Mercy killing / euthanasia or murder? Other?

[Rob Base 2.0]

So I read this story

abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/elderly-man-kills-killed-wife-alzheimers-47326413

About an old guy that killed his wife. She was old and had Alzheimer's. Then he committed suicide.

In the comment section it had people commenting to the effect Alzheimer's sucks. He was heartbroken. He did a mercy killing / euthanasia.....and other sympathetic type comments.

I guess I am a contrarian ...,or cold hearted. Because I read it and I was like, he complained to his family how his wife's condition was stressing him. Next thing the wife is dead and buried in the yard without anyone else knowing but the husband. Police come to check on wife due to family concerns and ONLY then does he kill himself.

Seems more on the shady side than " heartbroken" side to me. Although I am not about to call the dude a stone cold killer, I wouldn't take the "supportive" tone of some of the commenters....

[Virgil Showlion]

I wouldn't have done it in his situation. A person is a person, even if they regress to a childlike state.

It's between him, his wife, and God now.

[Deleted]

Don't think it's possible to know what exactly happened.

DW and I were actually talking about this topic last night and my stance is if I am diagnosed with something like this I will check out before becoming a burden. Will I have the stones to actually do it? Dunno, maybe someday I'll find out.

[gambler]

I have an exit plan and will not hesitate to use it, if I am incapable i left explicit instructions and a living will. there comes a point were there is no quality or use fullness in life only a burden

[NastyWoman]

May 11, 2017 14:42:49 GMT -5 @aj said:

Don't think it's possible to know what exactly happened.

DW and I were actually talking about this topic last night and my stance is if I am diagnosed with something like this I will check out before becoming a burden. Will I have the stones to actually do it? Dunno, maybe someday I'll find out.

The real question is will you have the wits to do know when to do it?  With a physical decline a person can determine when they feel the time has come, but with a mental decline that will be so much harder if not impossible.

[NoNamePerson]

May 11, 2017 17:35:00 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

May 11, 2017 14:42:49 GMT -5 @aj said:

Don't think it's possible to know what exactly happened.

DW and I were actually talking about this topic last night and my stance is if I am diagnosed with something like this I will check out before becoming a burden. Will I have the stones to actually do it? Dunno, maybe someday I'll find out.

The real question is will you have the wits to do know when to do it?  With a physical decline a person can determine when they feel the time has come, but with a mental decline that will be so much harder if not impossible.

So true. I hope I "know" before it's to late from a mental state. I will know if physical decline. But I would never make a decision about someone else's' life. Then again I'm not still married 

[Virgil Showlion]

Statements like "When I start to go, I'll take my own life." disregard the fact that when you start to go, you'll only feel a little bit different than you do now. I'd bet fewer than one in fifty people could actually go through with it.

Suicide is only possible when you've come sufficiently to terms with death. It's a long and drawn-out process, not something you can do purely out of fear or a sudden sense of obligation.

[Tennesseer]

All my mother wanted while she suffered from Alzheimer's disease and in a lucid moment was to be euthanized.   Unfortunately, she had to wait out her death while she faded away.

[weltschmerz]

Hopefully, my last wishes will be honoured. Just kill me, if I'm a drooling vegetable who doesn't recognise her own family and has to be fed and my diaper changed.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 11, 2017 18:24:54 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Hopefully, my last wishes will be honoured. Just kill me, if I'm a drooling vegetable who doesn't recognise her own family and has to be fed and my diaper changed.

You'll be a shoo-in for the Prime Ministership.

[billisonboard]

[empress of self-improvement]

DH has already told me if he ever got hooked up to life support, "accidentally" trip over the plug. Currently he is ok with being alive but when he deteriorates further, not sure what he will want to do. He says kill him and boil his skull since I collect them but I am so not stinking up my house for that. And I don't have the equipment for it anyway.

[spartan7886]

A friend's dad committed suicide shortly (a few months?) after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He may have thought he was doing the right thing by dealing with it when he started to go, but from the way my friend talked and knowing how slow the decline can be, the dad most likely gave up years of decent quality of life out of fear of waiting too long.

[Deleted]

May 11, 2017 18:18:44 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Statements like "When I start to go, I'll take my own life." disregard the fact that when you start to go, you'll only feel a little bit different than you do now. I'd bet fewer than one in fifty people could actually go through with it.

Suicide is only possible when you've come sufficiently to terms with death. It's a long and drawn-out process, not something you can do purely out of fear or a sudden sense of obligation.

In Oregon 64% of people that have went to the trouble of getting the drug have went through with it, IMO it should be legal everywhere and each person can make their own choice:


"Oregon - Has had a physician-assisted suicide law on the books since 1997. Since its enactment, there has been a steady increase in both prescription recipients and the number of deaths. According to the 2015 Data Summary, as of January 27, 2016, prescriptions have been written for 1,545 people, and 991 patients have died from ingesting the drugs that were legally prescribed to them under the law."


www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/

[Virgil Showlion]

May 11, 2017 20:13:25 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

DH has already told me if he ever got hooked up to life support, "accidentally" trip over the plug. Currently he is ok with being alive but when he deteriorates further, not sure what he will want to do. He says kill him and boil his skull since I collect them but I am so not stinking up my house for that. And I don't have the equipment for it anyway.

Sorry... You collect human skulls?

[Tennesseer]

May 11, 2017 20:23:42 GMT -5 spartan7886 said:

A friend's dad committed suicide shortly (a few months?) after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He may have thought he was doing the right thing by dealing with it when he started to go, but from the way my friend talked and knowing how slow the decline can be, the dad most likely gave up years of decent quality of life out of fear of waiting too long.

My mom had AD. In her case it was a moderately fast decline and then several years of 99.8% nothingness. And early onset AD, from beginning to end, can go pretty darn fast.

I don't know if I could take my own life if faced with AD or any other completely debilitating disease such as Lou Gehrig's disease. I do know I don't want to be dependent on anyone for any length of time. Being in a vegetable state (AD) or completely paralyzed and unable to communicate such as the case with locked-in syndrome is not a good quality of life.

And I really don't feel the need to set a good example for others by my suffering in silence.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 11, 2017 20:59:01 GMT -5 @aj said:

May 11, 2017 18:18:44 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Statements like "When I start to go, I'll take my own life." disregard the fact that when you start to go, you'll only feel a little bit different than you do now. I'd bet fewer than one in fifty people could actually go through with it.

Suicide is only possible when you've come sufficiently to terms with death. It's a long and drawn-out process, not something you can do purely out of fear or a sudden sense of obligation.

In Oregon 64% of people that have went to the trouble of getting the drug have went through with it, IMO it should be legal everywhere and each person can make their own choice:


"Oregon - Has had a physician-assisted suicide law on the books since 1997. Since its enactment, there has been a steady increase in both prescription recipients and the number of deaths. According to the 2015 Data Summary, as of January 27, 2016, prescriptions have been written for 1,545 people, and 991 patients have died from ingesting the drugs that were legally prescribed to them under the law."


www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/

The relevant number is what percentage of people say "I'll off myself if I get..." at some point during their lives, and then actually go through with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a third of Oregonians have made this claim. Compare that to a whopping 991 people who actually committed assisted suicide over 20 years. How many Alzheimer's and dementia patients has Oregon had since 1997? For people over 50, the lifetime risk for Alzheimer's alone is 4.5%.

[toomuchreality]

May 11, 2017 18:24:48 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

All my mother wanted while she suffered from Alzheimer's disease and in a lucid moment was to be euthanized.   Unfortunately, she had to wait out her death while she faded away.

I'm sorry you all had to go through this. It was the same way with my mom, while she had Alzheimer's

It's never "that" easy.

[Tennesseer]

May 12, 2017 17:27:13 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

May 11, 2017 18:24:48 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

All my mother wanted while she suffered from Alzheimer's disease and in a lucid moment was to be euthanized.   Unfortunately, she had to wait out her death while she faded away.

I'm sorry you all had to go through this. It was the same way with my mom, while she had Alzheimer's

It's never "that" easy.

My condolences to you too. Awful disease. Mentally wasting away. I was happy for her when she died. No more suffering.

[toomuchreality]

May 12, 2017 17:07:39 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 11, 2017 20:13:25 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

DH has already told me if he ever got hooked up to life support, "accidentally" trip over the plug. Currently he is ok with being alive but when he deteriorates further, not sure what he will want to do. He says kill him and boil his skull since I collect them but I am so not stinking up my house for that. And I don't have the equipment for it anyway.

Sorry... You collect human skulls?

[toomuchreality]

May 12, 2017 17:29:28 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

May 12, 2017 17:27:13 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

I'm sorry you all had to go through this. It was the same way with my mom, while she had Alzheimer's

It's never "that" easy.

My condolences to you too. Awful disease. Mentally wasting away. I was happy for her when she died. No more suffering.

I was happy the suffering ended too. It truly was awful.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2017 17:24:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 11, 2017 20:59:01 GMT -5 @aj said:

In Oregon 64% of people that have went to the trouble of getting the drug have went through with it, IMO it should be legal everywhere and each person can make their own choice:


"Oregon - Has had a physician-assisted suicide law on the books since 1997. Since its enactment, there has been a steady increase in both prescription recipients and the number of deaths. According to the 2015 Data Summary, as of January 27, 2016, prescriptions have been written for 1,545 people, and 991 patients have died from ingesting the drugs that were legally prescribed to them under the law."


www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/

The relevant number is what percentage of people say "I'll off myself if I get..." at some point during their lives, and then actually go through with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a third of Oregonians have made this claim. Compare that to a whopping 991 people who actually committed assisted suicide over 20 years. How many Alzheimer's and dementia patients has Oregon had since 1997? For people over 50, the lifetime risk for Alzheimer's alone is 4.5%.

I provided the relevant statistic, in a state where it is legal the real declaration of wanting to do it is going and filling a prescription. If you have a statistic that counters mine with a source please provide.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 12, 2017 17:44:29 GMT -5 @aj said:

May 12, 2017 17:24:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The relevant number is what percentage of people say "I'll off myself if I get..." at some point during their lives, and then actually go through with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a third of Oregonians have made this claim. Compare that to a whopping 991 people who actually committed assisted suicide over 20 years. How many Alzheimer's and dementia patients has Oregon had since 1997? For people over 50, the lifetime risk for Alzheimer's alone is 4.5%.

I provided the relevant statistic, in a state where it is legal the real declaration of wanting to do it is going and filling a prescription. If you have a statistic that counters mine with a source please provide.

Alas, I don't have a source on the number of people who make 'statements like "When I start to go, I'll take my own life."', which is what I've been talking about since I broached the subject in Reply #6.

Based on personal experience, it is a very high percentage of people.

[mollyanna58]

He killed his wife, buried her in the back yard, lied about her whereabouts, and killed himself when law enforcement came to check on her status.  It does not say how long ago she was killed.

If he had killed her and then immediately killed himself, I would have more sympathy for him. 

[billisonboard]

May 12, 2017 17:24:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 11, 2017 20:59:01 GMT -5 @aj said:

In Oregon 64% of people that have went to the trouble of getting the drug have went through with it, IMO it should be legal everywhere and each person can make their own choice:


"Oregon - Has had a physician-assisted suicide law on the books since 1997. Since its enactment, there has been a steady increase in both prescription recipients and the number of deaths. According to the 2015 Data Summary, as of January 27, 2016, prescriptions have been written for 1,545 people, and 991 patients have died from ingesting the drugs that were legally prescribed to them under the law."


www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/physician-assisted-suicide-fast-facts/

The relevant number is what percentage of people say "I'll off myself if I get..." at some point during their lives, and then actually go through with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a third of Oregonians have made this claim. Compare that to a whopping 991 people who actually committed assisted suicide over 20 years. How many Alzheimer's and dementia patients has Oregon had since 1997? For people over 50, the lifetime risk for Alzheimer's alone is 4.5%.

So compare an actual number to a "I wouldn't be surprised" number? Shouldn't we take into account how many of those claimed they would kill themselves met the criteria under the law and took the steps to use the law? How many claimed they would kill themselves and used means other than the prescription route given under the law? You are not fully taking into account all the factors.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2017 17:56:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 12, 2017 17:24:46 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The relevant number is what percentage of people say "I'll off myself if I get..." at some point during their lives, and then actually go through with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if a third of Oregonians have made this claim. Compare that to a whopping 991 people who actually committed assisted suicide over 20 years. How many Alzheimer's and dementia patients has Oregon had since 1997? For people over 50, the lifetime risk for Alzheimer's alone is 4.5%.

So compare an actual number to a "I wouldn't be surprised" number? Shouldn't we take into account how many of those claimed they would kill themselves met the criteria under the law and took the steps to use the law? How many claimed they would kill themselves and used means other than the prescription route given under the law? You are not fully taking into account all the factors.

If you can provide more stats on it I would be happy to take it into account.

[billisonboard]

May 12, 2017 17:59:46 GMT -5 @aj said:

May 12, 2017 17:56:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So compare an actual number to a "I wouldn't be surprised" number? Shouldn't we take into account how many of those claimed they would kill themselves met the criteria under the law and took the steps to use the law? How many claimed they would kill themselves and used means other than the prescription route given under the law? You are not fully taking into account all the factors.

If you can provide more stats on it I would be happy to take it into account.

As would I.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2017 17:48:57 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 12, 2017 17:44:29 GMT -5 @aj said:

I provided the relevant statistic, in a state where it is legal the real declaration of wanting to do it is going and filling a prescription. If you have a statistic that counters mine with a source please provide.

Alas, I don't have a source on the number of people who make 'statements like "When I start to go, I'll take my own life."', which is what I've been talking about since I broached the subject in Reply #6.

Based on personal experience, it is a very high percentage of people.

I don't know anyone personally besides myself that has made that statement so all I have are stats.

[Deleted]

May 12, 2017 18:04:13 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 12, 2017 17:59:46 GMT -5 @aj said:

If you can provide more stats on it I would be happy to take it into account.

As would I.

There are a lot of right to life and religious sources I'm not really trusting in searching for this. That CNN article was the only hard core stat I could find.

[billisonboard]

May 12, 2017 18:25:29 GMT -5 @aj said:

May 12, 2017 18:04:13 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As would I.

There are a lot of right to life and religious sources I'm not really trusting in searching for this. That CNN article was the only hard core stat I could find.

It is difficult to get actual stats on something like this but it doesn't stop some from using "my best guess" or "from my circle of friend" numbers.