(R) Sen questions source of McCain's vote against ACA repeal

[chiver78]

keeping it classy.  


Senator suggests McCain's brain tumor "clouded his judgment"

[dondub]

What about Collins and Murkowski? Menopause? Blood coming from their wherever?

[Rob Base 2.0]

  It was payback for all the POW trash talk Trump did during the campaign..........more like payback for how much McCain just generally dislikes Trump too.....

[billisonboard]

Aug 9, 2017 18:38:15 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

  It was payback for all the POW trash talk Trump did during the campaign..........more like payback for how much McCain just generally dislikes Trump too.....

Maybe or maybe it could have been:

“I’ve stated time and time again that one of the major failures of Obamacare was that it was rammed through Congress by Democrats on a strict party-line basis without a single Republican vote,” he said in a statement explaining his vote. “We should not make the mistakes of the past.” www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/the-night-john-mccain-killed-the-gops-health-care-fight/2017/07/28/f5acce58-7361-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.76b2606c3d32

[Rob Base 2.0]

 If he really felt that way, than why didn't he veto the initial thingee that started allowed the discussion / debate on health care to continue?  Like a drama queen, he arrived just in the nick of time and voted for that (knowing no democrats would have any input)

www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html

so if having democratic input was really important to him, why even vote in favor to continue the debate? (which eventually led to the Bill he vetoed)

Why not just veto the whole discussion from jumpstreet? 

Answer: to make Trump look even worse

[Rob Base 2.0]

So help me understand this logic flow

McCain really wants democratic input into the health care bill

So, McCain returns like a drama queen just in the nick of time to cast a Yes vote to start a conversation / debate on health care legislation, the result of tjis debate/ conversation is supposed to end in legislation.

McCain knows this debate / conversation will NOT include democrats. So why vote for the conversation / debate (that will NOT include democrats) in the first place, if you really want democratic input? Makes no sense.

[tallguy]

McCain's history has been to vote to open debate pretty much all of the time.  By doing so, he was not committing to support the previous bill, or any bill.  He in fact blasted both the proposed bill, the process, and his colleagues immediately after voting to allow debate.  The idea on the skinny repeal bill was that the House would guarantee that they would not also pass it, which would force debate and negotiations on a new bill between the House and the Senate.  Some senators who opposed the repeal bill voted for it because they interpreted House Speaker Ryan's comments to include such a guarantee.  McCain thought those comments were insufficient, so voted against the repeal to ensure in his own mind that the House would not simply pass it as is. 

[zibazinski]

Considering his Cadillac plan is paid for by taxpayers, I can see his vote.

[Rob Base 2.0]

So Tallguy, I still don't understand the logic flow

according to the OP, McCain's hill to die on is really wanting democratic input into the bill.

So knowing this, he votes "Yes" to open debate (a debate whuch will NOT include democratic input). Your saying he did this for 2 reasons-

1) he "always" votes Yes to opening debate (which I'll try to verify, but even if true that seems a weak argument to me)

2) McCain knew if some health bill passed the senate that it had to go back to the House and McCain "hoped" Ryan would include democrats from the house for input then?? And then when McCain heard some of the things Ryan was saying while the Senate was debating and McCain suddenly realized Ryan wouldn't include democratic input and NOW because of that McCain decided to veto the bill?

Tallguy do I have this correct, or where did i misunderstand your post?

[Rob Base 2.0]

When voting on principle, does one always smugly proclaim "enjoy the show"?

Look I am not saying it was a great bill. I am sure lots if Republicans held their nose and voted yes. I am not saying McCain should have voted "yes". But the reason McCain gave in the OP doesn't make sense.

Not trying to be mean, but McCain knows he is dieing. No more need for re-elections. No need for "political capital" anymore. He dislikes Trump (for valid reasons IMO). This was a pure "stick it to Trump" IMO.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 10, 2017 8:40:06 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

When voting on principle, does one always smugly proclaim "enjoy the show"?

Look I am not saying it was a great bill. I am sure lots if Republicans held their nose and voted yes. I am not saying McCain should have voted "yes". But the reason McCain gave in the OP doesn't make sense.

Not trying to be mean, but McCain knows he is dieing. No more need for re-elections. No need for "political capital" anymore. He dislikes Trump (for valid reasons IMO). This was a pure "stick it to Trump" IMO.

trump's maniacal, egotistical, drive to get rid of the ACA is pure "stick it to Obama."

[tallguy]

Aug 10, 2017 8:33:01 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

So Tallguy, I still don't understand the logic flow

according to the OP, McCain's hill to die on is really wanting democratic input into the bill.

So knowing this, he votes "Yes" to open debate (a debate whuch will NOT include democratic input). Your saying he did this for 2 reasons-

1) he "always" votes Yes to opening debate (which I'll try to verify, but even if true that seems a weak argument to me)

2) McCain knew if some health bill passed the senate that it had to go back to the House and McCain "hoped" Ryan would include democrats from the house for input then?? And then when McCain heard some of the things Ryan was saying while the Senate was debating and McCain suddenly realized Ryan wouldn't include democratic input and NOW because of that McCain decided to veto the bill?

Tallguy do I have this correct, or where did i misunderstand your post?

Well, opening debate committed him to nothing.  He could still vote for or against any bill to come out of that debate, so it is essentially meaningless.  He wanted more assurances that the House would not pass the repeal bill on its own.  Ryan and the House would then have to join with the Senate to together pass something.  Presumably, there would have had to be some cooperation with Democrats to achieve this, since the Republicans were unable to pass anything on their own.  The cooperation would have been necessary first in the Senate since the GOP majority is less there.  Enough House Democrats would have then needed to come along to overcome the hard-line House Republicans from torpedoing any bill that could actually pass.  The key to any bill would be moderate Republicans, in my opinion.  If they were to side with Democrats, something would get done.  It certainly would not result in either side's "wish list" but they could do something.  I don't think they would side with hard-line Republicans, for reasons they already articulated.   

[Rob Base 2.0]

Aug 10, 2017 8:46:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 10, 2017 8:40:06 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

When voting on principle, does one always smugly proclaim "enjoy the show"?

Look I am not saying it was a great bill. I am sure lots if Republicans held their nose and voted yes. I am not saying McCain should have voted "yes". But the reason McCain gave in the OP doesn't make sense.

Not trying to be mean, but McCain knows he is dieing. No more need for re-elections. No need for "political capital" anymore. He dislikes Trump (for valid reasons IMO). This was a pure "stick it to Trump" IMO.

trump's maniacal, egotistical, drive to get rid of the ACA is pure "stick it to Obama."

Even if it was true, what does that have to do with anything on this thread??

(BTW- newsflash: Repubs campaigned for 7 years "repeal" and then added "replace"....also from the get go Trump campaigned on repeal and replace......sure Trump wants to "stick it to Obama" any chance he gets, Trump is petty. But what dies that have to do with anything on this thread?)

[Rob Base 2.0]

Aug 10, 2017 8:51:18 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Aug 10, 2017 8:33:01 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

So Tallguy, I still don't understand the logic flow

according to the OP, McCain's hill to die on is really wanting democratic input into the bill.

So knowing this, he votes "Yes" to open debate (a debate whuch will NOT include democratic input). Your saying he did this for 2 reasons-

1) he "always" votes Yes to opening debate (which I'll try to verify, but even if true that seems a weak argument to me)

2) McCain knew if some health bill passed the senate that it had to go back to the House and McCain "hoped" Ryan would include democrats from the house for input then?? And then when McCain heard some of the things Ryan was saying while the Senate was debating and McCain suddenly realized Ryan wouldn't include democratic input and NOW because of that McCain decided to veto the bill?

Tallguy do I have this correct, or where did i misunderstand your post?

Well, opening debate committed him to nothing.  He could still vote for or against any bill to come out of that debate, so it is essentially meaningless.  He wanted more assurances that the House would not pass the repeal bill on its own.  Ryan and the House would then have to join with the Senate to together pass something.  Presumably, there would have had to be some cooperation with Democrats to achieve this, since the Republicans were unable to pass anything on their own.  The cooperation would have been necessary first in the Senate since the GOP majority is less there.  Enough House Democrats would have then needed to come along to overcome the hard-line House Republicans from torpedoing any bill that could actually pass.  The key to any bill would be moderate Republicans, in my opinion.  If they were to side with Democrats, something would get done.  It certainly would not result in either side's "wish list" but they could do something.  I don't think they would side with hard-line Republicans, for reasons they already articulated.   

I am a simple guy, so what u r saying is like I said: "McCain thought some way shape or form that Ryan would work with democrats??

I am not even a politician and even i know that wasn't happening.

so to summarize

McCain really wants democratic input. Votes yes to debate bill in Senate where he knows NO democratic input will be involved in this debate (on hopes Ryan will get democratic input when bill is sent to House). Once he realizes this isn't going to hapoen in the house due to Ryan's rhetoric, McCain now vetoes the bill ("watch the show")

sure. sounds more plausible then sticking it to Trump.

i would have thought Ryan would include democratic input too (sarcasm)

[tallguy]

It wasn't going ANYWHERE with just Republicans.  They already proved that.  If they did not include Democrats to at least get SOMETHING done, the subject was dead.  They didn't, at least so far, so the subject is dead for now.  Speculation is that some type of bipartisan effort to "fix" the ACA is on the way.  We'll see.  

[Tennesseer]

Aug 10, 2017 8:53:26 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Aug 10, 2017 8:46:26 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

trump's maniacal, egotistical, drive to get rid of the ACA is pure "stick it to Obama."

Even if it was true, what does that have to do with anything on this thread??

(BTW- newsflash: Repubs campaigned for 7 years "repeal" and then added "replace"....also from the get go Trump campaigned on repeal and replace......sure Trump wants to "stick it to Obama" any chance he gets, Trump is petty. But what dies that have to do with anything on this thread?)

There's a lot of crazy going on in Congress and the White House. Doesn't mean McCain was not of sound mind to vote for discussion and then vote against repeal.

Additionally, you mentioned sticking it to trump. I just mentioned there is also sticking it to Obama. A lot of wanting to stick it to someone/anyone/everyone on Washington. Thus my comment.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Aug 10, 2017 9:07:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 10, 2017 8:53:26 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Even if it was true, what does that have to do with anything on this thread??

(BTW- newsflash: Repubs campaigned for 7 years "repeal" and then added "replace"....also from the get go Trump campaigned on repeal and replace......sure Trump wants to "stick it to Obama" any chance he gets, Trump is petty. But what dies that have to do with anything on this thread?)

There's a lot of crazy going on in Congress and the White House. Doesn't mean McCain was not of sound mind to vote for discussion and then vote against repeal.

Additionally, you mentioned sticking it to trump. I just mentioned there is also sticking it to Obama. A lot of wanting to stick it to someone/anyone/everyone on Washington. Thus my comment.

again ur post has nothing to do with anything on this thread. I am sure it makes you feel better though, so there is that :-)

where did I say McCain was NOT of sound mind? I think he is totally sound. I just think he is fibbing / over exaggerating the real reason for his vote.

I am just telling you the real reason is sticking it to Trump. making Trump seem like a bad POTUS that cant get legislation passed (which is not far from the truth) even when Repubs have House & Senate. Not saying it is right or wrong. just my oppinion based on facts - McCain thinks Trump is not a good POTUS, election grudge over POW comments (and others), rationale for why he voted against health bill makes no sense (due to the reasons I laid out on this thread)- by "no sense" I do NOT mean McCain is crazy, just covering up real reason for his vote.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Aug 10, 2017 9:05:50 GMT -5 tallguy said:

It wasn't going ANYWHERE with just Republicans.  They already proved that.  If they did not include Democrats to at least get SOMETHING done, the subject was dead.  They didn't, at least so far, so the subject is dead for now.  Speculation is that some type of bipartisan effort to "fix" the ACA is on the way.  We'll see.  

I agree it wasn't going anywhere without some democratic votes (repubs r too fractured). But what "should" happen, what we "want", to happen, etc. is different than what will actually hapoen. Even i could predict what would actually happen. I am positive McCain could too.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 10, 2017 9:31:21 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Aug 10, 2017 9:07:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

There's a lot of crazy going on in Congress and the White House. Doesn't mean McCain was not of sound mind to vote for discussion and then vote against repeal.

Additionally, you mentioned sticking it to trump. I just mentioned there is also sticking it to Obama. A lot of wanting to stick it to someone/anyone/everyone on Washington. Thus my comment.

again ur post has nothing to do with anything on this thread. I am sure it makes you feel better though, so there is that :-)

where did I say McCain was NOT of sound mind? I think he is totally sound. I just think he is fibbing / over exaggerating the real reason for his vote.

I am just telling you the real reason is sticking it to Trump. making Trump seem like a bad POTUS that cant get legislation passed (which is not far from the truth) even when Repubs have House & Senate. Not saying it is right or wrong. just my oppinion based on facts - McCain thinks Trump is not a good POTUS, election grudge over POW comments (and others), rationale for why he voted against health bill makes no sense (due to the reasons I laid out on this thread)- by "no sense" I do NOT mean McCain is crazy, just covering up real reason for his vote.

The article was about a senator stating McCain maybe not being of sound due to the brain tumor and the lste hour of the vote, no?

Not everything I post is about you.

[Rob Base 2.0]

Aug 10, 2017 9:39:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Aug 10, 2017 9:31:21 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

again ur post has nothing to do with anything on this thread. I am sure it makes you feel better though, so there is that :-)

where did I say McCain was NOT of sound mind? I think he is totally sound. I just think he is fibbing / over exaggerating the real reason for his vote.

I am just telling you the real reason is sticking it to Trump. making Trump seem like a bad POTUS that cant get legislation passed (which is not far from the truth) even when Repubs have House & Senate. Not saying it is right or wrong. just my oppinion based on facts - McCain thinks Trump is not a good POTUS, election grudge over POW comments (and others), rationale for why he voted against health bill makes no sense (due to the reasons I laid out on this thread)- by "no sense" I do NOT mean McCain is crazy, just covering up real reason for his vote.

The article was about a senator stating McCain maybe not being of sound due to the brain tumor and the lste hour of the vote, no?

Not everything I post is about you.

How silly of me to think that it was a reference to something about my post (when u r the one that "replied" to my post)

[thyme4change]

If America can elect and be pleased with a crazy person as president, I am fine electing and being happy about a crazy person representing my state.

[Tennesseer]

Aug 10, 2017 9:59:26 GMT -5 Rob Base 2.0 said:

Aug 10, 2017 9:39:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The article was about a senator stating McCain maybe not being of sound due to the brain tumor and the lste hour of the vote, no?

Not everything I post is about you.

How silly of me to think that it was a reference to something about my post (when u r the one that "replied" to my post)

You are right. You are being silly.