Is the Republican Party coming apart at the Seams?

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't know if the party is coming apart at the seams, but Mr. Trump sure appears to be. Those seams weren't strong to begin with, but they are ripping like crazy.

[Phoenix84]

No more so than the democrats.

People have stopped talking about it because of the impeding election, and the mainstream news media doesn't like reporting anything negative about democrats, but the primary between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton highlighted the schisim between the progressive democrats and the establishment/moderate democrats.

The truth is, Hillary would not have won if she didn't have the brand name of Clinton, and many democrats are aching to get someone far more progressive minded, a socialist, into the office.

Mark my words, the schism will reveal itself again in 4-8 years.

[Phoenix84]

And you better hope this isn't the end of the GOP.

That is, unless you want to become a one party state, like China.....

[Deleted]

It would be nice if all of this yielded having more than two parties with large representation in the federal government.

Have to imagine if that happened the Electoral College would go away as pretty much every presidential election would get kicked to the house because nobody could reach 270. 

A person can dream......

[dondub]

Trump will get pummeled by Hillary and the powers that be at the RNC will wipe the sweat off their various body parts, assay the damage, and move on much in the same way as they were pre-Trump.

[dezailoooooo]

Oct 11, 2016 13:46:38 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

In the aftermath of Paul Ryan's disavowal of Donald Trump yesterday the fracture in the GOP just got far, far, bigger. And louder.

WASHINGTON — Donald Trump all but declared war on the Republican establishment Tuesday, blasting House Speaker Paul Ryan for his criticism and vowing to campaign as he sees fit.

"it is so nice that the shackles have been taken off me and I can now fight for America the way I want to," Trump said during a morning tweet storm that targeted Ryan and other Republicans.

Later, the Republican presidential nominee tweeted: "Disloyal R's are far more difficult than Crooked Hillary. They come at you from all sides. They don’t know how to win — I will teach them!"

Trump's attacks on Ryan and other Republicans underscore a massive breach within the party, one that makes it even harder for the GOP to hold control of the Senate and perhaps the House, not to mention winning the presidency.

Trump went on:

"Our very weak and ineffective leader, Paul Ryan, had a bad conference call where his members went wild at his disloyalty," Trump tweeted Tuesday.

Ryan's office responded with a terse statement: "Paul Ryan is focusing the next month on defeating Democrats, and all Republicans running for office should probably do the same."

And on:

"Despite winning the second debate in a landslide (every poll), it is hard to do well when Paul Ryan and others give zero support!" Trump said as part of his Tuesday tweet storm.

Trump has also suggested that more tapes of him could still be coming, and that he is prepared to respond in kind.

"If they want to release more tapes saying inappropriate things, we'll continue to talk about Bill and Hillary Clinton doing inappropriate things," Trump said in Ambridge, Pa., Monday.

Some Republicans warn the growing civil war within the GOP will have ramifications well beyond the Nov. 8 election.

Rick Tyler, a former spokesman for Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz, defined the GOP split as one between "the establishment and some principled conservatives" against what he called the "Breitbart Wing" of the party, named for the conservative news website. Steve Bannon, a long-time Breitbart executive, is a top adviser to Trump and has been a frequent critic of the current Republican leadership, saying they have been ineffective in battling President Obama's administration, as well as the Clintons.

"The Trump campaign knows they are going to lose and are consolidating his base to create a lucrative post-election anti-Hillary organization," Tyler said. "That same organization will blame the establishment for the loss and attempt to take over the GOP from the RNC (Republican National Committee) down."

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-declares-war-on-establishment-republicans/ar-BBxihyE?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=spartanntp

Is this going to take down the GOP?

" to create a lucrative post-election anti-Hillary organization,"

What is hard to believe is that there are less of the GOP  then the other part and to split apart only seems to make it even weaker...The above line has already been done.."Tea Party..the Party of NO"...it seemed that the American public has disavowed those two scenarios..possible not....

Obama is emerging at the end of his eight years stronger then ever , no matter what the Donald claims...[does the man just feel the more times he tells a untruth the better the chance it will become the truth?]...All polls show he had won second debate..[wrong..not true..exact opposite]...If and a big if...the pubs do keep both houses...do the leaders of that party to continue as before and be the party of obstruction going to fly with it's members again....mid term elections come up very fast...if they continue as they have I believe Hillery will also come away very high in the popularity quotion too..

[dezailoooooo]

Oct 11, 2016 14:00:42 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

No more so than the democrats.

People have stopped talking about it because of the impeding election, and the mainstream news media doesn't like reporting anything negative about democrats, but the primary between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton highlighted the schisim between the progressive democrats and the establishment/moderate democrats.

The truth is, Hillary would not have won if she didn't have the brand name of Clinton, and many democrats are aching to get someone far more progressive minded, a socialist, into the office.

Mark my words, the schism will reveal itself again in 4-8 years.

There is no schism...you have two sides believing mostly the same way..one just more left leaning then the other..There are always some disagreements but nothing like the ones in the GOP..there there is a schism..think Grand Canyon..vs narrow brook...

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2016 13:49:54 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I don't know if the party is coming apart at the seams, but Mr. Trump sure appears to be. Those seams weren't strong to begin with, but they are ripping like crazy.

once again, an entirely predictable outcome.  Rubio and Kasich warned about it.  so did many others. 

yet here we are.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2016 14:00:42 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

No more so than the democrats.

People have stopped talking about it because of the impeding election, and the mainstream news media doesn't like reporting anything negative about democrats, but the primary between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton highlighted the schisim between the progressive democrats and the establishment/moderate democrats.

The truth is, Hillary would not have won if she didn't have the brand name of Clinton, and many democrats are aching to get someone far more progressive minded, a socialist, into the office.

Mark my words, the schism will reveal itself again in 4-8 years.

i am not going to argue with their "populism problem".  it exists.  but there is no "populist faction" in mainstream Democratic politics right now.  therefore, they have MUCH greater cohesion and solidarity than the GOP.

it would be wise to not underestimate that.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2016 14:03:11 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

And you better hope this isn't the end of the GOP.

That is, unless you want to become a one party state, like China.....

it won't be a one party state.  it will have one dominant party and a bunch of minority parties.  this would ensure that elections were won on a plurality basis for the forseeable future, and would change how congress works considerably.

i am not sure that is a bad thing.  i am inclined to think it isn't.

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2016 14:07:13 GMT -5 @aj said:

It would be nice if all of this yielded having more than two parties with large representation in the federal government.

Have to imagine if that happened the Electoral College would go away as pretty much every presidential election would get kicked to the house because nobody could reach 270. 

A person can dream......

if that were to happen, and the divisions ran down ballot, it is possible the House would not be able to determine outcome, either.

[Deleted]

I am a republican and I am hoping this is good thing.  The party needs to be rebuilt and expanded.  The country is becoming more diverse, less church going, and more tolerant.  The republican party has some good ideas, but they will never be heard, if they continue to fight the culture war.  Some other party will come along and take up the mantle of fiscal conservatism/small government. 

[bean29]

Oct 11, 2016 14:46:08 GMT -5 pooks said:

I am a republican and I am hoping this is good thing.  The party needs to be rebuilt and expanded.  The country is becoming more diverse, less church going, and more tolerant.  The republican party has some good ideas, but they will never be heard, if they continue to fight the culture war.  Some other party will come along and take up the mantle of fiscal conservatism/small government. 

We can only hope. 

[dondub]

I know the repos like to believe that they are the party of 'fiscal conservatism/small government, but guess what? Facts will show that is complete and utter BS. Starting with Reagan there isn't one shred of truth in that myth.

[Tennesseer]

deminmaine - He's still all yours.  


LePage: We need Trump to show 'authoritarian power'

Maine Gov. Paul LePage is still supporting Donald Trump because he wants him to "show some authoritarian power.”

LePage, who is known for his controversial comments, told a Maine radio station that the country needed Trump to take back the reins from what he described as "anarchy" under President Obama.

"Sometimes, I wonder that our Constitution is not only broken, but we need a Donald Trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law because we've had eight years of a president, he's an autocrat, he just does it on his own, he ignores Congress and every single day, we're slipping into anarchy," LePage said on Maine radio station WVOM; the audio was posted on CNN.

LePage: We need Trump to show 'authoritarian power'

[Tennesseer]

Trump's problem is no fleet of lawyers can win the presidency for him.  His lawyers cannot help him this time.  In the past, his lawyers have exhausted the resources of others who have sued him for services rendered and they either gave up or settle for pennies on the dollars owed to them.

Trump has never lost (in his mind).  And for the first time, Trumpe is either going to win the election simply by his own words or lose it by same.  Trump doesn't know how to handle a loss.  So he goes for a scorched earth approach in an attempt to win.

It should be interesting.

[Gardening Grandma]

Oct 11, 2016 15:32:57 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Oct 11, 2016 15:16:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

deminmaine - He's still all yours.  


LePage: We need Trump to show 'authoritarian power'

Maine Gov. Paul LePage is still supporting Donald Trump because he wants him to "show some authoritarian power.”

LePage, who is known for his controversial comments, told a Maine radio station that the country needed Trump to take back the reins from what he described as "anarchy" under President Obama.

"Sometimes, I wonder that our Constitution is not only broken, but we need a Donald Trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law because we've had eight years of a president, he's an autocrat, he just does it on his own, he ignores Congress and every single day, we're slipping into anarchy," LePage said on Maine radio station WVOM; the audio was posted on CNN.

LePage: We need Trump to show 'authoritarian power'

Yeah.... I know.  Don't get me started on our little nightmare in Augusta.  He's like ur own little Trump, but not nearly as well dressed, well spoken or intelligent.  He is rude, crude, boorish and obnoxious.  He was elected only by a minority, because our electorate was split with a third party contender.  He is an utter and complete asshole.

Hs one strength is supposed to be that he is supposed to be good for business, but he botched a plumb contract that we had with a Norwegian company for wind power generators, because he doesn't believe in alternatives to hydrocarbon energy.  He has hamstrung our healthcare companies and cost all business money with his refusal to accept exchange dollars from Washington, again for a political agenda.  In a state that desperately needs young workers he has sent incredibly negative messages to blacks, Hispanics and all foreign born people.  ("You shoot your enemy.  Right now people of color and Hispanics are the enemy, bringing drugs into the state." ) 

He can't work with the legislature, even though his party has a majority.  He is a complete and utter asshole.

Wow!   When is his term up?

[djAdvocate]

great discussion about this over at 538.  highly recommended:

fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-this-what-it-looks-like-when-a-party-falls-apart/?ex_cid=2016-forecast

there are some really funny quotes in there.  the two closest parallels are Watergate and the election of 1856.

[tallguy]

Oct 11, 2016 15:55:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

great discussion about this over at 538.  highly recommended:

fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-this-what-it-looks-like-when-a-party-falls-apart/?ex_cid=2016-forecast

there are some really funny quotes in there.  the two closest parallels are Watergate and the election of 1856.

"It’s just a flesh wound!"

Yeah, but instead of The Black Knight it looks like it will be more like the cow in the pilot of Under the Dome.  

[Gardening Grandma]

t looks like it will be more like the cow in the pilot of Under the Dome.


Ugh!  I didn't need a reminder of THAT visual.  Maybe Trump will form his own party....

[Lizard Queen]

I think the obvious alternative would be to build up the Libertarian party, but then, wherever would the social conservatives go?

[djAdvocate]

Oct 11, 2016 18:04:00 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

I think the obvious alternative would be to build up the Libertarian party, but then, wherever would the social conservatives go?

to the Republican Party, obviously.

[dezailoooooo]

Oct 11, 2016 14:03:11 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

And you better hope this isn't the end of the GOP.

That is, unless you want to become a one party state, like China.....

Well in some ways I agree with you though if it did become a one party State better a more liberal one , Democratic one, then a super conservative one , AReoublican, with most party members walking around like with a stick up.....

Actually was watching CNN  and they had on a Senate hopeful I believe from Az and he was carrying on that a Clinton win would be such a disaster...decades of...against constitution and when asked about how against constitution goes on about Clinton murdering 500,000 babies a year..meaning she is Pro Choice....As I am watching and listening , was thinking how I too am pro Choice and don't feel I am a murderer and in thinking about the constitution , and   I don't profess to be a expert here but don't remember the constitution make any comment one way or another about choice or no choice or abortions at all.

Actually personally I am not in favor of abortions..would love to see all fetuses carried to term..beleave in strong sex education starting early..grammer school up through senior year ..more involved sexual instruction as children get older ....but when it comes down to it ..birth control offered free for those in need..final choice is the female who is pregnant..not some possible Senator in Az or even myself...

[dezailoooooo]

Oct 11, 2016 14:07:04 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Oct 11, 2016 14:00:42 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

No more so than the democrats.

People have stopped talking about it because of the impeding election, and the mainstream news media doesn't like reporting anything negative about democrats, but the primary between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton highlighted the schisim between the progressive democrats and the establishment/moderate democrats.

The truth is, Hillary would not have won if she didn't have the brand name of Clinton, and many democrats are aching to get someone far more progressive minded, a socialist, into the office.

Mark my words, the schism will reveal itself again in 4-8 years.

I disagree. Many of the Hillary Democrats admire, or at least like, the Bern Democrats. Many of the Bern Dems are also very young, and will age out of some of their more socialist positions- especially since they were part of his agenda, not theirs necessarily. The Clintons will age out after this coming administration, and new people will come up. 

There will always be tensions in the Democratic party.  It is not ripping itself apart though, by any means.  In fact, there is as much unity within as I have seen in 40 years, even with the Bern factor.

demin is so correct here..you have to remember, the Democratic part includes those on the extreme left..[think Sanders..} all the way to middle looking right...that is a great inclusion and they discuss..they argue back and forth but for most and mostly they accept that there will be differences and accept..possible not in love with it, but accept that there will be differences .


Republicans..as much as they say they do, say they will..are unable to accept the differences...As said in another thread,,some leaders of the Republicans demand that all tenants of the party that they believe in have to be accepted..otherwise no acceptence and that is why it rarely represents all Americans..to unforgiving, unavble to accept the differences that make up our American pschi...

[dezailoooooo]

Oct 11, 2016 15:16:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

deminmaine - He's still all yours.  


LePage: We need Trump to show 'authoritarian power'

Maine Gov. Paul LePage is still supporting Donald Trump because he wants him to "show some authoritarian power.”

LePage, who is known for his controversial comments, told a Maine radio station that the country needed Trump to take back the reins from what he described as "anarchy" under President Obama.

"Sometimes, I wonder that our Constitution is not only broken, but we need a Donald Trump to show some authoritarian power in our country and bring back the rule of law because we've had eight years of a president, he's an autocrat, he just does it on his own, he ignores Congress and every single day, we're slipping into anarchy," LePage said on Maine radio station WVOM; the audio was posted on CNN.

LePage: We need Trump to show 'authoritarian power'

He ignored Congress because Congress ignored him..party of No on all things..proof right now on not even holding hearings on a moderate possible Supreme Justice..and as far as "anarchy" "autocrat"  Mr . Governor..that man u are dissing has a favorable rating of 55%..which is pretty damn high as these things are mentioned and after eight years in that chair..not so shabby in my book.

[dezailoooooo]

Oct 11, 2016 15:55:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

great discussion about this over at 538.  highly recommended:

fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-this-what-it-looks-like-when-a-party-falls-apart/?ex_cid=2016-forecast

there are some really funny quotes in there.  the two closest parallels are Watergate and the election of 1856.

your correct ..suggest others go take a look..liked a lot of what I read there..one particuler part ..the following..


" A Trump campaign spokesperson hinted the other day that they wanted their voters to vote Trump, but then screw over the down-ballot Republicans out of spite. I mean, that’s not a field-organizing thing you can do, but there might be some Republicans who get pissed with their senator for basically ceding the presidential race and take it out on him/her."

[happyhoix]

Oct 11, 2016 15:02:59 GMT -5 dondub said:

I know the repos like to believe that they are the party of 'fiscal conservatism/small government, but guess what? Facts will show that is complete and utter BS. Starting with Reagan there isn't one shred of truth in that myth.

That's the problem - they've gone too far from their strengths.

If they stepped back from their social conservatism and stuck to fiscal conservatism/national security/debt reduction issues they would pick up a lot of moderate dems/independents who are concerned about those kinds of things.

Around Reagan, the party started to tie itself to the religious far right and bogged down in the anti stuff - anti gay, anti abortion, anti non whites, anti non Judaea/Christians.

I would love to see the GOP split into the Trumpettes, with all their anti-everything platform, and the moderate GOP focused on fiscal conservatism. In time, the Trumpettes would die out, but a moderate GOP platform will continue to resonate with a lot of us.   

[Phoenix84]

DJ's quoted 538 discussion made a good point that it's hard to distinguish how much is due to a referendum on Trump's personality/issues and how much is a real ideological split in the party.

Personally, I think it's more of the former and less off the latter, but that's my opinion.

[Phoenix84]

Personally, I think the long term effects of Trump himself will be small.  Nixon resigned in 1974 and the republicans easily won in 1980.

I think the bigger problem with the GOP is their overall image, of which Trump plays a role.  The GOP has got to shed their image as a cultural club and start broadening their appeal.  Trump hasn't helped them do that.

If anything, I think their overall image problem is what really will hurt them in the long run.

[swamp]

Oct 11, 2016 18:04:00 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

I think the obvious alternative would be to build up the Libertarian party, but then, wherever would the social conservatives go?

back to their own bedroom and stay out of mine.