42% Say Govt should wipe out student Loan Debt

[alabamagal]

This really makes me worried....

www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/07/07/42-americans-want-trump-to-forgive-their-student-loan-debt.html

OK in the article it says Trump should do it, but I don't want to make it political.

My kids all have student loan debt.  All under $30k.  I want them to pay it.  I tell them that the amount is same as getting a new car, so instead of a new car, drive your old one for an extra 5 years, you will live.  And if your college car doesn't last you 5 years, replace it with another cheap used car.

If the government wipes out student debt, maybe next should be mortgages and credit cards.  

[souldoubt]

Doesn't worry me because it's not going to happen.  Rising costs of college aside these individuals took out that debt and it's their burden to bear not the government, i.e. taxpayers.  

[Deleted]

Yeah, I don't see that happening, especially under Trump, I mean he's already been backstepping on the loan forgiveness program.

Plus, I have a hard time believing that 42% say that! 

[midjd]

Jul 7, 2017 12:52:27 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Yeah, I don't see that happening, especially under Trump, I mean he's already been backstepping on the loan forgiveness program.

Plus, I have a hard time believing that 42% say that! 

It's from a survey from MoneyTips.com... probably far from a representative sample. I am someone who hopes to benefit from PSLF and do not even remotely believe the government should forgive all federal SL debt. On the other hand, people perusing a debt management website might.

But piling on all of us entitled millennials never gets old!

[billisonboard]

Q: Do you believe that President Trump’s administration should forgive all federal student debt in order to help stimulate the economy?

Wonder what percentage would agree or stronger agree with the Q: Do you believe that President Trump’s administration should forgive all federal student debt in order to let younger people off the hook?

[Value Buy]

Jul 7, 2017 12:52:27 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Yeah, I don't see that happening, especially under Trump, I mean he's already been backstepping on the loan forgiveness program.

Plus, I have a hard time believing that 42% say that! 

Why?
Between the actual students that borrowed the money, plus their parents who are worried they will wind up paying them off have to equal about 45% of the adult population.
42% sounds reasonable because they have skin in the game.

everyone wants something for nothing.

[midjd]

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. People want to talk about "fake news" (usually when it's a left-leaning source), but a headline that says "42 percent of Americans want _______" based solely on data from a click survey on a commercial website is patently false.

(This is not directed at the OP, but at the Fox Business writer who made an entire story out of this crap.) 

In any event, no, I would not worry that this survey is indicative of anything but the media's love affair with click bait and fomenting generational infighting. 

/rant

[emma1420]

I kind of agree with the idea that a certain amount of student debt should be forgiven.  I like the public service forgiveness program, I just think it's too complicated and it doesn't go far enough.  

More than 60% of college graduates have student loan debt of some type.  And the Department of Education is projected to make a profit of $127 billion over the next 10 years. Given that grants are much more challenging to get and that student loan is not discharged in bankruptcy. then I believe at least some portion should be forgiven.   There has to be a way to develop a program that helps forgive a certain amount of debt without rewarding people who opted to spend 100k on a degree in underwater basket weaving.

[phil5185]

We probably should 'help', but not pay the entire freight - and we should fix the problems before the next generation falls into the same trap.

As usual, I blame our K-12 system.

1. Stop charging rates in the 7% range, instead give kids zero rate loans - do we as a society, really need to have a 7% income stream from kids? Some of the loans grow to 2X over 20 yrs. And teach enough HS math so that kids will know what loans they are getting.
2. Provide some counseling to kids in 11th/12 the grades. In the 1950's our HS had various business-people come to the school and teach us about their company. Some kids went to work at those companies at age 18 - and some kids learned that they needed to go to college.
3. Tell kids about the finances of various choices. "Follow your Dream" doesn't get it - kids with a BA in flower arranging are not getting jobs. And certainly not getting jobs that allow them to repay a $100,000 loan. Our K12s (and parents) should quit telling kids that any degree is good - it isn't.
4. As for "forgiving" after the fact - I'm in favor of waiving all interest, accumulated or due, and deal only with the original loan principal.  (That doesn't cost anything to the tax-payer but it stops the income stream to the lenders (taxpayers).
5. And maybe consider a 10 or 15 year 'look-back' for kids who did unusually dumb stuff that essentially ruins their lives - and, in addition to the interest waiver, consider some principal forgiveness?

[Deleted]

I think interest rates could be lowered for fed loans but they need to be repaid. It's a social contract. 

I think private loans  should be dischargable. 

[Deleted]

Jul 7, 2017 13:30:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 7, 2017 12:52:27 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Yeah, I don't see that happening, especially under Trump, I mean he's already been backstepping on the loan forgiveness program.

Plus, I have a hard time believing that 42% say that! 

Why?
Between the actual students that borrowed the money, plus their parents who are worried they will wind up paying them off have to equal about 45% of the adult population.
42% sounds reasonable because they have skin in the game.

everyone wants something for nothing.

I guess because I didn't realize that that many people were carrying student loans.  Plus there has to be people with debt or parents of those that would still say no to this.  The OP being one.  In my world the number of people carrying student loan debt is pretty small when you look at a representative sample of the population.

[Value Buy]

Jul 7, 2017 13:53:21 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 7, 2017 13:30:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Why?
Between the actual students that borrowed the money, plus their parents who are worried they will wind up paying them off have to equal about 45% of the adult population.
42% sounds reasonable because they have skin in the game.

everyone wants something for nothing.

I guess because I didn't realize that that many people were carrying student loans.  Plus there has to be people with debt or parents of those that would still say no to this.  The OP being one.  In my world the number of people carrying student loan debt is pretty small when you look at a representative sample of the population.

hey, I am just guessing at the numbers!
BUT, if you listen to family and friends you hear the nightmares that are out there. Most of the students we know have loans.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2017 13:49:00 GMT -5 oped said:

I think interest rates could be lowered for fed loans but they need to be repaid. It's a social contract. 

I think private loans  should be dischargable. 

I like the idea of 0% interest loans.  With perhaps some sort of fee for serving the loans (either paid when the loan is taken out or as a flat fee per year).

My student loans are at 2.5% (which is why I'm still paying them), and about 40% of my total cost is just in interest.  I like the idea of 0% interest loans providing that you are current and/or have an approved waiver (such as a deferment for continued schooling, serving in the peace corp, etc.), with the idea that every time you miss a payment your interest rate resets upwards by a quarter percentage or something.  

The reality is that student debt levels are just going to get worse.  I graduated in the late 90's.  Tuition at my alma mater has more than tripled in under 20 years.  As has the local community college's tuition.  In the same time period wages have rise 30%.  Something has to give.  I don't think what we have now is sustainable.

College shouldn't be something that is reserved for the children of the upper middle class and wealthy, and unless we do something I think it's going to become that way.

[Deleted]

I think there should be more academic grant money...or should I say there should BE academic grant money.  As it is, I don't think there are any Federal grants that aren't need based.  Right now a low academic performing student from a low income family can get money thrown at him left and right, but a high academic achiever from a middle class family is hosed with paying the full thing.  Yeah, they can compete for scholarships, but there is no Federal grant program like the PELL where you just have to meet some benchmarks and you are awarded it.  They should have something that if your GPA is this and your ACT is this you get this. I think some of the states do that already. 

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2017 13:56:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Jul 7, 2017 13:53:21 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I guess because I didn't realize that that many people were carrying student loans.  Plus there has to be people with debt or parents of those that would still say no to this.  The OP being one.  In my world the number of people carrying student loan debt is pretty small when you look at a representative sample of the population.

hey, I am just guessing at the numbers!
BUT, if you listen to family and friends you hear the nightmares that are out there. Most of the students we know have loans.

There are more than 43 million people with student debt.  More than 60% of college graduates have student debt.  More than 1.4 trillion is owed in student debt.

I graduated in the late 90's.  Even back then I only had one friend who graduated debt free.  Everyone else had some sort of student debt.  Most of them were just hoping to get it paid off before their future kid's went to college.

[billisonboard]

Jul 7, 2017 13:45:08 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

We probably should 'help', but not pay the entire freight - and we should fix the problems before the next generation falls into the same trap.

As usual, I blame our K-12 system.

...
2. Provide some counseling to kids in 11th/12 the grades. In the 1950's our HS had various business-people come to the school and teach us about their company. Some kids went to work at those companies at age 18 - and some kids learned that they needed to go to college.
...

In the state of Washington, decisions made involving the classes that you sign up for going into the ninth grade can limit the state universities for which you meet enrollment criteria (unless you take make up classes). Counseling needs to start at the middle school level. And it does for some students. Are you aware of the GEAR-UP and AVID programs?

[hoops902]

Jul 7, 2017 14:30:30 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Jul 7, 2017 13:56:13 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

hey, I am just guessing at the numbers!
BUT, if you listen to family and friends you hear the nightmares that are out there. Most of the students we know have loans.

There are more than 43 million people with student debt.  More than 60% of college graduates have student debt.  More than 1.4 trillion is owed in student debt.

I graduated in the late 90's.  Even back then I only had one friend who graduated debt free.  Everyone else had some sort of student debt.  Most of them were just hoping to get it paid off before their future kid's went to college.

Yes, over 43 million, it's 44.2 million actually. So pretty close!

However, the average for a 2016 graduate was $37,172...that seems reasonable and easy enough to pay off if some smart financial decisions are made.  If people can pay off a car that expensive in 5 years, they can pay off their student loan debt before their future kids go to college!  Whether they choose to or not is another story.

[cktc]

I think there should definitely be a cap on interest. You can rate shop and refinance any other loan, but student loans are fixed outside of consolidation and can balloon like crazy in only a few short years. Even restructuring when interest is compounded would help a lot since it's much more difficult to repay right out of college when you are just starting a career or even deferring to continue education.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 7, 2017 13:31:52 GMT -5 midjd said:

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off. People want to talk about "fake news" (usually when it's a left-leaning source), but a headline that says "42 percent of Americans want _______" based solely on data from a click survey on a commercial website is patently false.

(This is not directed at the OP, but at the Fox Business writer who made an entire story out of this crap.) 

In any event, no, I would not worry that this survey is indicative of anything but the media's love affair with click bait and fomenting generational infighting. 

/rant

We can't be sure it's "fake news", though.

For all we know, the survey is representative of national sentiment.

How about "irresponsible news" in the sense that they're sensationalizing a claim based on flimsy evidence?

[MJ2.0]

Yeah, those shady online and for-profit schools need to be shut down IMO.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2017 15:12:10 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

Jul 7, 2017 14:30:30 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

There are more than 43 million people with student debt.  More than 60% of college graduates have student debt.  More than 1.4 trillion is owed in student debt.

I graduated in the late 90's.  Even back then I only had one friend who graduated debt free.  Everyone else had some sort of student debt.  Most of them were just hoping to get it paid off before their future kid's went to college.

Yes, over 43 million, it's 44.2 million actually. So pretty close!

However, the average for a 2016 graduate was $37,172...that seems reasonable and easy enough to pay off if some smart financial decisions are made.  If people can pay off a car that expensive in 5 years, they can pay off their student loan debt before their future kids go to college!  Whether they choose to or not is another story.

I've never bought a car that expensive, so I wouldn't know personally.   But, I think $37,172 is lot considering that many new graduates are making less than 40K a year.  I know some new grads make decent salaries (otherwise the average wouldn't be so high), but a lot of them are taking low wage jobs, especially during the first years.  It's a lot to ask someone to make a $430 a month payment if they are only making $10-$12 an hour, and if do income based payments their term gets extended.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2017 16:04:30 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

So, once again we have the poor getting screwed on one end of the continuum and the "rich" (those that pay the majority of taxes) being the ones potentially left holding the bag.

While, the majority of people hearing about the student loan debt crises probably have no clue what is REALLY driving the issue, they assume, like most of the posts on this thread, that it is students in regular REAL colleges.

Oh, I think that is a huge issue.  The students with some of the highest debt loads are those in for-profit colleges.  Almost 90% of students and graduates of those colleges have student debt.   Not to mention more often than not, those students enroll thinking that they will land a great job when they finish, and those who do finish are often stuck in the same crappy low wage job that they already had, except with tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt.

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2017 12:19:25 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

This really makes me worried....

www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/07/07/42-americans-want-trump-to-forgive-their-student-loan-debt.html

OK in the article it says Trump should do it, but I don't want to make it political.

My kids all have student loan debt.  All under $30k.  I want them to pay it.  I tell them that the amount is same as getting a new car, so instead of a new car, drive your old one for an extra 5 years, you will live.  And if your college car doesn't last you 5 years, replace it with another cheap used car.

If the government wipes out student debt, maybe next should be mortgages and credit cards.  

In part, this simply shows that 42% of the population flunked Econ 101.  Forgiving student loans will stimulate the economy?  Bullshirts!  Taking money from one group of consumers and giving the money to another group of consumers doesn't increase the amount of money available to be spent.  It just changes the pocket the money comes out of.

I'm always impressed by how many people want to spend large amounts of money and then send the bill for their purchases to someone else.  Or is it that those people don't want to accept responsibility for the choices they made?

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2017 13:32:27 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

I kind of agree with the idea that a certain amount of student debt should be forgiven.  I like the public service forgiveness program, I just think it's too complicated and it doesn't go far enough.  

More than 60% of college graduates have student loan debt of some type.  And the Department of Education is projected to make a profit of $127 billion over the next 10 years. Given that grants are much more challenging to get and that student loan is not discharged in bankruptcy. then I believe at least some portion should be forgiven.   There has to be a way to develop a program that helps forgive a certain amount of debt without rewarding people who opted to spend 100k on a degree in underwater basket weaving.

I've got news for you.  There is no way that the Department of Education can make a profit.

Any interest the Department might collect is far less than the cost of operating the Department and it's plethora of programs.

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2017 13:53:21 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jul 7, 2017 13:30:14 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Why?
Between the actual students that borrowed the money, plus their parents who are worried they will wind up paying them off have to equal about 45% of the adult population.
42% sounds reasonable because they have skin in the game.

everyone wants something for nothing.

I guess because I didn't realize that that many people were carrying student loans.  Plus there has to be people with debt or parents of those that would still say no to this.  The OP being one.  In my world the number of people carrying student loan debt is pretty small when you look at a representative sample of the population.

I think we're getting the usual misleading reporting from the media.  Hand picking extreme cases and presenting them as representative of all cases in order to create the impression of news.  When I graduated college, I would have been part of the 60% with student loans.  Mine was $2,300.  My $35 a month payments on my student loan certainly didn't constrain my life after college.  While we often see reports of $100K student loans, I recall seeing infrequent reports of the median student loan amount being as low as about $12K.  I'm not claiming that statistic is accurate, but it is an indicator that the cases cited in the wailing and hand wringing articles on student loan debt may be exceptions, rather than the rule.

[mroped]

Nope! No forgiveness on student loans. Controlling the interest rates- yes but they are not too high as it were. 2.5 and 3 and 4% is not high.
If they get discharged is not about the tax payers left holding the bag but the fact that many will just start thinking that it's alright to do that because the government will take care of it.
Not everybody is higher education material and is about time that people start understanding that.

If there is anything from school loans that could/should be discharged is the loans for teaching degrees and only if the loan recipients are teaching in public schools and at least a 10-15 year period. That way we could get to keep some better people at teaching the younger generation!

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2017 13:45:08 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

We probably should 'help', but not pay the entire freight - and we should fix the problems before the next generation falls into the same trap.

As usual, I blame our K-12 system.

1. Stop charging rates in the 7% range, instead give kids zero rate loans - do we as a society, really need to have a 7% income stream from kids? Some of the loans grow to 2X over 20 yrs. And teach enough HS math so that kids will know what loans they are getting.
2. Provide some counseling to kids in 11th/12 the grades. In the 1950's our HS had various business-people come to the school and teach us about their company. Some kids went to work at those companies at age 18 - and some kids learned that they needed to go to college.
3. Tell kids about the finances of various choices. "Follow your Dream" doesn't get it - kids with a BA in flower arranging are not getting jobs. And certainly not getting jobs that allow them to repay a $100,000 loan. Our K12s (and parents) should quit telling kids that any degree is good - it isn't.
4. As for "forgiving" after the fact - I'm in favor of waiving all interest, accumulated or due, and deal only with the original loan principal.  (That doesn't cost anything to the tax-payer but it stops the income stream to the lenders (taxpayers).
5. And maybe consider a 10 or 15 year 'look-back' for kids who did unusually dumb stuff that essentially ruins their lives - and, in addition to the interest waiver, consider some principal forgiveness?

Phil, the only issue where I don't agree with you is zero interest loans.  I have a problem with no interest loans for degrees in things such as women's studies, or gender studies, or the theory of religious sculpture.  Why encourage people to spend years getting a doctorate in religious sculpture so they can drive a cab (this is a real world example.  Met the guy.  Boyfriend of our department administrative assistant, the MA in art history.).  My thought is no taxpayer backed loans for educations that aren't expected to provide an income that will pay back the loans.  If you want a fluff degree, fine.  But, you or your family will have to pay for it.  (Think the debutants who went to finishing school to learn to become sparkling conversationalists and hostesses.  And maybe learn to paint a nice water color .)

[Deleted]

Yeah I think somewhere between zero and eight is good. 3-4 probably.

Federal loans do have limits.

[Ava]

I took federal student loans to finance my education. No other way I could have gone to school.
My loans are only federal, no private loans. I received all my education at non-profit, state schools. Yet my student loan is my biggest debt, way higher than my mortgage.
I always took extra money because I went to summer classes in order to graduate on time. I could only attend night classes so in summer I could catch up with certain credits I needed.

Didn't use any of the loan proceeds for living expenses as I was working full time all the way from beginning to end. No exotic trips, no expensive cars, etc. The federal loans were used for my education, including books and, during a dark period in 2008 when gasoline prices spiked, some of the money was used for gas.
I started in 2007 at the CC and finished my MBA in 2015. Interest kept accruing as I was going to school. About half my loans were subsidized.
 
The only reason I am able to make payments today and keep my loans in good standing is because I qualified for IBR.
The IBR payments are reasonable, but the downside is that my debt doesn't go down. In fact, it's still growing, tough at an smaller pace. If I go the full 20 or 25 years, I will have a huge tax bill for the loan forgiveness.

I have no problem paying for education and I didn't expect a free ride, but something is wrong with this picture.
On the other hand, I don't regret going to school at all, and the loans were a necessary evil.

[Shooby]

Let's all just blink and let Daddy Govt pay for everything!