Dept of Energy to Trump " F you"

[Gardening Grandma]

So team Trump sent a questionairre to the Dept of Energy to "provide a list of all Department of Energy employees or contractors who have attended” certain climate change meetings"

Which, naturally, cast a pall of apprehension over employees in the DOE...

The Deot of Energy's response, concluded "We will not be providing any individual names to the transition team.”

www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/12/13/energy-dept-rejects-trumps-request-to-name-climate-change-workers-who-remain-worried/?utm_term=.e3964b0d873a

Good for them. Hopefully more will stand up to the witch hunters.

[Shooby]

Fire them.

[Tennesseer]

Good for the DOE too.  Witch hunt it is.

Related to that:

"Alarmed that decades of crucial climate measurements could vanish under a hostile Trump administration, scientists have begun a feverish attempt to copy reams of government data onto independent servers in hopes of safeguarding it from any political interferences.

The efforts include a “guerrilla archiving” event in Toronto, where experts will copy irreplaceable public data, meetings at the University of Pennsylvania focused on how to download as much federal data as possible in the coming weeks, and a collaboration of scientists and database experts who are compiling an online site to harbor scientific information.

"Something that seemed a little paranoid to me before all of a sudden seems potentially realistic, or at least something you’d want to hedge against,” said Nick Santos, an environmental researcher at the University of California at Davis, who over the weekend began copying government climate data onto a nongovernment server, where it will remain available to the public. “Doing this can only be a good thing. Hopefully they leave everything in place. But if not, we’re planning for that.”"

Scientists are frantically copying U.S. climate data, fearing it might vanish under Trump

[Shooby]

He can give them the other F!  Lol.  You're fired!

[Gardening Grandma]

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

[swamp]

Dec 13, 2016 21:15:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

He can give them the other F!  Lol.  You're fired!

Can't fire them if he can't ID them.  I guess you missed the point of the story.  

[zibazinski]

What if he disbands the department? There's a lot of departments that need to either go altogether or be seriously cut.

[dee27]

Dec 13, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

Last time I checked, as citizens people are free to vote for any candidate they want. The nasty comments on political topics astound me and really diminish any valid points you (the generic you!) want to make!  

[rob base]

Dec 13, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

it's actually not that hard to fire federal career employees......supervisors are just too LAZY to do what needs to be done to make it happen (document, counsel, performance improvement plan)......and also government employees usually job hop fairly frequently within the government system (even within the same organization for those unwilling to physically relocate to another state or whatever)......so usually these LAZY supervisors will just wait for the employee to get accepted for a different job.....and if these LAZY supervisor with substandard employees get a call from another supervisor saying "What do you think about employee X, we are thinking about hiring him for position Z?"......the LAZY supervisor will lie and say they are a great employee just to get rid of them (typically it's a move for a higher position too.......  

But if leadership wants to get rid of someone, they can usually find a way

[Virgil Showlion]

Nobody should be required to declare their views on global warming, much less fired for them. They were right to tell the inquisitors to pound sand.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

You want employees fired for attending meetings to get information for doing their jobs? So everyone in government who doesn't agree with Trump needs to get fired? Dangerous direction this is going. 

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Paul Ryan wanted a Republican President who would pass his bills. Well he got an unfit President who I hope he will educate soon on what to do......sit there and do what I tell you. 

[OldCoyote]

Dec 13, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

You just eliminate the position!

[OldCoyote]

Yes, yes, All of us deplorable idiot's are enjoying the present moment!

[OldCoyote]

Dec 13, 2016 23:11:27 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

You want employees fired for attending meetings to get information for doing their jobs? So everyone in government who doesn't agree with Trump needs to get fired? Dangerous direction this is going. 

I didn't see any place where Trump wanted to fire them, where was it?

[justme]

Because someone who had said it's a hoax instead wants to give them a bonus on attending?

[countrygirl2]

People voted for this mini dictator, they may not want what they get. Whatever

If we can survive, not my problem is all I can say.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 13, 2016 21:00:44 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

So team Trump sent a questionairre to the Dept of Energy to "provide a list of all Department of Energy employees or contractors who have attended” certain climate change meetings"

Which, naturally, cast a pall of apprehension over employees in the DOE...

The Deot of Energy's response, concluded "We will not be providing any individual names to the transition team.”

www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/12/13/energy-dept-rejects-trumps-request-to-name-climate-change-workers-who-remain-worried/?utm_term=.e3964b0d873a

Good for them. Hopefully more will stand up to the witch hunters.

Well, shades of Stephen Harper, who muzzled the climate scientists and marine biologists, denied them access to their own work, and forbade them from speaking to the media.
Sounds about the same.

[Deleted]

There is a meme going around that Trump nominated Cruella De Vil to lead the Humane Society because she knows a lot about dogs. Seems memes are becoming modern day political cartoons.

[dezailoooooo]

Dec 13, 2016 22:53:52 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Nobody should be required to declare their views on global warming, much less fired for them. They were right to tell the inquisitors to pound sand.

ooohhh your in trouble now....theres someone here scrambling aroiund trying to find where u live and who u really are,,,u have to learn to keep such thoughts quiet..we are in a different time now....[understand that the plans of the guillitine is being googled in the wicki..]

[Tennesseer]

To take it a step or two further, it's like asking a university who are the anti-National Socialist Party and Jewish academicians teaching in your university.  

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 14, 2016 9:42:48 GMT -5 dezailoooooo said:

Dec 13, 2016 22:53:52 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Nobody should be required to declare their views on global warming, much less fired for them. They were right to tell the inquisitors to pound sand.

ooohhh your in trouble now....theres someone here scrambling aroiund trying to find where u live and who u really are,,,u have to learn to keep such thoughts quiet..we are in a different time now....[understand that the plans of the guillitine is being googled in the wicki..]

I don't consider it acceptable here. Or here. Or in any of these cases.

Nor do I consider it acceptable when it's AGW believers rather than the skeptics being persecuted (or potentially persecuted). The state has absolutely no right.

Anyone approving of these tactics because it's "team Trump" using them and not the other side should be ashamed of their advocacy. I strongly urge them to reconsider their opinion.

Even to those who believe climate change alarmism should be rooted out of government, I say: to condone this is to forfeit one of the most precious freedoms we have as free citizens. Don't sell your birthright for a morsel of food.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I agree with Virgil.

Trump demanding this list goes against the very nature of science and collaboration.  Science does not move forward if you are only allowed to pursue that which a certain elected official agrees with.

If I am in fear of losing my job then ANY results I produce are suspect because I am generating them under coercion.  It is in my best interest to tell the elected official what they want to hear instead of the truth.

This is what countries like China and Russia do to their scientists.   The United States should be above it.

Anyone who is cheering this and thinks that refusal to submit names is grounds for termination needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.  

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2016 12:03:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I agree with Virgil.

Trump demanding this list goes against the very nature of science and collaboration.  Science does not move forward if you are only allowed to pursue that which a certain elected official agrees with.

If I am in fear of losing my job then ANY results I produce are suspect because I am generating them under coercion.  It is in my best interest to tell the elected official what they want to hear instead of the truth.

This is what countries like China and Russia do to their scientists.   The United States should be above it.

Anyone who is cheering this and thinks that refusal to submit names is grounds for termination needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.  

Remember, AGW is an unproven theory.  The bolded also applies to these Dept of energy employees currently under the Obama administration.  Do they have a position/advancement in the department because of their stance in the belief in AGW.  We all know Obamas stance on the subject.  I only use "belief" because there is no general mention of advanced qualifications.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

Those idiots know how to do the math to add up the electoral college votes I bet !

[busymom]

Dec 14, 2016 12:03:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I agree with Virgil.

Trump demanding this list goes against the very nature of science and collaboration.  Science does not move forward if you are only allowed to pursue that which a certain elected official agrees with.

If I am in fear of losing my job then ANY results I produce are suspect because I am generating them under coercion.  It is in my best interest to tell the elected official what they want to hear instead of the truth.

This is what countries like China and Russia do to their scientists.   The United States should be above it.

Anyone who is cheering this and thinks that refusal to submit names is grounds for termination needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.  

    It's only mildly amusing until you realize that YOUR job or research could be next.  This request doesn't pass the "smell" test.  Even though it'll royally pi$$ off Trump's staff, I admire their refusal. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Dec 14, 2016 12:33:41 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Dec 14, 2016 12:03:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I agree with Virgil.

Trump demanding this list goes against the very nature of science and collaboration.  Science does not move forward if you are only allowed to pursue that which a certain elected official agrees with.

If I am in fear of losing my job then ANY results I produce are suspect because I am generating them under coercion.  It is in my best interest to tell the elected official what they want to hear instead of the truth.

This is what countries like China and Russia do to their scientists.   The United States should be above it.

Anyone who is cheering this and thinks that refusal to submit names is grounds for termination needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.  

Remember, AGW is an unproven theory.  The bolded also applies to these Dept of energy employees currently under the Obama administration.  Do they have a position/advancement in the department because of their stance in the belief in AGW.  We all know Obamas stance on the subject.  I only use "belief" because there is no general mention of advanced qualifications.

There is no proof in research.   There is either evidence for or evidence against.  Whoever "wins" tends to have the highest stack of peer reviewed reproducible evidence behind them.

That is not to say it is not infallible.   Science is slow and plodding for that very reason.   Nothing would get done if we constantly abandoned everything five seconds after something "disproved" it.

When you publish your research you are required to provide along with it any data that conflicts with your conclusions.   While you may not "believe in" or "agree" with something at the end of the day that doesn't matter if you cannot provide reproducible evidence (which means I need to be able to take your paper and run the experiment independently and obtain the same results).   That's what keeps us from becoming a theocracy or being ruled by popular opinion of the day.

It's not a perfect system because it is run by human beings and no system we create is perfect.

I also have a right to my own beliefs.  If I choose to attend an anti-vaccination seminar that does not give my boss the right to terminate me.   The exception to that is if they could provide direct evidence it is causing a conflict of interest with my work (such as I am getting kick backs for publishing research saying vaccines are bad).   If it does not interfere with my job then they do not have the right to terminate me over it. 

It's a vital part of my work that we disagree with each other at times.   That's how new ideas and research come into being.   If we all agreed we'd be too busy patting each other on the back to get anything done. 

Trump is on a witch hunt because climate change research is against HIS best interests.   The people who have a conflict of interest here are not the scientists doing the research it's TRUMP.   TRUMP directly benefits by having anything that could prove we are a substantial cause of global warming silenced.   Think of the boost he would get to the bottom line of all his companies if he could get rid of a lot of environmental regulations and shut up anything that disagrees with him.

Again this is what countries like China and Russia and North Korea do to their scientists.  They silence anyone who disagrees with them and could topple their agenda.

This is VERY dangerous ground for our president to be walking on.   The department of energy was right to tell him to F off.      Anyone who cheers at the thought of terminating people for not agreeing to tattle on their fellow workers should crack open a history textbook.  

It's McCarthy all over again only instead of "communists" replace it with "climate change scientist".

[verrip1]

Dec 13, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

As opposed to the idiot class who can't understand how the Constitution controls presidential elections?

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2016 13:30:10 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Dec 14, 2016 12:33:41 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Remember, AGW is an unproven theory.  The bolded also applies to these Dept of energy employees currently under the Obama administration.  Do they have a position/advancement in the department because of their stance in the belief in AGW.  We all know Obamas stance on the subject.  I only use "belief" because there is no general mention of advanced qualifications.

There is no proof in research.   There is either evidence for or evidence against.  Whoever "wins" tends to have the highest stack of peer reviewed reproducible evidence behind them.

That is not to say it is not infallible.   Science is slow and plodding for that very reason.   Nothing would get done if we constantly abandoned everything five seconds after something "disproved" it.

When you publish your research you are required to provide along with it any data that conflicts with your conclusions.   While you may not "believe in" or "agree" with something at the end of the day that doesn't matter if you cannot provide reproducible evidence (which means I need to be able to take your paper and run the experiment independently and obtain the same results).   That's what keeps us from becoming a theocracy or being ruled by popular opinion of the day.

It's not a perfect system because it is run by human beings and no system we create is perfect.

I also have a right to my own beliefs.  If I choose to attend an anti-vaccination seminar that does not give my boss the right to terminate me.   The exception to that is if they could provide direct evidence it is causing a conflict of interest with my work (such as I am getting kick backs for publishing research saying vaccines are bad).   If it does not interfere with my job then they do not have the right to terminate me over it. 

It's a vital part of my work that we disagree with each other at times.   That's how new ideas and research come into being.   If we all agreed we'd be too busy patting each other on the back to get anything done. 

Trump is on a witch hunt because climate change research is against HIS best interests.   The people who have a conflict of interest here are not the scientists doing the research it's TRUMP.   TRUMP directly benefits by having anything that could prove we are a substantial cause of global warming silenced.   Think of the boost he would get to the bottom line of all his companies if he could get rid of a lot of environmental regulations and shut up anything that disagrees with him.

Again this is what countries like China and Russia and North Korea do to their scientists.  They silence anyone who disagrees with them and could topple their agenda.

This is VERY dangerous ground for our president to be walking on.   The department of energy was right to tell him to F off.      Anyone who cheers at the thought of terminating people for not agreeing to tattle on their fellow workers should crack open a history textbook.  

It's McCarthy all over again only instead of "communists" replace it with "climate change scientist".

Gotta give this some  ...

[Deleted]

Dec 14, 2016 18:09:24 GMT -5 verrip1 said:

Dec 13, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

Not that easy to simply fire federal career employees without cause.
He (and the idiot class who voted for him) are about to get an education...

As opposed to the idiot class who can't understand how the Constitution controls presidential elections?

Have you actually read it? If the EC confirms Trump, the EC is broken.