Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Nov 5, 2017 16:29:31 GMT -5
Truly sorry for your brother, and your loss. Could you tell us when this occurred? Many people I know who were dying, received pain medication in their latter days to ease pain but I admit beyond five years ago, I cannot say this was done in a widespread manner. I'm sorry for your losses. I wonder if it matters where you are when treated? When I've had family members who were terminal, the docs didn't hesitate to give morphine while in the hospital. I can understand being more careful with meds that are going home with patients. The at-home nurses were very careful with the meds, locking them in the trunk of cars until needed. Then my brother passed. Nurses demeanor changed. All of a sudden, all his meds were on the table there for the taking. We were taken aback because we were first grieved then 2nd faced with proper disposal of meds. One was a nuclear med that the main nurse took away. This nurse said we will know if these are sold on the street. As if we didn't know the pills had markers imbedded. We did get them taken care of. After my surgery, I did have H. to help monitor my drug schedule. I am grateful for that, because in pain it's easy to double dose.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Nov 5, 2017 20:51:02 GMT -5
With mom, she called my sister to come when the pain was bad and my sister administered the morphine. It was in the refrigerator for anyone to use I guess. Dad only gave it to mom one time, very near the end.
Hospice was not present when mom passed. When they did come, all of the hospice medications were removed.
I still have the 30 vicodin I was prescribed after my surgery. I should find out where I can take them. I think it's the sheriff here. Pharmacy also said I could grind them up and throw them out with cat litter. Since that goes out in my weekly trash, that would be just as easy.
Pharmacy told me not to let people know I had vicodin in the house. Must have gotten a strange look on my face because I was told people will rob you if they know you have it.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Nov 5, 2017 20:55:19 GMT -5
TheOtherMe, I know someone on ProBoards who lost her aunt and uncle to murder over the drugs in their home. The aunt had cancer and there was all kinds of different pain meds in the house for her.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Nov 5, 2017 20:59:17 GMT -5
Wow! Think those 30 pills need to get out of my house in tomorrow's trash. The only person who knows they are here is my sister.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 5, 2017 23:52:21 GMT -5
Medical Marijuana people! Yeah.....unless you happen to be married to someone who gets drug tested regularly for their profession. Even though I live in a state where it is legal, even the hint of pot use (i.e. smell on his clothing) is an immediate firing. Smoke it outside / smoke it in a different room... the "contact high" is blown out of proportion. I have friends that smoke and I get tested regularly for work and they smoke in my presence... I don't get a positive test. One of my friends, her girlfriend smokes pot regularly in their apartment in her presence... she has yet to test positive for marijuana. And one of my test was the morning after hanging out with said friends in a crowded living room with 90% of them smoking. Pull yourself a chair on the balcony and smoke it up!!! Make sure to have food ready.... the munchies are no joke!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 10:01:41 GMT -5
Yes, the pendulum has swung the other way. It's unfortunate that opioids were over-prescribed in the first place. The doctors claim the pharma companies told them they weren't addictive. Heck, when I had dental implants placed 3 years ago I got a prescription for 25 Hydrocodone pills- with one refill! All I needed was a Tylenol and I carefully ripped up the prescription.
Fast forward to last year when DH had bad back pain after a fall- We had to drive to the doctor's office (he was, of course, in too much pain to drive), wait for them to write the prescription because we had to have it on paper, then wait at the pharmacy till it was filled. I sure as hell hope I never need them. With DH gone I don't have easy access to a "designated driver". I've also read that if you run out of pills on a Sunday and the pharmacies are closed well, too bad. You can't refill a day ahead of time.
My experience with hospice- yes, I had a Box of Stuff in the refrigerator and was eventually instructed to open it when DH had "terminal agitation"- trying to get out of bed when he was too weak and likely to fall. I started with milder stuff (Lorazepam) but the last night, after consulting with hospice nurses, I broke out the morphine. DH and I had actually had a conversation two days before in which he said he wouldn't mind being sedated to the point where he was oblivious because he was feeling pretty miserable. I never had to do that but wouldn't have hesitated to ask the hospice nurse what level of morphine to use. We had no intention of shortening or ending his life.
They didn't collect the remaining meds when DH died. Fortunately, a friend at church was going to Haiti with a team of medical people and was happy to accept any unexpired prescriptions. I blacked out identifying info on the label and gave them to him. I included over 100 Oxycodone tablets (DH had gotten prescriptions multiple times for back pain, taken a few and then stopped.)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 6, 2017 10:09:58 GMT -5
The opioid crisis is real. I am sorry for people in real pain, but doctors created a lot of addicts. My husband was careful not to become one in the months and months that he was on pain pills for his back. But it took a lot of effort on his part. No one tried to address the problem. It was easier to hand him a prescription. That doesn't mean he wasn't monitored. Every month he had to pee on a stick to make sure he wasn't selling them. DH wasn't even monitored. His doctor filled his scrip over the phone. DH constantly asked his doctor for assistance in navigating the system so we could get soemthing other than pain pills to deal with his arthritis but it was easier for the doctor to tell us sorry, here's another pain pill scrip in the meantime. Now they've gone the other direction, cutting people off and telling them tough titties. Leaving thousands of people without a way to manage their conditions. This should be completely unacceptable. They broke it, they should have to fix it. It's inexcusable the amount of money doctors charge to see you and then they do absolutely nothing to help you. We get charted $250 an office visit in exchange for an opioid and budding heroin crisis. Thanks American Health Care system.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 6, 2017 12:58:42 GMT -5
Have they done anything to prevent people from 'doctor shopping?'
You used to be able to go to 3 or 4 doctors, claiming different problems, and get Rx for each visit, then fill it at different pharmacies so they didn't have records of all the overlapping Rx's.
Back in the early 90's, I worked in a lab with a woman who was always on the phone attempting to get refills on pain meds from a variety of doctors (and even her dentist). She claimed she had to take 3 x the amount of pain meds due to a lot of drug use early I her life. It didn't occur to me at the time (probably didn't occur to a lot of us back then ) that you could be a drug addict on prescription drugs.
I had heard a while back they were trying to set up a national registry that could track how many pills someone was getting, even when they used multiple doctors and pharmacies. I don't know if they've done that yet.
And they need to go after the Rx companies who lied to the doctors about these current opioids not being addictive. They should be paying the drug treatment costs for all the people who went in for knee surgery and ended up an opioid addict.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 6, 2017 13:03:12 GMT -5
Many states now have databases that physicians are supposed to check before prescribing. They aren't all linked so you could probably go out of state still. It's a start but physicians have to use it in real time for it to make a difference. If they don't check it then it's useless.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 6, 2017 13:11:11 GMT -5
After reading this thread, I opened the medicine cabinet this morning (I open it every day, so not sure why this morning was different) and noticed my husband has a full bottle of Oxycodene from last year. I don't think he ever took any. I don't know why we even filled it - probably "just in case."
I am going to see if I can get rid if them tonight.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Nov 6, 2017 13:19:07 GMT -5
When stuff is prescribed to me I take note on how much I take and when and I mark this all down. When I know I'm finished with the pain meds, I return the remaining pills back to the hospital.
Few if any drugs can help me actually, even med dope I can't have. I'm just too darn sensitive to a lot of stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 13:51:26 GMT -5
And they need to go after the Rx companies who lied to the doctors about these current opioids not being addictive. They should be paying the drug treatment costs for all the people who went in for knee surgery and ended up an opioid addict.
Totally agree- and it actually does happen this way. The BBC has done several excellent podcasts on the opioid pain reliever epidemic in America and many of the sad stories start with someone getting a prescription for a HS athletic injury or dental work. Some people seem more susceptible to addiction; I know DH didn't like the side effects so stopped taking them as soon as he could, and I tried some of his stash only once when a dental abscess flared up while we were in Budapest. It was useless. (Fortunately the hotel concierge found me a good dental clinic where they spoke English.) Another sad consequence of the opioid abuse is that many people are finding heroin easier and cheaper to obtain so they become addicted to heroin instead. I kept some of DH's expired pills just in case but I'd be reluctant to use them unless it was something drastic.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 6, 2017 14:06:16 GMT -5
I got oxycodone when I got my wisdom teeth taken out as a teen. I took it on the dosage for the first full day following the operation and a little here and there for a few days afterward. I didn't realize they made me loopy so I took one before school. I was sent home after lunch (couldn't eat anyway). Days later I was getting headaches and normal OTC meds weren't working. So just in that little bit of time my body was addicted and showing withdrawal symptoms. I flushed the rest. Thank God I had good parents and I realized what was happening - otherwise who knows what might have happened.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 6, 2017 14:09:02 GMT -5
I got oxycodone when I got my wisdom teeth taken out as a teen. I took it on the dosage for the first full day following the operation and a little here and there for a few days afterward. I didn't realize they made me loopy so I took one before school. I was sent home after lunch (couldn't eat anyway). Days later I was getting headaches and normal OTC meds weren't working. So just in that little bit of time my body was addicted and showing withdrawal symptoms. I flushed the rest. Thank God I had good parents and I realized what was happening - otherwise who knows what might have happened. Please don't flush medications. It taints the water supply.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 6, 2017 14:11:25 GMT -5
After reading this thread, I opened the medicine cabinet this morning (I open it every day, so not sure why this morning was different) and noticed my husband has a full bottle of Oxycodene from last year. I don't think he ever took any. I don't know why we even filled it - probably "just in case." I am going to see if I can get rid if them tonight. Check with your local police station. I've found a lot of them have drop offs year round not just for the drug take back day which was last month. They want to get the stuff off the street. Otherwise oxy is one of several the FDA approves of flushing because they are especially harmful to those who they are not prescribed for.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Nov 6, 2017 14:23:34 GMT -5
Yeah.....unless you happen to be married to someone who gets drug tested regularly for their profession. Even though I live in a state where it is legal, even the hint of pot use (i.e. smell on his clothing) is an immediate firing. Smoke it outside / smoke it in a different room... the "contact high" is blown out of proportion. I have friends that smoke and I get tested regularly for work and they smoke in my presence... I don't get a positive test. One of my friends, her girlfriend smokes pot regularly in their apartment in her presence... she has yet to test positive for marijuana. And one of my test was the morning after hanging out with said friends in a crowded living room with 90% of them smoking. Pull yourself a chair on the balcony and smoke it up!!! Make sure to have food ready.... the munchies are no joke! They also make edibles some of which don't even have the THC. My friend's wife has been using some of those for anxiety. Regardless having those in the house isn't going to lead to someone who doesn't eat them smelling like marijuana or testing positive for it.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 6, 2017 14:35:56 GMT -5
Smoke it outside / smoke it in a different room... the "contact high" is blown out of proportion. I have friends that smoke and I get tested regularly for work and they smoke in my presence... I don't get a positive test. One of my friends, her girlfriend smokes pot regularly in their apartment in her presence... she has yet to test positive for marijuana. And one of my test was the morning after hanging out with said friends in a crowded living room with 90% of them smoking. Pull yourself a chair on the balcony and smoke it up!!! Make sure to have food ready.... the munchies are no joke! They also make edibles some of which don't even have the THC. My friend's wife has been using some of those for anxiety. Regardless having those in the house isn't going to lead to someone who doesn't eat them smelling like marijuana or testing positive for it. Oh yeah forgot about the edibles!!!! Good stuff! I miss Denver, Colorado ! 😞
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Nov 6, 2017 16:28:29 GMT -5
I don't think they are so worried about the person who was prescribed the pain pills getting addicted... I think they are worried about the people who will have access to the pills should the patient NOT take the pain pills.
I came home with a 7 day supply of pain pills and only took 2 (8 hours worth of pain relief) - they made me feel sick (queasy/headachy restless/uncomfortable) when they wore off... in my case ibuprophen taken regularly and on-time was enough to get me thru. I used the pain pills after I had to go for a short car ride on day 3 at home - and my innards sloshing around didn't feel all that great.
I had 40 left over pills. I wish there had been some way where I'd get 2 or 3 days of pain pills and then could have contacted the dr. if I wanted/needed the remaining (up to 7 days) of pills. The dr. was an email/phone call away and there's a pharmacy on just about every street corner in my area so sending someone out to pick up the prescription wouldn't have been an inconvenience. I was suppose to have someone staying with me after surgery for a 3 to 5 days anyway.
I know there's an old saying about how the Kitchen Sink Drain is the biggest consumer of coffee... I'm wondering if today the 'trash' is the biggest consumer of medications. I sent 40 pills to the landfill.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 6, 2017 16:30:28 GMT -5
I got oxycodone when I got my wisdom teeth taken out as a teen. I took it on the dosage for the first full day following the operation and a little here and there for a few days afterward. I didn't realize they made me loopy so I took one before school. I was sent home after lunch (couldn't eat anyway). Days later I was getting headaches and normal OTC meds weren't working. So just in that little bit of time my body was addicted and showing withdrawal symptoms. I flushed the rest. Thank God I had good parents and I realized what was happening - otherwise who knows what might have happened. Please don't flush medications. It taints the water supply. this was nearly 20 years ago. I don't think I've flushed anything since.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 6, 2017 17:19:26 GMT -5
I got oxycodone when I got my wisdom teeth taken out as a teen. I took it on the dosage for the first full day following the operation and a little here and there for a few days afterward. I didn't realize they made me loopy so I took one before school. I was sent home after lunch (couldn't eat anyway). Days later I was getting headaches and normal OTC meds weren't working. So just in that little bit of time my body was addicted and showing withdrawal symptoms. I flushed the rest. Thank God I had good parents and I realized what was happening - otherwise who knows what might have happened. Please don't flush medications. It taints the water supply. [br It does not taint the water supply. It kills off the bacteria used in the wastewater treatment process. Making it harder for WWTP operators to meet the effluent levels they are required to meet. But they still had to meet them or risk a fine.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 6, 2017 17:24:58 GMT -5
It isn't just the doctors. It is also the insurance and the pharmacy and it is applied to non-narcotic alternatives as well.
If DH needs a refill of his non-narcotic pain medication, he has to call the doctor 5 days in advance. The doctor calls the pharmacy, the pharmacy calls the insurance, the insurance says ok to the 30 day refill. The pharmacy says no, our policy is only 25 days. So, there are about 3 rounds of phone calls every month to get less than a months supply of this medicine (once again, non-narcotic, we aren't going back down the narcotic road because the physical withdrawal are he'll unless he has surgery again).
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 6, 2017 17:54:02 GMT -5
It isn't just the doctors. It is also the insurance and the pharmacy and it is applied to non-narcotic alternatives as well. If DH needs a refill of his non-narcotic pain medication, he has to call the doctor 5 days in advance. The doctor calls the pharmacy, the pharmacy calls the insurance, the insurance says ok to the 30 day refill. The pharmacy says no, our policy is only 25 days. So, there are about 3 rounds of phone calls every month to get less than a months supply of this medicine (once again, non-narcotic, we aren't going back down the narcotic road because the physical withdrawal are he'll unless he has surgery again). So imagine doing this madness when you are feeling like crap and don't have anyone doing the leg work for you. I guess I'm lucky in that despite my repeated use of narcotics, and sometimes at doses that are strong enough to kill someone, I've gotten myself off of them. As the pain diminishes, I start tapering off. I've not ever had any withdrawal symptoms, despite being on them almost continually for 6 months after my first 2 excisions. For narcotics, you need a paper prescriptions. Doctors cannot call them in. Also, from what I understand, they will no longer give any more than a 5 day supply. So if you are in the position where you need more than that, chances are you are in pretty bad shape and feel like crap so you get to jump through more hoops to feel just a little less like crap. Hopefully, you have someone who can haul you to the doctor's during business hours, and then to the pharmacy.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 6, 2017 17:55:18 GMT -5
Please don't flush medications. It taints the water supply. [br It does not taint the water supply. It kills off the bacteria used in the wastewater treatment process. Making it harder for WWTP operators to meet the effluent levels they are required to meet. But they still had to meet them or risk a fine. Narcotics kill off bacteria or are you talking about antibiotics. I have heard that antibiotics are an issue in wastewater treatment, not narcotics though.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 6, 2017 18:04:30 GMT -5
Have they done anything to prevent people from 'doctor shopping?'
You used to be able to go to 3 or 4 doctors, claiming different problems, and get Rx for each visit, then fill it at different pharmacies so they didn't have records of all the overlapping Rx's.
Back in the early 90's, I worked in a lab with a woman who was always on the phone attempting to get refills on pain meds from a variety of doctors (and even her dentist). She claimed she had to take 3 x the amount of pain meds due to a lot of drug use early I her life. It didn't occur to me at the time (probably didn't occur to a lot of us back then ) that you could be a drug addict on prescription drugs.
I had heard a while back they were trying to set up a national registry that could track how many pills someone was getting, even when they used multiple doctors and pharmacies. I don't know if they've done that yet.
And they need to go after the Rx companies who lied to the doctors about these current opioids not being addictive. They should be paying the drug treatment costs for all the people who went in for knee surgery and ended up an opioid addict.
This has been in existence since at least 2007. After one surgery, I was in KY and my surgery was in Nashville. About 3 weeks after surgery, I was running out of pain meds (rebuilding a pelvis is really painful). I had to go to my GP for a blood pressure check, so asked if she'd refill my script so I didn't have to try to get into the surgeon's office. She did. The pharmacy refused to fill the prescription, and my surgeon refused to write any more as he was the physician on record for that drug, they thought I was doctor shopping. It never dawned on me that that was what it was considered. The pharmacy ripped up the script my GP gave me, and refilled for the surgeon on record. I was just trying to make things easier for myself. OOPS!
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 6, 2017 18:11:34 GMT -5
I got oxycodone when I got my wisdom teeth taken out as a teen. I took it on the dosage for the first full day following the operation and a little here and there for a few days afterward. I didn't realize they made me loopy so I took one before school. I was sent home after lunch (couldn't eat anyway). Days later I was getting headaches and normal OTC meds weren't working. So just in that little bit of time my body was addicted and showing withdrawal symptoms. I flushed the rest. Thank God I had good parents and I realized what was happening - otherwise who knows what might have happened. Please don't flush medications. It taints the water supply. The FDA recommends it for narcotics.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Nov 6, 2017 18:18:34 GMT -5
Please don't flush medications. It taints the water supply. [br It does not taint the water supply. It kills off the bacteria used in the wastewater treatment process. Making it harder for WWTP operators to meet the effluent levels they are required to meet. But they still had to meet them or risk a fine. That's only antibiotics that might kill off the bacteria, but only at high amounts.
The problem is all the drugs that are not 'digested' in the sewer plants, and aren't tested for, as they aren't (or haven't been) recognized as waste water pollutants in the past. We figured out this was happening by doing broad tests for pretty much everything we could find in what was supposedly 'clean' water system like estuaries and finding startling amounts of things like hormones and steroids floating around out there. So we all end up getting 'extra' doses of these kinds of chemicals in our drinking water, because they pass through the sewer plants.
A lot of states are requiring pharma companies to do buy back programs, and then incinerate their drugs. Hospitals are already having to segregate their drugs for disposal, depending on the disposal method most acceptable to that kind of drug. I think there is a bill working it's way through the EPA pipeline, if it doesn't get killed by the current EPA head.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 6, 2017 18:21:17 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I filled a script for more than 5 days of Vicodin when my brother had PRK surgery last December.
I'm not seeing any consistency with this. And you can do a verbal order if it's an emergency situation followed up with a written order within 7 days. But the pharmacy has to allow it and it's just easier for them to deny it.
I see a whole lot of fear driven practices by professionals who do not understand the rules. And you can do electronic prescribing if the system meets DEA standards and has been subject to a third party audit.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Nov 6, 2017 18:35:16 GMT -5
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 6, 2017 18:46:23 GMT -5
I wonder if the laws don't get challenged? Because states are making stricter limits than the DEA who is in charge of all this. It's a horrible issue but there has to be a better way than saying no one needs more than a 5 day supply of painkillers. They could start by making it easier to get rid of them more than once a year. That takes care of the problem of them laying around after patients no longer need them.
And I don't see this doing much to stop true addicts. It's a horrible problem but this is a horribly misguided attempt to fix it while ignoring the core issues. It does nothing to educate doctors on proper prescribing, educate patients on addiction potential or provide treatment to addicts.
We've already said (at least my organization) that we can't arrest our way out of this problem. I'm not so sure you can legislate your way out either. Education is not cheap, fast or sexy but it's badly needed for narcotics. A blanket narcotics are bad you can't have more than 5 days rule does not fix this. I wish there was a magic fix because the devastation from narcotics in WV is real and it's going to last for generations.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 6, 2017 20:26:47 GMT -5
Wow, after DH died I just threw all his meds into the trash. There were definitely a lot of pain killers he filled just in case and rarely used. Uh oh.
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