So was there collusion between Trump campaign and Russia..

[dezii]

according to Watergate prosecutors the answer is Yes...proof of will be found on the e mails of three of the principals..

Difference today from the Watergate days is the computers...no longer do u need burglars and once Mueler and his investigators go through these e mails they will see the collusion..who involved? Stay tuned for the next part of the story.
----------------------------------
"There is definitive proof of whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia during the 2016 election — and it exists in the email inboxes of Jared Kushner, Stephen Miller, Hope Hicks and others.

That's what several former Watergate prosecutors believe, telling Newsweek that evidence of collaboration between the Kremlin and the president's top campaign aides could literally be at Special Counsel Robert Mueller's fingertips.

It just has to be uncovered. "The key difference between this and Watergate is … at the time, you certainly didn't have computers," said Nick Ackerman, one of the prosecutors who probed the 1972 break-in at the Democratic party's Watergate "
=================================
to read whole article click on link below

www.yahoo.com/news/m/f811a02f-3f6b-34f5-ae31-b5f5d2f16be9/ss_evidence-of-Trump-russia.html

[Phoenix84]

I guess we'll see what happens.  Anything that doesn't come from the senate committees investigating the matter or the Mueller investigation is suspect in my eyes, since no one else can really know.

One thing I'm still kind of confused on is what exact is alleged to have been broken, and what exactly is "collusion."  How is "collusion" defined? Obviously it isn't contact with foreign nationals as lots of people in Washington have contact with foreign nationals, so it has to be something else.

Another thing to keep in mind is even if Trump broke the law, that doesn't mean he'll be impeached.  After all, Bill Clinton committed perjury, and congress decided not to remove him from office.  I'm not sure where "collusion" falls in the lexicon of law as "better" or "worse" than perjury. 

[happyhoix]

Not too sure on the legal definition of collusion, either.

I don't think Trump will be impeached. A GOP congress won't impeach him. I think it would be more likely that the Mueller investigation uncovers something that might end up with criminal charges against Jared, Ivanka or Don Jr. Trump can pardon them for federal crimes but not for state crimes. I think he would resign as part of a deal to not go after his family - but he would phrase it like 'I'm leaving office to rescue my business, which has suffered enormously in my absence.'

I think this will end up like the whole Bengazi investigation did - the GOP kept trying to find evidence of criminal activity on Hillary's part and ended up going down a rabbit hole into whether or not she sent classified email on a private server. Mueller may have started out looking for evidence of Russian collusion and fallen into something else entirely - Manafort's in trouble for money laundering for the Russians, not collusion. Since Trump keeps insisting Muller can't look at any of his business deals prior to him being elected president, and knowing Trump's history of sometimes questionable business deals, I think there might Mueller might be uncovering something entirely different from collusion, but just as illegal.

Who knows, we'll have to wait and see. I keep expecting Mueller to go after Flynn for that 'kidnap this guy for me and I'll pay you 15 M' thing.

  

[Shooby]

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

PRIMARY, different from the national election. Get over it. Your guy won and we have to live with him destroying our country for a little while. Maybe 4 years. 

[dondub]

I would suggest shooby and others just wait for the results of Mueller's investigation before making any wild claims. Maybe they all end up in jail. Fine with me.

[thyme4change]

Fake dossier?

[dezii]

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

"......Ignore "........ok, will do.

[dezii]

Nov 14, 2017 20:48:58 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

PRIMARY, different from the national election. Get over it. Your guy won and we have to live with him destroying our country for a little while. Maybe 4 years. 

about three left I think..

[weltschmerz]

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

"Clinton!.....Clinton!.....Clinton!.....Clinton!....Clinton!"

[happyhoix]

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

Hillary is in upstate New York walking her dog.

Trump had a chummy meeting with Putin last week, and complained to all the assembled reporters that his poor buddy pinkie promised that the whole Russian collusion thing was a big fat lie by lying Democrats.

One thing matters more than the other. We have a limited amount of national outrage, so I suggest we spend it on the thing that matters.

[Phoenix84]

Nov 14, 2017 18:54:47 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Not too sure on the legal definition of collusion, either.

I don't think Trump will be impeached. A GOP congress won't impeach him. I think it would be more likely that the Mueller investigation uncovers something that might end up with criminal charges against Jared, Ivanka or Don Jr. Trump can pardon them for federal crimes but not for state crimes. I think he would resign as part of a deal to not go after his family - but he would phrase it like 'I'm leaving office to rescue my business, which has suffered enormously in my absence.'

I think this will end up like the whole Bengazi investigation did - the GOP kept trying to find evidence of criminal activity on Hillary's part and ended up going down a rabbit hole into whether or not she sent classified email on a private server. Mueller may have started out looking for evidence of Russian collusion and fallen into something else entirely - Manafort's in trouble for money laundering for the Russians, not collusion. Since Trump keeps insisting Muller can't look at any of his business deals prior to him being elected president, and knowing Trump's history of sometimes questionable business deals, I think there might Mueller might be uncovering something entirely different from collusion, but just as illegal.

Who knows, we'll have to wait and see. I keep expecting Mueller to go after Flynn for that 'kidnap this guy for me and I'll pay you 15 M' thing.

  

I think that's one way it could play out, yes.  The only problem with that scenario is if Mueller starts looking into Trump's business dealings prior to the election, Mueller runs the risk of exceeding his mandate as special prosecutor.  The appointment by Ronstein was not a free pass into investigate everything related to Trump, but only for a very specific purpose. 

I agree, the likelihood of Trump actually getting impeached is pretty small.  Regardless if you think Trump did anything illegal or not, short of audiotaped or video taped evidence of Trump himself (or maybe his kids) in the act of doing something illegal I don't see any evidence being strong enough for impeachment to stick.

And strategically, I don't think the democrat leadership really want Trump gone.  They want a boogyman they can hold up to scare their base into going out to vote.  Just like the GOP and Obamacare, they're  hoping to ride anti Trump sentiment back into power.  Sooner or later, the anti Trump gravy train will run out of gas, and they'll need a more compelling argument to win the American public's vote, but for now, it seems to be an effective tactic. 

I honestly don't know how this will play out.  My guess is either the way you described, or Trump will be declared clean of collusion. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I could see Don Jr, Ivanka and Jared being knocked down a few pegs and being told to go sit in a corner.   They aren't official in any capacity so throwing them under the bus doesn't disrupt anything but would likely appease a decent chunk of the voting base.

It would be political suicide for the Republicans to impeach Trump.  Unless "Trumpgate" tapes pop up I don't think any of what has been uncovered so far is going to be enough to impeach.

I don't think people will riot in the streets if he were impeached, but I do think that if they tried to do it on what little they have now it would create a crack in our democracy.  Like it or not he was elected president according to our rules.   Impeaching him on flimsy stuff clears the way to suggest that if you don't like who's president simply dig long enough till you find something then toss him out.

I'm sure pretty much every person who has run and ever will run for President has SOMETHING in their closet.  You don't get that far in politics without burying a few bodies.   We don't want to set a pattern of wasting millions of tax dollars and time on trying to find every teeny weeny piece of dirt and then going thru the equally long and expensive impeachment process with every president we don't like.

They should be running our country first.  If he actually did do something that is in violation of his office then yes take the steps that need to be taken.  But for the love of God no more Benghazis.   At some point you have to say you've investigated someone enough and freaking move on.

[happyhoix]

Nov 15, 2017 12:58:52 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Nov 14, 2017 18:54:47 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Not too sure on the legal definition of collusion, either.

I don't think Trump will be impeached. A GOP congress won't impeach him. I think it would be more likely that the Mueller investigation uncovers something that might end up with criminal charges against Jared, Ivanka or Don Jr. Trump can pardon them for federal crimes but not for state crimes. I think he would resign as part of a deal to not go after his family - but he would phrase it like 'I'm leaving office to rescue my business, which has suffered enormously in my absence.'

I think this will end up like the whole Bengazi investigation did - the GOP kept trying to find evidence of criminal activity on Hillary's part and ended up going down a rabbit hole into whether or not she sent classified email on a private server. Mueller may have started out looking for evidence of Russian collusion and fallen into something else entirely - Manafort's in trouble for money laundering for the Russians, not collusion. Since Trump keeps insisting Muller can't look at any of his business deals prior to him being elected president, and knowing Trump's history of sometimes questionable business deals, I think there might Mueller might be uncovering something entirely different from collusion, but just as illegal.

Who knows, we'll have to wait and see. I keep expecting Mueller to go after Flynn for that 'kidnap this guy for me and I'll pay you 15 M' thing.

  

I think that's one way it could play out, yes.  The only problem with that scenario is if Mueller starts looking into Trump's business dealings prior to the election, Mueller runs the risk of exceeding his mandate as special prosecutor.  The appointment by Ronstein was not a free pass into investigate everything related to Trump, but only for a very specific purpose. 

I agree, the likelihood of Trump actually getting impeached is pretty small.  Regardless if you think Trump did anything illegal or not, short of audiotaped or video taped evidence of Trump himself (or maybe his kids) in the act of doing something illegal I don't see any evidence being strong enough for impeachment to stick.

And strategically, I don't think the democrat leadership really want Trump gone.  They want a boogyman they can hold up to scare their base into going out to vote.  Just like the GOP and Obamacare, they're  hoping to ride anti Trump sentiment back into power.  Sooner or later, the anti Trump gravy train will run out of gas, and they'll need a more compelling argument to win the American public's vote, but for now, it seems to be an effective tactic. 

I honestly don't know how this will play out.  My guess is either the way you described, or Trump will be declared clean of collusion. 

You're right, and just like it backfired on the GOP when they finally got rid of their bogeyman Obama and got control of congress and the POTUS and then suddenly had no plan to replace Obamacare ready to go, after 7 straight years of bitching about it. They should have had a reasonable plan stuck in their back pocket, ready to launch and go, rather than throwing out a series of Hail Mary half assed proposals that neither side liked much.

Dems need to organize themselves and start working on proposals for laws that are flexible enough they can be attractive to both sides of the aisle (so they have a chance of passing) and focus on the important things, like healthcare and taxes. If all they do is issue complaints about Trump we'll end up Trump-free, at some point but still uselessly spinning our collective wheels as we argue amongst ourselves about who is responsible for the whole fiasco.

[hurley1980]

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

I'm beginning to think you have a girl crush on Hillary, because you just will not stop talking about her!

[swamp]

Nov 15, 2017 12:41:29 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

Hillary is in upstate New York walking her dog.

Trump had a chummy meeting with Putin last week, and complained to all the assembled reporters that his poor buddy pinkie promised that the whole Russian collusion thing was a big fat lie by lying Democrats.

One thing matters more than the other. We have a limited amount of national outrage, so I suggest we spend it on the thing that matters.

I need to tell you that you are way off base and so wrong.

Westchester is not upstate New York 

[dezii]

Nov 15, 2017 12:58:52 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Nov 14, 2017 18:54:47 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Not too sure on the legal definition of collusion, either.

I don't think Trump will be impeached. A GOP congress won't impeach him. I think it would be more likely that the Mueller investigation uncovers something that might end up with criminal charges against Jared, Ivanka or Don Jr. Trump can pardon them for federal crimes but not for state crimes. I think he would resign as part of a deal to not go after his family - but he would phrase it like 'I'm leaving office to rescue my business, which has suffered enormously in my absence.'

I think this will end up like the whole Bengazi investigation did - the GOP kept trying to find evidence of criminal activity on Hillary's part and ended up going down a rabbit hole into whether or not she sent classified email on a private server. Mueller may have started out looking for evidence of Russian collusion and fallen into something else entirely - Manafort's in trouble for money laundering for the Russians, not collusion. Since Trump keeps insisting Muller can't look at any of his business deals prior to him being elected president, and knowing Trump's history of sometimes questionable business deals, I think there might Mueller might be uncovering something entirely different from collusion, but just as illegal.

Who knows, we'll have to wait and see. I keep expecting Mueller to go after Flynn for that 'kidnap this guy for me and I'll pay you 15 M' thing.

  

I think that's one way it could play out, yes.  The only problem with that scenario is if Mueller starts looking into Trump's business dealings prior to the election, Mueller runs the risk of exceeding his mandate as special prosecutor.  The appointment by Ronstein was not a free pass into investigate everything related to Trump, but only for a very specific purpose. 

I agree, the likelihood of Trump actually getting impeached is pretty small.  Regardless if you think Trump did anything illegal or not, short of audiotaped or video taped evidence of Trump himself (or maybe his kids) in the act of doing something illegal I don't see any evidence being strong enough for impeachment to stick.

And strategically, I don't think the democrat leadership really want Trump gone.  They want a boogyman they can hold up to scare their base into going out to vote.  Just like the GOP and Obamacare, they're  hoping to ride anti Trump sentiment back into power.  Sooner or later, the anti Trump gravy train will run out of gas, and they'll need a more compelling argument to win the American public's vote, but for now, it seems to be an effective tactic. 

I honestly don't know how this will play out.  My guess is either the way you described, or Trump will be declared clean of collusion. 

U make a good point...plus, while Pence is a better looking dude..his beliefs and desires are really off the wall for me...so ...plus with jobs, economy. stock market doing as they are..wages still flat...he does have a good line to preach at least now...later, we'll have to see..

[dezii]

Nov 15, 2017 13:09:57 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Nov 14, 2017 20:43:04 GMT -5 Shooby said:

But, carry on.  Ignore the fact of Hillary and the fake dossier.  Sure. Ignore the collusion of Hillary and the DNC actually rigging the primary.  Sure.

I'm beginning to think you have a girl crush on Hillary, because you just will not stop talking about her!

....... ..........

[Value Buy]

Nov 15, 2017 13:11:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 15, 2017 12:41:29 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Hillary is in upstate New York walking her dog.

Trump had a chummy meeting with Putin last week, and complained to all the assembled reporters that his poor buddy pinkie promised that the whole Russian collusion thing was a big fat lie by lying Democrats.

One thing matters more than the other. We have a limited amount of national outrage, so I suggest we spend it on the thing that matters.

I need to tell you that you are way off base and so wrong.

Westchester is not upstate New York 

And she is not in upstate NY walking her dog. She is across the country and even on the world stage, promoting her dog, errr, I mean her book!

[dezii]

Nov 15, 2017 19:40:37 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 15, 2017 13:11:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

I need to tell you that you are way off base and so wrong.

Westchester is not upstate New York 

And she is not in upstate NY walking her dog. She is across the country and even on the world stage, promoting her dog, errr, I mean her book!

A " best seller" too...heard biggest buyers are members of GOP ....they send in their butlers , maids...house cleaners to purchase it...

[Tennesseer]

Nov 15, 2017 19:40:37 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 15, 2017 13:11:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

I need to tell you that you are way off base and so wrong.

Westchester is not upstate New York 

And she is not in upstate NY walking her dog. She is across the country and even on the world stage, promoting her dog, errr, I mean her book!

Cureently #7 on the New York Times best seller's non-fiction list. Has been on the top 10 NYT's best seller's list for eight weeks.

NYT's Non-Fiction Best Sellers List

[dondub]

Links are always nice.

[Value Buy]

Nov 16, 2017 10:07:03 GMT -5 dezii said:

Nov 15, 2017 19:40:37 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

And she is not in upstate NY walking her dog. She is across the country and even on the world stage, promoting her dog, errr, I mean her book!

A " best seller" too...heard biggest buyers are members of GOP ....they send in their butlers , maids...house cleaners to purchase it...

"Alex, I will take a link from Dezi, for $250!"
I think you are mixing up Clinton's book with Donna Brazille's book. I imagine the pre-order numbers from Republicans is off the top!

[Value Buy]

Nov 16, 2017 13:51:01 GMT -5 dondub said:

Links are always nice.

If you were referencing Anne for links from post 21, they were imbedded in the article.

[happyhoix]

Nov 17, 2017 5:48:22 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Nov 16, 2017 13:51:01 GMT -5 dondub said:

Links are always nice.

If you were referencing Anne for links from post 21, they were imbedded in the article.

I clicked on the one about the DNC creating the dossier and it went to a black page.

It was actually a GOP rival who initially paid for the investigation, and then when that person bowed out of the race, they approached the Dems with the dossier.

Paying research firms for digging up dirt is not at all unusual in politics. It's slightly unusual that they were using an ex- spy Brit to do the digging, but Britain is an ally, so not an outrageous deviation. 

I don't know what the scandal is, here. If the dems hired the work done, it was legal, and most likely the ex-spy created a legitimate report, based on what his Russian sources said. The report is just 'alleged, ' however, until it's collaborated by other sources (which I'm sure Mueller is trying to doing.)

No scandal, not yet.

  

[dezii]

Supposedly the British publicist who contacted Donald JR  about a meeting...information on Hillery the father would find interesting is going to talk to Muellers committee...possible find out if there was a smoking gun tying the administration to Russia involvement in our election...or not.
-------------------------------
" British publicist who arranged Donald Trump Jr's meeting with Russian lawyer breaks silence on collusion claims


Rob Goldstone has agreed to be questioned by Special Counsel Robert Mueller about the meeting, which is at the heart of a probe into alleged collusion between Mr Trump presidential campaign ... "
================================================

www.yahoo.com/news/british-publicist-arranged-donald-Trump-103400351.html