How to Buy (Buildable) Land?

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Some of you own land (Apple , Wisconsin Beth , Peace Of Mind , @patstab , etc.). 

DH and I are pondering whether it makes more sense for us to keep an eye out in the near future for a good piece of land (location, size, elevation, etc.) than to wait to buy a house in Maine in 10-15 years.  We have the general location picked out.  It would be nice to have land that we could then build on to meet our needs when we are ready to build.  In the meantime, like some of you do, we could camp on the property from time-to-time.  

How does one buy land?  Did you use a realtor or buy from the owner?  

How does one buy land and ensure that it is buildable?  Should we consult with a contractor or architect to see where the best building site is on a particular piece of land or to determine whether the land can accommodate a house of a particular size or scale?  Some of this relates to zoning, but some also relates to the land features, geology, etc.  Who can guide us in those sorts of evaluations?  Should we hire a builder to consult with us during the buying process and would one agree to do so if we won't be building for 10-15 years?  (We do NOT want to buy in a development.  We do NOT want to deal with an HOA -- fortunately, those are few and far between still in most of New England.  We are looking to buy just a single lot in a certain section of Maine.)

How does one buy land and ensure that there is potable drinking water/well capabilities on-site?  Obviously, as part of an offer, we would have testing done.  But, is the testing reliable or do we have to wait until we actually drill a well to find out how much potable water is under the surface?  Do we need divining rods?  

If the land is on water (stream, river, lake, ocean, etc.), how does one ensure access to the water and check to see whether the water is contaminated in some way (sadly, it is not uncommon for New England rivers and lakes to be contaminated from farming run-off or past industrial use (leather tanning, etc.))? 

Please speak slowly and use vocabulary appropriate for a pre-schooler.  

[mroped]

It might depend on the state/municipality rules.
Best is since you picked you general area to check with the local authorities in regards to requirements.
In Pa is state law that all land sold with the denomination "building lot" has to have a current percolating test/approval or if is in town ofcourse sewer line that could be connected to.
Lots out in the countryside have most of the time a minimum size established by the township. A minimum 1 acre is required in most cases. More is ofcourse better!

So once there is a perc test current then it is also required that you have acces to roads thru road frontage or right of way- lots typicaly called "flag lot".

If the land passed percolating test once than it is a guarantee that will pass in the future unless some major changes take place.
As far as water goes, that is a gamble- you might find good water at 100' bellow surface or at 500'. Difference is in how much are you willing to pay for good water in your home.
Even if you get a bit of sulfur or iron, there are filters and water treatment systems that can fix that. Again-how much?

Once you set on a piece of land then you have the deed restrictions and that could be a deal breaker. If you don't agree with the conditions then there is always next.

Best would be that you get in touch with a real estate agent and explain them what you want: size, location, price range etc. I'd suggest going with someone that is not a "name" already in the area. They will work harder for you trying to make a name for themselves.

[Deleted]

I bought the land I'm on about 5 years before I built on it.  I went contract for deed with the owner (farmer next door just sliced some of his land).  I had it put into two parcels.  A five acre and a 10 acre.  The 5 acre was paid off with the down payment to the farmer so that I could get the deed to that right away (you can't build on land that is on contract). 

I wasn't too worried about having good water because I've never heard of anyone around here having an issue with their wells, but I knew it would be spendy.  We're on the ridge and code is you have to go through the first aquifer and so many feet into the second.  My well is 650 feet deep.  I have other water issues though, but those were the fault of the contractors that built the house, it should have been up a good couple feet higher than it was.

I can't say I looked into much of anything else, I knew it would be buildable and it was right on a county road, so not far from power lines.  The co-op would go up to 200 feet with underground line for free and the LP company installed the tank and ran the lines for that for free too. 

[milee]

From the experiences of all my friends... it appears that unless you really know what you're doing (generally my builder friends), it's really easy to end up with remote land that has problems.  Raw land can be very tricky to assess and not having building experience or local knowledge makes it even more difficult to assess.

I can think of over a dozen friends who have ended up with vacation property type land that they later discovered had an expensive or even unsolvable issue - hard to get utilities, zoning, unknown legal requirements, since they didn't live in the area they hadn't heard about the new sewage treatment plant going in across the street etc - and taken a bath on selling it later.  And these weren't dumb people (well, maybe one of them is.)  And I can think of a few more that ended up with OK vacation property but discovered what a nightmare it was to build on remotely.  

Just my two cents, but financially and for peace of mind you'd be much better off just renting for the next ten years when you vacation and then buying a house when you're ready.  You don't know what you don't know and when buying property, it's the stuff you don't know that really gets you.  Some examples:

-  In some areas, it's all about the perc test, so you may be focused on that because you're familiar with it.  But my area's an example of the opposite issue.  The entire state is mostly sand, sometimes with a thin layer of loam, so it's rare to find an area that doesn't drain.  99% of land will "perc" with flying colors.  The problem is the water table can be extremely shallow underneath that sand.  There are places - not near a lake or other body of water either - where you dig down 2-3 feet and the hole fills with water.  Unless you're from this area, you might not think to look for that.  You also might not think to look for sinkholes, sinkhole activity or sinkhole indicators.  Do you know what the issues are that are local to Maine?  If not, you shouldn't be thinking about buying raw land.

-  You'll have a lot more trouble finding contractors and service people who will want to work with you not only because it's additional hassle for them, but because they won't gain as much in the way of reputation if they do good work as if they do similar work for a local.  That idea about choosing a newer realtor?  Sure, if you don't mind one who may or may not know all the gotchas with local building issues.  And any realtor will be less motivated to do good work for you because again, realtors make their money off the referral chain.  Living outside the community, they're not likely to get any referrals from you and more ominously, nobody will hear you scream if they screw up.  You're going to be incredibly dependent for local knowledge on people who won't have much incentive to give you great service, so you'll be hoping to stumble on the super honest, knowledgeable gems that can be hard enough to find even if you live in a community and have people to ask for referrals.

Can you get lucky and have knowledgeable, honest local people help you find a perfect property that you camp on for ten years and build your dream home?  Sure.  But IMHO you're a lot more likely to end up buying something that looks great on the surface but that you gradually discover over the years has some flaws that make it less than ideal.  Why take on that risk?  

[tractor]

One thing I learned in my previous life was to always check the zoning on adjoining parcels. As one poster alluded too, you want to make sure your ideal home site isn't adjacent to a future industrial/commercial use. Many counties have zoning information on their website. If all else fails you can contact the county equalization office and they should be able to tell you what the zoned uses are.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Thank you all for your replies.  

milee and tractor's posts speak to the unknowns I fear.  

To clarify further, the dream is to buy land in, or near to, a beach town, not in the Maine frontier.  The run up to the real estate bust saw a lot of developments with large lots started (roads/septic or sewer/power run into the development waiting for the houses to be built which were then never built).  Or single lots bought on spec and cleared but never built.  I don't want an HOA or to use a particular builder or to be isolated.  But, I do want 3 or more acres for privacy and space to do my own thing.  So, law rand would be a last option.  An existing house would be just above raw land on the list of options, but, for now and maybe even later, is cost-prohibitive.

Yes, I need to check zoning.  And, I am loosely aware of issues in the towns we are considering, but do need to start following the local news there more closely.  We've been renting in the preferred area every summer for at least 2 weeks for the past 19 years, so we aren't starting from scratch as far as local knowledge goes.  

The greatest unknowns are as Milee and Tractor mentioned:  naively buying land that isn't useable/workable/build able or that has some hidden problem on/in it.  For example, there is a 6 acre piece of land at the end of a cul de sac on Realtor.com that sounds perfect but it has been on the market for 890 days.  My Spidey sense is tingling and I need someone with the proper experience to tell me whether my Spidey sense is on target or tuned too tightly.  I believe there are realtors who specialize in selling land.  Maybe I should try and find one or two who also work as Buyer's brokers and talk to them?

[Chocolate Lover]

Also remember that not all building departments will enforce Zoning regulations or deed restrictions or HOA rules. Some just are strictly worried about the construction of said structure. (That's how the one in my area operates.)

[Peace Of Mind]

Jul 18, 2016 9:26:30 GMT -5 tractor said:

One thing I learned in my previous life was to always check the zoning on adjoining parcels. As one poster alluded too, you want to make sure your ideal home site isn't adjacent to a future industrial/commercial use. Many counties have zoning information on their website. If all else fails you can contact the county equalization office and they should be able to tell you what the zoned uses are.

Absolutely!  Had we not done that where we live now all the trees would be gone and we'd be backed up to a school!  And those poor souls paid a premium for the "heavily treed lot" that now has no trees at all. 

I will probably edit this post many times as I think of more things as we've purchased 4 properties without houses already on them - 2 which we built on.  One custom and one in a development by 2 builders.  Also - I may mention things that you already know about but other's reading might want to know.

First decide where you want to live.  That's one of the hardest parts since you can't predict who you will be or what you will want many years from now.  But we just drove around a lot looking at areas we thought we'd like.   Then we looked through those Real Estate Property magazines you find in grocery stores or in boxes where  newspapers are sold.  (Yes, they still exist around here).  You may also find a realtor in that area that you can check into to see if you'd want their help or not.  Just make sure you don't sign anything.  Here you don't have to.  You can have a realtor in every county until you decide on the one you like and can work with.  Make sure they are licensed for the counties you like so it won't matter where you buy.  I personally hired a real estate attorney that is a good friend because their realtor was a slime bag and was doing all kinds of gray area illegal things.

Once you find the property that you can afford  (that was always the trick for us since we love water front and we didn't win the lottery) talk to as many neighbors as you can.  You will be amazed what you will find out - both accurately and inaccurately.  Is there an HOA?  Minimum on S.F. you have to build? Only stick built house and do they allow trailers (you may not want them next door if you are concerned about your property values/resale), is there a minimum time frame that you have to build?   Can you put a shed or RV out there in the meantime or is that against county/city rules?   If on water:  Do they allow power boats/skiing or only canoes and row boats? 

Then go to the local city/county and find out every single thing you can on that area that's the truth.  You'll also want to know who used to own the property years ago?  Was it a business like a dry cleaners where the land is toxic and the water unusable, etc?  Well or septic?  Where can you locate it and what are the easements?  Easements!  Check utility, road, etc. easements.  Where you'd want the house located - can it be built there?   Is there a flood zone or is it designated conservation where you can only clear a tiny portion or none at all?   What can be added near you after you build that could affect your quality of life?  A side road to cut through the neighborhood?  Gigantic power grid/transformers? An industrial type business or ?     Drive miles up and down the roads to make sure those things don't already exist if you have a problem with them.  The smell can travel many miles if you get down wind of a place like that. 

Usually vacant land requires a significant amount down to get financing.  Here it's usually 50% but sometimes a developer will come in and hold the financing and only want 25% down (but usually with much higher interest rates).  Make sure there is no clause that they can call the loan at any time if you can't come up with the rest of the funds. 

Good luck and I hope you find some awesome property for a reasonable amount.  We love ours and it was worth the work we did.  So far we've not had any issues except the squatter that took over his adopted parents house when one died and the other had to be in assisted living and it went to foreclosure.  NO WAY to predict that unfortunately.  But he's gone now. 

[Apple]

Most stuff has been addressed... find out who owns adjacent land, zoning, etc.

One thing to check--are there any endangered species in the area?  In my area, there is some kind of rare squirrel, and if that is on the property, you won't be allowed to build (fortunately, not on/around my property).

Wells-- a former coworker had a nightmare, dug four dry wells.  Eventually he had someone come and "water witch" it, and they found that one of his wells would have water, but he needed to go deeper (I think he was already at 600 feet, and had to drill another hundred feet or so down).  I bought my property with the well already there, so a huge relief (mine is only 60 feet deep, and has the best sweet tasting water).  As for water witching, it does sound weird, but there are some people who can do it-- my gramma was one.  She apparently witched water for a lot of people in central Oregon, and they hit water every time.

[happyhoix]

The greatest unknowns are as Milee and Tractor mentioned: naively buying land that isn't useable/workable/build able or that has some hidden problem on/in it.

I wouldn't trust a realtor - they just want to make a sale so they can get a cut.

If you really want to ensure the land doesn't have hidden problems, you can get a Phase I environmental assessment done. If you talk to your local bank they can probably point you in the right direction to find someone who does this in your community (banks often require a phase 1 assessment on commercial properties before approving the loan to buy the property).

For a phase 1, the consultant will research all past property uses that took place there (for instance, if someone used to run a battery cracking business you want to know about that). If they discover, for instance, that someone ran a tannery there 100 years ago, they would go in and pull samples in the area where the tannery stood, to make sure there is no soil contamination. They can tell you if there were ever any underground storage tanks there. If there are any structures, they can test to see if they have asbestos, lead paint or other issues that would be costly to remediate. They should also be able to tell you if you might have potential contamination from a neighboring underground storage tank.

For the land use, you could contact your state environmental department and ask how you find out about things like set backs - in our state, you can't build anything within 50 feet of a water way, and the definition of what a 'water way' is is about to become more conservative. Someone in my town built a house too close to a stream and ended up having to pay a company to come in, pick up his house and move it 30 feet further back from the stream.

I would avoid any property that has an old landfill on it, even if it was a small one just for the home owner. Previously there were no solid waste rules and people buried everything- including stuff that leaks out into the ground water. Even if you dig up the old landfill area, it's hard to remediate groundwater, especially if what leaked is heavier than water.

And I would talk to a builder about practical things like the cost of running an electrical line, cable line, phone, etc out to your property. And do a perk test if you plan to use a septic system to make sure the ground is capable of letting the water drain away. Make sure the area is zoned residential (we almost bought a house next to an area that was zoned to allow anything - including chicken houses. We didn't buy it and sure enough, five years later, the neighbor put a couple chicken houses in next door to what would have been our home).

Actually, buying a lot in an existing subdivision would be waaay easier!

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'm late to the party on this.  I apologize but I knew it was going to be a lot of typing and I just can't do that on my phone. 

In dating, DH and I talked about the future.  It was important for both of us, for different reasons, to have vacation land, preferably with a house/cabin on it.  We didn't expect to have kids so we started looking even before we were married. 

In 2008, our DD was born.  DH started seriously looking at vacation land/houses that met both of our dreams around then.  We both caved on some things.  In 2009, when I was about 5-6 months pregnant with our DS, we made arrangements to walk a parcel of land being sold by a developer of sorts.  The lot was one of about 12 from a former field that had been sectioned off into lots roughly 1.5-1.75 acres, with roughly 100 feet of frontage on the Flowage.  We're at the top of a dam and the water backs up to cover about 650 acres. 

When we walked the land, we were predisposed to buy it.  We'd seen a bunch of photos, read the deed restrictions and did some research.  Every lot was guaranteed build-able based on the standards in effect the year we bought.  They'd done water tests as part of that guarantee. 

We had a list of questions that we answered to our satisfaction.  We bought at the damn near the bottom of the market.  Some of the lots went for $60K-$100K.  We paid $42K I think, which included a $1K balance in the farmer's co-op that held our mortgage.  Three years ago, we did a cash out refi on our house and paid off most of the land.  In Fall 2014, we made the last payment on it. 

Our usage of the land has been spotty.  There's no power, no structures and no water.  So it's camping with a chemical toilet and bringing all water in.  Cooking over a campfire, a camping stove or a grill.  Septic will start at $20K.  But we can build a structure and run power to it.  Something like a garage or shed. 

However, the lot next door is up for sale.  So I want to make an offer on it.  Our lot is oddly shaped and has a tangle of trees near the shoreline.  We want to keep the trees as they're a nice buffer between the neighbors and us.  Plus a source of firewood.  However, this doesn't leave us with an easy access to the shoreline as the trees are about 5 feet LOWER than the embankment/shoreline.  The lot next door gives us easier access to the shore.  So we're contemplating things.  There are 2 other lots for sale at this time too so I think we're ok if we take a bit of time to think.  Usually the lots take a long time to see.  They may have priced this one for a fast sale though. 

We bought from a real estate agent who had a relationship with the developer.  The Flowage is part of a major river system in my state.  We have shoreline so my questions to the real estate agent were on flooding and right-of-way access because this is also near a portage for canoes.  Plus people fish there.  Sadly, we've got a high level of trespassing by people who fish.  I need to check into water access rights because we'd like to cut that off.  DH has visions of liability if someone gets hurt. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 20, 2016 8:57:08 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

People have already given some really good answers, so I'll just say Welcome to Maine!

Maine is just lovely.  We honeymooned there and just drove around the state, stopping wherever we felt like it.  Plus windjammers! 

[weltschmerz]

However, the lot next door is up for sale. So I want to make an offer on it. Our lot is oddly shaped and has a tangle of trees near the shoreline. We want to keep the trees as they're a nice buffer between the neighbors and us. Plus a source of firewood. However, this doesn't leave us with an easy access to the shoreline as the trees are about 5 feet LOWER than the embankment/shoreline. The lot next door gives us easier access to the shore. So we're contemplating things

Where I have a cottage, you're absolutely not allowed to cut anything down near the shoreline, or alter it. If it's a weedy marsh, you can't chop it down and fill it with sand. Things live in there, and the ecosystem must be preserved.

[weltschmerz]

Plus, the marsh grasses filter out a lot of the pollutants that can end up in the lake.