Very delicate situation; possible animal abuse

[Ava]

I am not 100 percent sure I should post this. It's very serious and I don't want to give out too many details.

There is a young family living near me at the condo association.
The kids are little and the parents are very friendly.
They don't take care of their stuff; leaving bikes thrown in the lawn for weeks, toys everywhere.
Since the snow service was suspended last year, the father has been doing my driveway when it snows. He refuses to accept my money so I give them gift cards every now and then.

A few months ago I received a letter from the administration stating residents are not allowed to have pets anymore. My cat was grandfathered in because she was already here. They probably didn't receive the letter because they are renters. I have mentioned to them a couple of times letters I've received from the administration and they told me the landlord gets the letters, not them.

Today this young family brought home a huge dog. It's obvious they bought the dog because it is a pure breed. It's a puppy but it's enormous.
Since early morning until a few moments ago the poor animal was left in the balcony, which is small, by itself. It was barking non stop and obviously very distressed. My mom approached it to pet it and it started crying.
It's evident the dog was bought as some sort of toy for the kids.

I consider myself very tolerant. I've put up with their music, kids crying and playing at all hours, their leaving stuff all over my driveway, and I don't mind at all. The only time I knocked at their door to complain was when they were using the surround system.
But this is completely different.
If there is something I cannot tolerate is animal abuse and neglect.
I have no doubt in my mind this animal will be discarded as soon as they tire of it. In the meantime it will be kept outside, in a small balcony by itself, unless they want to play with it.

I put a call to the administration today. They never answer the phone. Instead they call you back.
In my message I said it was kind of urgent and I needed to talk to the manager.
Hopefully he'll call me tomorrow and I'll explain the situation. I feel horrible telling on them. I'm going to ask the manager not to reveal my identity to them, but he may do it anyway. It will turn this into a very awkward situation with people who live very close to me But I don't see any other way to stop this.

I wish I could explain the situation better. I know how this will end for this poor dog if someone doesn't interfere. I've seen this kind of scenario before. They are not bad neighbors, but they are exactly the sort of people who would use a dog as a toy, not take care of it, and then abandon it.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Cal, your local humane society and have them check it out.  I would keep track of the amount of time the dog spends on the balcony too.

[sarcasticgirl]

Is it possible they are just "dog sitting" (badly, mind you)?
Can't you just go speak to them? "Oh, did you get a new puppy?" Etc.

Also fwiw, just because it is a pure breed doesn't meant they bought the dog, it could easily have been an adoption or a rescue. My dog has akc papers and we adopted him, we didn't buy from a breeder.

[Ava]

Sept 21, 2017 16:38:35 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

Is it possible they are just "dog sitting" (badly, mind you)?
Can't you just go speak to them? "Oh, did you get a new puppy?" Etc.

Also fwiw, just because it is a pure breed doesn't meant they bought the dog, it could easily have been an adoption or a rescue. My dog has akc papers and we adopted him, we didn't buy from a breeder.

I don't want to say anything because they will know it's me when they get a complaint.

They may be babysitting but I doubt it because they came from out of state and nobody ever visits them.

And the dog is back in the balcony after all of 15 minutes in the house.
I want to see if they leave it outside overnight.
Winters here are very, very tough with cold nights and a lot of snow.
The condo units are relatively small. It's obvious they don't have the room or the inclination to keep the dog inside.

[Tennesseer]

The condo association should contact the owner of the condo and advise him/her no pets are allowed and his renter is not in compliance with condo rules.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Just report it, no need to tell them. They should not be dog owners or sitters.

[Deleted]

Please say something. Since the situation is obvious to anyone in the area, even those just passing by (large dog on small balcony barking for hours on end), there's no reason for them to suspect it was you who reported them.

I'm not a pet person but I hate it when people get one and then neglect it.

[hoops902]

Does it have food and water? If so, there may not be much in terms of "abuse" happening. You probably have a lot better shot at the condo association cracking down than animal control.

[raeoflyte]

Sept 22, 2017 8:34:35 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Does it have food and water? If so, there may not be much in terms of "abuse" happening. You probably have a lot better shot at the condo association cracking down than animal control.

What's described isn't ideal, but it also occurred for 1 day.  As long as the animal has food, water, and some kind of shelter from the elements this is not abuse or neglect.  

That doesn't mean that you should have to tolerate the dog barking on the patio, but the HOA and/or landlord are the correct people to handle that.  

[Ava]

It has food and water. They took it inside after eight last night. It's still abuse since its a small balcony, huge dog and the animal is obviously distressed. I'm still waiting for the management company to call me. They are not very responsible and it wouldn't surprise me if they don't return my call. I'll send them an email tonight and call again early on Monday.

[Ava]

It has food and water but it is exposed to the elements and confined to a very small space. Yesterday it was there for over twelve hours. To me that is at least neglect and probable abuse.

[grumpyhermit]

Sept 22, 2017 9:45:34 GMT -5 Ava said:

It has food and water. They took it inside after eight last night. It's still abuse since its a small balcony, huge dog and the animal is obviously distressed. I'm still waiting for the management company to call me. They are not very responsible and it wouldn't surprise me if they don't return my call. I'll send them an email tonight and call again early on Monday.

It's certainly neglectful, but in most states, probably wouldn't meet the criteria for abuse. Your management company is likely going to be the best source of resolution for this situation.

[TheOtherMe]

I know you care about the animal, but it does have food and water.  Around here, it takes much more than that to get someone charged with abuse and then the sentences are usually next to nothing.

However, they are violating condo rules and that is something different.

[Tiny]

Sept 22, 2017 9:48:02 GMT -5 Ava said:

It has food and water but it is exposed to the elements and confined to a very small space. Yesterday it was there for over twelve hours. To me that is at least neglect and probable abuse.

Is this a true balcony - like not at ground level? How many other units can see the balcony? How many other units can not see the balcony but will be able to HEAR the dog bark? How much poop and pee has the puppy already done on the balcony?

I suspect that other people living in your building are aware of the dog.... and if the dog is barking (especially in the am and pm hours) there will be anger and probably complaints.

The other thing is - the tenants are breaking the HOA rules - you said the new policy was 'no pets'. This is DEFINITELY an issue for the landlord/property manager and the HOA.

 

A nonstop barking dog becomes a "public nuicance" and most places with local government HAVE laws about those.

(and who's cleaning up after the dog I feel bad  for anyone BELOW the balcony the dog is on...   Big Dogs make really big poops and pees. 

[andi9899]

I would call. Especially if the dog seems stressed. A stressed out dog can be dangerous, especially a big one.

And that whole situation pisses me right on off! Macy's former owners did that and she finally had enough and bit their child. So then they returned her as if it were her fault. They took a sweet, rolly polly puppy and returned a skinny, skittish, defensive dog. It's taken months of loving her and assuring her that she'll always have food to get her to where she is today. I hope her former owners burn in hell.

[Ava]

Well, the condo association manager called me.
He was extremely rude to me but he's in general very disrespectful. He said I could have left a message on his invoice instead of making him call me. But he said he'll talk to the condo's owner and if nothing happens then he'll send the renters a letter.
I feel horrible. It's a lose-lose situation for me. And it can turn ugly if they find out it was me. I told the manager to keep this anonymous but who knows.

Anyway, I can't let a dog suffer and do nothing.

[Ava]

Sept 22, 2017 10:20:54 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sept 22, 2017 9:48:02 GMT -5 Ava said:

It has food and water but it is exposed to the elements and confined to a very small space. Yesterday it was there for over twelve hours. To me that is at least neglect and probable abuse.

Is this a true balcony - like not at ground level? How many other units can see the balcony? How many other units can not see the balcony but will be able to HEAR the dog bark? How much poop and pee has the puppy already done on the balcony?

I suspect that other people living in your building are aware of the dog.... and if the dog is barking (especially in the am and pm hours) there will be anger and probably complaints.

The other thing is - the tenants are breaking the HOA rules - you said the new policy was 'no pets'. This is DEFINITELY an issue for the landlord/property manager and the HOA.

 

A nonstop barking dog becomes a "public nuicance" and most places with local government HAVE laws about those.

(and who's cleaning up after the dog I feel bad  for anyone BELOW the balcony the dog is on...   Big Dogs make really big poops and pees. 

It's a true balcony and everybody in the other units can see and hear this. But nobody is under them because the condos are townhouses. The units share side walls but have their own entrances. No units above or below.

[haapai]

Simultaneous calls to the HOA, Animal Control, the local ASPCA or Humane Society (these often operate separately from Animal Control), and possibly a breed rescue organization, might be the right thing to do in this situation. 

Dogs are social animals.  They need to interact with humans or other dogs.  Depriving them of that interaction is a form of animal cruelty.  In this case, where the dog is very large and still a puppy, the isolation is probably going to lead to a very bad outcome.  Also, in this case, the animal's chances of being re-homed are very good.  Purebred puppies are much more likely to find good second homes than adult mutts. 

So make the calls even if none of the entities involved has much ability to force your neighbors to do anything.  The HOA may drag it's feet.  Animal Control may say that if the animal has food and water and isn't currently experiencing extreme heat, cold, or rain, they can't find neglect.  The ASPCA/Humane Society may tell you that they have no little legal authority except reporting abuse to Animal Control.  The rescue folks may agree with you that the animal is being abused, but the odds are good that they will also sternly inform you that they are not the type of animal rescue outfit that "liberates" abused animals. 

The more calls that you make, the better the odds are that this family will land up talking to multiple entities that tell them that something is wrong with the way that their dog is being treated and suggest multiple ways that they can re-home the animal. 

It's an easy decision to make in this animal's case. 

[Ava]

Sept 22, 2017 11:18:39 GMT -5 haapai said:

Simultaneous calls to the HOA, Animal Control, the local ASPCA or Humane Society (these often operate separately from Animal Control), and possibly a breed rescue organization, might be the right thing to do in this situation. 

Dogs are social animals.  They need to interact with humans or other dogs.  Depriving them of that interaction is a form of animal cruelty.  In this case, where the dog is very large and still a puppy, the isolation is probably going to lead to a very bad outcome.  Also, in this case, the animal's chances of being re-homed is very good.  Purebred puppies are much more likely to find good second homes than adult mutts. 

So make the calls even if none of the entities involved has much ability to force your neighbors to do anything.  The HOA may drag it's feet.  Animal Control may say that if the animal has food and water and isn't currently experiencing extreme heat, cold, or rain, they can't find neglect.  The ASPCA/Humane Society may tell you that they have no little legal authority except reporting abuse to Animal Control.  The rescue folks may agree with you that the animal is being abused, but the odds are good that they will also sternly inform you that they are not the type of animal rescue outfit that "liberates" abused animals. 

The more calls that you make, the better the odds are that this family will land up talking to multiple entities that tell them that something is wrong with the way that their dog is being treated and suggest multiple ways that they can re-home the animal. 

It's an easy decision to make in this animal's case. 

Thanks for the suggestions but I'll wait to see what happens from my call to the HOA admin. manager.
This is extremely difficult for me. I already feel horrible and uncomfortable. I'll wait a few days and if nothing happens I'll contact the manager again. I think the HOA rules are my best bet for this situation.

[haapai]

That's your choice.  The HOA may be the only group that has any legal grounds for demanding anything can be done. 

Which leads me to suggest that if nothing happens after a complaint to the HOA and you land up making other calls, you might want to avoid mentioning that the dog has food and water and is being taken inside sometimes. 

It's impossible to tell from the ground whether the dog has food and water, right?  Saying it that way is much more likely to get someone to the apartment as well as disguise the identity of the person making the call. 

[gacpa]

Thank you for trying to help this dog.  He probably needs to be put in a rescue or shelter where he can be adopted to the right family.

It is hard to watch this, I know.   I understand you feel bad about trying to do something, but you are doing the right thing.  I know sometimes it feels like no good deed goes unpunished.

[hoops902]

Sept 22, 2017 9:45:34 GMT -5 Ava said:

It has food and water. They took it inside after eight last night. It's still abuse since its a small balcony, huge dog and the animal is obviously distressed. I'm still waiting for the management company to call me. They are not very responsible and it wouldn't surprise me if they don't return my call. I'll send them an email tonight and call again early on Monday.

How small of a balcony? Huge dogs sit in rather small crates all the time. They're naturally den animals who crave a small space (obviously I don't know what this balcony looks like). 

There's a difference between you labeling something as abuse, and actual legal abuse.

[Green Eyed Lady]

I'm a huge animal lover so I wouldn't give a damn if they knew it was me if I really felt the dog was being neglected/abused. If they hate me over something they were doing wrong....so be it.

A dog barks for a couple of reasons and one of them is boredom. Dogs love interaction and he isn't getting much. Therefore, he barks. If that barking is a nuisance, you have every right to complain. Even as an animal lover, I can't take continuous barking that I can hear inside my home - or outside for that matter.

You have to decide what is really bothering you. Is the abuse/neglect? Is it the barking? Is it just the audacity of the people to disregard rules? Then you have to decide how much animosity you are willing to put up with over making a complaint. Personally, I wouldn't care in at least the first two situations. I can shovel my own driveway.

It's also very possible they don't know the rules and don't know the barking is disturbing you.  If they don't, give them a chance to correct the situation.

[hoops902]

Sept 22, 2017 11:14:50 GMT -5 Ava said:

Well, the condo association manager called me.
He was extremely rude to me but he's in general very disrespectful. He said I could have left a message on his invoice instead of making him call me. But he said he'll talk to the condo's owner and if nothing happens then he'll send the renters a letter.
I feel horrible. It's a lose-lose situation for me. And it can turn ugly if they find out it was me. I told the manager to keep this anonymous but who knows.

Anyway, I can't let a dog suffer and do nothing.

Not that this is relevant to the specific case...but it is SUPER annoying to call someone just to tell them to call you back. Seems very disrespectful to me, it's basically saying "I need something from you, but instead of telling you, I'm going to make it your problem to even find out what my problem is".

The other obvious point though, is that if you'd left a voicemail, you could have easily kept it anonymous by not telling him who you are and just reporting that an occupant has a dog.

[haapai]

FWIW, if the animal is being tied up while on the balcony, the configuration of the balcony may lead to another line of complaint.  There may be a possibility of the animal strangling itself. 

Obviously, you do not want to talk about the particulars of the balcony in question, so I'm not expecting you to respond in any way to this speculation. 

If the balcony in question is completely self-contained, i.e. accessible only via the apartment, and the balcony is made of solid material or has closely-set bars, the dog isn't in much danger. 

But it it's a walk-up balcony without a gate or has wide spaces between vertical bars which the dog could conceivably squeeze between, there may a strangulation hazard. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Huge dogs sit in rather small crates all the time

The crate needs to be bigh enough for them to sit down, stand up, turn around, lie down and (ideally) if they have an accident not be sitting in their own waste.   We failed the last one when Sabah ate a whole rabbit without our knowledge.

If my dog can do none of that and I am witnessed leaving it in the crate then I can be charged with animal cruelty.  Doubly so if the too small crate is left outside because that's an exposure risk.  We have extreme heat and extreme cold as you well know, leaving an animal outside in those conditions constitutes neglect.

A pug my parents owned had hip dysplasia.   A lady saw him in the yard dragging his butt around and reported my parents.  All they had to do was provide documentation from the vet and it was over.

If they are doing nothing wrong then a welfare visit from the humane society should be no big deal.  If they are, then it gives the chance a dog to be retrieved and adopted out to a good home.  If it's a pure bred puppy there will be a line out the door of potential owners.

[Tiny]

Sept 22, 2017 11:22:16 GMT -5 Ava said:

Sept 22, 2017 11:18:39 GMT -5 haapai said:

 . 

Thanks for the suggestions but I'll wait to see what happens from my call to the HOA admin. manager.
This is extremely difficult for me. I already feel horrible and uncomfortable. I'll wait a few days and if nothing happens I'll contact the manager again. I think the HOA rules are my best bet for this situation.

YES. As the owner of rented out Condo with an HOA with a 3 inch thick binder of "rules and such" - it's a 80 unit "subdivision" of condos. Your HOA rules and the HOA itself are the ones to deal with this problem.      If the HOA has a rule against pets OR if there are complaints about noise (or dog poop/pee) or any sort of disturbance it's the HOA.   

I guess you will be finding out how strong your HOA is.  

(FWIW:  I'm not really sure this is an issue of abuse... not at this point.)

 

 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'd at least call in a welfare check just for the simple reason it's only a matter of time before the HOA/landlord make them get rid of the dog.  Then maybe at least if the society is already there they will be willing to surrender the dog for adoption.  We have A LOT of people around here that simply their dogs and drive off.    That's how we ended up with Sabah.

[raeoflyte]

Sept 22, 2017 12:15:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Huge dogs sit in rather small crates all the time

The crate needs to be bigh enough for them to sit down, stand up, turn around, lie down and (ideally) if they have an accident not be sitting in their own waste.   We failed the last one when Sabah ate a whole rabbit without our knowledge.

If my dog can do none of that and I am witnessed leaving it in the crate then I can be charged with animal cruelty.  Doubly so if the too small crate is left outside because that's an exposure risk.  We have extreme heat and extreme cold as you well know, leaving an animal outside in those conditions constitutes neglect.

A pug my parents owned had hip dysplasia.   A lady saw him in the yard dragging his butt around and reported my parents.  All they had to do was provide documentation from the vet and it was over.

If they are doing nothing wrong then a welfare visit from the humane society should be no big deal.  If they are, then it gives the chance a dog to be retrieved and adopted out to a good home.  If it's a pure bred puppy there will be a line out the door of potential owners.

There is no way that the balcony is smaller than is suitable for the dog to turn around in.   

[raeoflyte]

Sept 22, 2017 11:29:09 GMT -5 haapai said:

That's your choice.  The HOA may be the only group that has any legal grounds for demanding anything can be done. 

Which leads me to suggest that if nothing happens after a complaint to the HOA and you land up making other calls, you might want to avoid mentioning that the dog has food and water and is being taken inside sometimes. 

It's impossible to tell from the ground whether the dog has food and water, right?  Saying it that way is much more likely to get someone to the apartment as well as disguise the identity of the person making the call. 

Which also takes them away from cases with actual abuse and neglect.