he wanted someone who would be a FT mother.  I was worried that he'd find someone with a ton of student loans, but DDIL went to a 2-year business college and had minimal loans.  I don't know how much- not my business.  I was relieved, though.  Oh, yeah- she also had a loan on her Toyota SUV.  She worked at the dealership so I hope she got a better deal than most.  The loan was at 2% and DS wanted to pay it off by borrowing from his 401(k).  I talked him out of it!

Like Tallguy, I'm at an age (64) when I would expect a potential partner to have minimal debt other than maybe a mortgage.  To me, heavy credit card debt would be a sign of someone whose finances are out of control (like my Ex- don't want that again).  If SS is attaching their payments for unpaid student loans (yes, they do that), that would be a dealbreaker, too.  It would likely mean I'd end up paying for his LTC if we married and he needed it.  I'd love to have another good man in my life, but the more I think about what I want, the pickier I get.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

DH had zero debt when we got married which by the standards we're using for this thread makes him a good candidate.   He is AWFUL with money.  Like so awful with money I ended up taking his debit card away from him for a year and put him on a cash only diet that I controlled.

Being dead broke all the time is just as bad as carrying debt around.    I love DH with all my heart but it has been a serious uphill battle to turn him into a functioning adult when it comes to money.   At times it has bred a lot of resentment.  We'll have been married 10 years next August as it is just now that we are coming together as a team rather than me dragging him along beside me.

I don't ever plan on remarrying if something happened to DH, but if I did I would pick someone with similar views as mine from the start.  It's exhausting to try to find a middle ground between two extremes and I have no desire to break in a new husband.

Overall financial well being and knowledge is more important to me than no debt.  If they can show they have been faithfully paying it back, have a long term plan for paying it off and are able to keep the ship afloat while doing so I would be fine with that depending on what numbers we're talking about.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2017 8:50:05 GMT -5 tractor said:

The only way I would be remarrying would be under a “until death do us part” scenario, at which time I would be debt free and cash heavy. However, I do worry about my kids.

It’s likely that they will marry someone who also has a college degree and the debt that goes along with it. Even with modest student loan debt ($50,000?), combined they could easily start out with $100,000+ in debt, before they ever tried to consider a house. That’s a big burden to overcome (and a lot of added stress into a new marriage).

I do worry about my kids marrying into debt.  I'm planning on getting them through college without any personally, but that doesn't mean they won't marry someone that borrowed 100% for a private school to get a degree in elementary ed.     They could easily still be stuck with 100K of debt with never having borrowed a dime themselves. 

[Shooby]

Dec 1, 2017 9:24:12 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Dec 1, 2017 8:50:05 GMT -5 tractor said:

The only way I would be remarrying would be under a “until death do us part” scenario, at which time I would be debt free and cash heavy. However, I do worry about my kids.

It’s likely that they will marry someone who also has a college degree and the debt that goes along with it. Even with modest student loan debt ($50,000?), combined they could easily start out with $100,000+ in debt, before they ever tried to consider a house. That’s a big burden to overcome (and a lot of added stress into a new marriage).

I do worry about my kids marrying into debt.  I'm planning on getting them through college without any personally, but that doesn't mean they won't marry someone that borrowed 100% for a private school to get a degree in elementary ed.     They could easily still be stuck with 100K of debt with never having borrowed a dime themselves. 

Yes, that concerns me as well.  My sons have no debt.  But, their girlfriends do.  How much, i havent a clue. But, that is on them to deal with in life if they get married.

[Bonny]

Dec 1, 2017 9:24:11 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I don't ever plan on remarrying if something happened to DH, but if I did I would pick someone with similar views as mine from the start.  It's exhausting to try to find a middle ground between two extremes and I have no desire to break in a new husband.

I'd be more focused on net worth and ability to live within one's means at my stage of life (56).

I'm not going to financially support an able bodied person unless we're following my passion.

[Deleted]

For those saying they can't imagine ever remarrying (myself included), my Grandmother remarried at age 80 and that marriage lasted longer than both of mine combined!  She passed away just a week after he did.