Obama -vs- Reagan

[djAdvocate]

i am positing that the way conservatives and liberals think of Reagan is pretty much the opposite of how liberals and conservatives will think of Obama, and the net result will be that they will both be revered by a segment of the voting public for generations.

i bring as evidence the following.  first, when Reagan entered office, interest rates were 20% and UE was soaring.  Reagan presided over that collapse, the economy generally improved, and he got some HUGE things done that had been on the conservative agenda for at least a decade.  he was aided by communicating well (via teleprompter).

fast forward, when Obama entered office, the stock market was collapsing, and the economy was bleeding jobs at a rate not seen since the depression.  Obama presided over that collapse, the economy generally improved, and he got some HUGE things done that were on the liberal agenda for at least a decade.  he was aided by communicating well (via teleprompter).

these two presidents have been in lockstep on an approval basis for (18) months.  i think that Obama is going to finish his term with his best approval numbers since "the honeymoon period) 2009:

www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-job-approval-center.aspx

furthermore, i think they will both go down in history as above average presidents, albeit with high negatives from those that opposed their agenda(s).

opinions?

[djAdvocate]

oh, forgot to mention- Obama's RCP approval average hit a new post OBL Bounce high this morning: 52.7%

[Sam_2.0]

I don't remember Reagan, and it seems to me like the right has almost canonized the man. But I do think Obama will go down as one of our greater presidents in the course of our overall history. And I am willing to admit that even though I never voted for the man.

[busymom]

I graduated from college when Reagan was in office. I'm still not sure I've forgiven him for the fact that unemployment at that time was 10.8%, and it took both DH & I quite awhile to get ANY full-time work. He also did a lot to weaken unions (my Dad was a union man), and although I'm sure business owners didn't mind, it did a lot to weaken the middle class. Not a fan.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 17, 2016 12:21:00 GMT -5 busymom said:

I graduated from college when Reagan was in office. I'm still not sure I've forgiven him for the fact that unemployment at that time was 10.8%, and it took both DH & I quite awhile to get ANY full-time work. He also did a lot to weaken unions (my Dad was a union man), and although I'm sure business owners didn't mind, it did a lot to weaken the middle class. Not a fan.

neither is dondub.

my point is this> that Reagan is a HERO to the right (and there are good reasons for this).  the things that make him a hero to the right are often in DIRECT conflict with the interests of the left.  therefore, he is DEEPLY unpopular with the left.

the same can be said, in REVERSE, with Obama. 

the middle sees BOTH these men as "effective".  so, you get approval ratings of 50-60 for both, and mildly approving ratings by historians.

qed

[thyme4change]

I think both Reagan and Obama were good presidents. I think both of them made the country feel good. And when people feel good, they go to work, the invest in the market, they hire someone, and then everyone around them feels good, and it becomes a chain reaction.

Neither Hillary nor Trump is going to make us feel good. Trump will make us afraid. Hillary will make us uneasy, like going to a nudist beach with your grandparents. Maybe nothing terrible will happen, but it sure will be awkward and uncomfortable!

[busymom]

I'm trying to remember, djAdvocate...was Reagan the one who was always singing the praises of "trickle-down" economics?  I can tell you, only crumbs were trickling down. 

[djAdvocate]

Oct 17, 2016 12:32:31 GMT -5 busymom said:

I'm trying to remember, djAdvocate ...was Reagan the one who was always singing the praises of "trickle-down" economics?  I can tell you, only crumbs were trickling down. 

yep.  and he set us up for 30+ years of this crap.  even Obama seems to believe it. 

but fortunately, the jury is in on this one: it doesn't work.  so, it is just a matter of time before that fact works it's way into policy.  people who hold onto it will keep looking stupider over time.

[dondub]

What?

prorev.com/reagan.htm

[Lizard Queen]

Oct 17, 2016 12:25:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Oct 17, 2016 12:21:00 GMT -5 busymom said:

I graduated from college when Reagan was in office. I'm still not sure I've forgiven him for the fact that unemployment at that time was 10.8%, and it took both DH & I quite awhile to get ANY full-time work. He also did a lot to weaken unions (my Dad was a union man), and although I'm sure business owners didn't mind, it did a lot to weaken the middle class. Not a fan.

neither is dondub.

my point is this> that Reagan is a HERO to the right (and there are good reasons for this).  the things that make him a hero to the right are often in DIRECT conflict with the interests of the left.  therefore, he is DEEPLY unpopular with the left.

the same can be said, in REVERSE, with Obama. 

the middle sees BOTH these men as "effective".  so, you get approval ratings of 50-60 for both, and mildly approving ratings by historians.

qed

Overall, I agree, though I think the term herding cats is very applicable to the left, so it's hard for them to agree on anything. The right, on the other hand, stick to an idea come hell or highwater (exhibit A: Trump). So, I think there will be a loose consensus on the left as to Obama's legacy, while the right will mostly idolize and demonize the 2 in lockstep (though, will focus mostly on Hillary for demonization purposes if she's elected--that shit has been like a broken record for the last couple of decades).

As for me, I think Reagan cared, but screwed up some things (as far as I can remember). Same for Obama. Hoping we never get another W (or worse) for as long as I and my offspring live.

[dondub]

Tinkle Down Economics has rained a golden shower down on the peons for 35 years now. The end result is 99-1 where the 1 wins.

[thyme4change]

Oct 17, 2016 12:38:41 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Oct 17, 2016 12:27:47 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

...

Neither Hillary nor Trump is going to make us feel good. Trump will make us afraid. Hillary will make us uneasy, like going to a nudist beach with your grandparents. Maybe nothing terrible will happen, but it sure will be awkward and uncomfortable!

 

Can I use this as my signature?   Please      I'll give you full credit!

Go for it.

[Deleted]

I think you are right DJ.

In 200 years though I believe the history books will have more mention of Obama because he is the first African American president, he and HRC will probably be mentioned together as two in a row that broke barriers.

[kadee79]

Oct 17, 2016 12:42:13 GMT -5 dondub said:

What?

prorev.com/reagan.htm

Exactly! I lived in Ca. when he ran for governor...I wouldn't vote for him on a bet for that.  I lived elsewhere when he ran for President...I'd already had enough of his shenanigans and knew he wasn't what people thought.

I sure hope some of those who didn't live it will read this and see how much damage he actually did to this country!   And be sure to read all the way through.

[thyme4change]

Oct 17, 2016 12:49:04 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Oct 17, 2016 12:25:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

neither is dondub.

my point is this> that Reagan is a HERO to the right (and there are good reasons for this).  the things that make him a hero to the right are often in DIRECT conflict with the interests of the left.  therefore, he is DEEPLY unpopular with the left.

the same can be said, in REVERSE, with Obama. 

the middle sees BOTH these men as "effective".  so, you get approval ratings of 50-60 for both, and mildly approving ratings by historians.

qed

Overall, I agree, though I think the term herding cats is very applicable to the left, so it's hard for them to agree on anything. The right, on the other hand, stick to an idea come hell or highwater (exhibit A: Trump). So, I think there will be a loose consensus on the left as to Obama's legacy, while the right will mostly idolize and demonize the 2 in lockstep (though, will focus mostly on Hillary for demonization purposes if she's elected--that shit has been like a broken record for the last couple of decades).

As for me, I think Reagan cared, but screwed up some things (as far as I can remember). Same for Obama. Hoping we never get another W (or worse) for as long as I and my offspring live.

My sense is the GOP is more fractured than the left. There are some strange bedfellows that make up the 'base.' In my world, my hard-core right wingers have absolutely nothing in common and would never chose to spend any time together, and have drastically different ideologies and lives.

[buystoys]

I think it's too early to fully evaluate Obama's presidency, but I tend to agree with you that both will be considered memorable presidents.  Some of the current president's legacy will involve how the Fed unravels our current interest rate (potential) problem.  If things unravel shortly, I suspect most people will lay it at Obama's feet whether or not it's deserved.  If things roll out smoothly, I don't know that enough people will give him the full credit he would be due.

[Waffle]

I've seen similarities between Reagan and Obama for years.   When I hear/read of people who despise Obama,  I understand not because I agree with them, but because I remember how much I despised Reagan.   I'm still mad that they renamed a local highway after him.

They are both often praised for their oratory skills (listening to Reagan talk was worse than fingers on a blackboard for me).   I kept hearing lies in all of his speeches.