AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 12, 2016 23:27:56 GMT -5
Sometimes bankruptcy is unavoidable, and that is what provisions for it are there for. Perhaps you should have declared bankruptcy, I have no idea. However you are more experienced now. There should be no "next time" for you.
I know of what I speak. The 2008 downturn nearly got us. And by nearly got, I don't mean bankruptcy. I mean things were getting very tight, money was running low, and the future did not look bright. I put the physical property up for sale and started to put in place plans for an orderly exit to business. When we got an offer on the property it was so low as to make me sick. But it would have been adequate to cover the expenses required. I would have closed my doors whole, with all of my vendors and employees paid, and even a little jingle in my pocket- and certainly no out of pocket expense.
Luckily, it did not come to that. In the proverbial nick of time I landed a couple of nice contracts, rejected the prospective buyers lowball offer and kept on truckin'. But it was close. And my point is- it did not require bankruptcy- I could see the writing on the wall and make plans. Many business bankruptcies (for small businesses anyway) occur because people stay in it to long, and they are playing with other people's money. Not cool.
Anyway, I agree with you on personal guarantees and being tied to the shop like an anchor. I don't do it either. I made a decision long ago that my house was mine (or my wife's ) and that I was not going to be one of those rags to riches to rags stories. That does not require screwing over other people either.
BTW, I rejected a half million dollar contract a few months ago because it didn't smell right. As I wrote above, most people we deal with are quite ethical- I believe most businessmen are. But the few that aren't are snakes- legal crooks- and it is best to just avoid them in the first place.
Which is why I would NOT enter into contract with one Donald J. Trump.
i once did a deal with this guy named J. D(*d)%. he was an utter shark. he screwed me down to basically zero profit on the job then took my product, keystoned it, sold it to his customer, and then, when his customer had trouble, he refused to service it. i refused to do business with that SOB ever again. later i found out that he f(*ked his wife over, and all of his employees when he sold the business. scumbag to the end. I suppose we're supposed to read into this that Trump is J. D(*d)% rather than you projecting onto Trump your own personal experiences. Your arguments have no credibility with me. You persistently argue on these forums that you are a Republican, yet you always find a reason to support the Democrat, and if not outright support- do as you've done of late and say that Hillary is not "as bad as" Trump. To not see that she's far worse- way worse- is simply not the judgment of a Republican. And look- I don't care who you vote for. I don't care if you don't vote at all. I don't care if you vote for Hillary. But don't expect to piss on my head and tell me it's raining. You're a Democrat. Fine. Getting to the main point, there are two things that, in spite of my reservations about Trump, simply defy explanation- actually there are three: 1. Trump passes one of my key tests that very few pass: he's punctual, or at least that is his reputation. 2. Trump's family is not a bloody disaster area. Someone like Ivanka could easily be another gad about Paris Hilton, but she is not. Nor, btw, are Eric, Don Jr., and Tiffany-- though he did not have much of a hand in the rearing of Tiffany. 3. Almost without exception, everyone that's had any sort of relationship with Trump at all raves about him. There are few, if any complainers. A handful of contractors that got stiffed by a company Trump had no management control over simply don't count-- and in fact, Trump wrote a handful of sizable personal checks to many of the people on the projects as legend tells us. Check he didn't have to write. And I do have a personal relationship with someone that worked with Trump. He was not her first pick, but as a Republican- and look, if you're not a Republican- you weren't going to vote for Cruz, or Kasich, or Rubio, or fill in the blank so whatever- she says there's nothing to worry about with Trump. He's gotta slug it out, but once elected you're going to see he's a great manager, he's a pragmatist- he's going to get shit done. The wall is classic Art of the Deal, by the way-- I've enjoyed watching it. Trump points out the progress on the wall with Vincente Fox actually dissecting the negotiation and laying his technique bare: 2:08:25
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jun 13, 2016 5:03:07 GMT -5
GC is a general contractor, and deminmaine would likely have been a subcontractor to the GC on the project. Most GCs are unrelated to government.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 13, 2016 8:31:06 GMT -5
I find it frightening that this guys idea of negotiations is to stiff the other party. Reneging on US debt will trash our economy. Yeah. You're probably right. We should go back to the idea of debtor's prison. I'm for personal responsibility. A borrower doesn't have fiduciary. A lender does. Obviously, these lenders thought it a good risk. Probably because like the entire planet, they didn't see 2009 coming. Lenders still regard Trump's companies a good risk. There are a LOT of things I don't like about Donald Trump, but I'll defend him to the death on bankruptcies. I should have done it myself a LOOOOONG time ago. I'd have been out of debt in 90 days instead of 7 years of two jobs. They got me once. Never again. I'm not going to stand there like an idiot holding the bag because of an economic downturn or anything else. Next time I will definitely be "using the laws of the country" and f*** 'em. I never said there should be debtor's prison. Stop with the hystrionics.
There is a huge difference between governmental and private negotiations. I don't feel bad for the lenders and contractors who got stiffed by Trump because that is his track record, and they were willing to take the gamble.
However, if he were to implement the same theory in negotiations in governmental policy, it would be catastrophic for our economy. Our economy is based on the US being a highly rated credit risk.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 13, 2016 13:14:35 GMT -5
I find it frightening that this guys idea of negotiations is to stiff the other party. Reneging on US debt will trash our economy. the USSR did that. we are following them down the rabbit hole into bankruptcy, chaos, and neofascism. makes sense, having followed them into Afghanistan to start with. this is a well trodden path.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 13, 2016 13:19:44 GMT -5
i once did a deal with this guy named J. D(*d)%. he was an utter shark. he screwed me down to basically zero profit on the job then took my product, keystoned it, sold it to his customer, and then, when his customer had trouble, he refused to service it. i refused to do business with that SOB ever again. later i found out that he f(*ked his wife over, and all of his employees when he sold the business. scumbag to the end. I suppose we're supposed to read into this that Trump is J. D(*d)% rather than you projecting onto Trump your own personal experiences. not at all. my point was just this: once you do business with a scumbag, you never want to deal with one again. i have no idea whether Trump is a scumbag or not, but i could be forgiven for having my suspicions. (litany of personal bullshit deleted, per dj policy)Getting to the main point, there are two things that, in spite of my reservations about Trump, simply defy explanation- actually there are three: 1. Trump passes one of my key tests that very few pass: he's punctual, or at least that is his reputation. 2. Trump's family is not a bloody disaster area. Someone like Ivanka could easily be another gad about Paris Hilton, but she is not. Nor, btw, are Eric, Don Jr., and Tiffany-- though he did not have much of a hand in the rearing of Tiffany. 3. Almost without exception, everyone that's had any sort of relationship with Trump at all raves about him. There are few, if any complainers. A handful of contractors that got stiffed by a company Trump had no management control over simply don't count-- and in fact, Trump wrote a handful of sizable personal checks to many of the people on the projects as legend tells us. Check he didn't have to write. And I do have a personal relationship with someone that worked with Trump. He was not her first pick, but as a Republican- and look, if you're not a Republican- you weren't going to vote for Cruz, or Kasich, or Rubio, or fill in the blank so whatever- she says there's nothing to worry about with Trump. He's gotta slug it out, but once elected you're going to see he's a great manager, he's a pragmatist- he's going to get shit done. The wall is classic Art of the Deal, by the way-- I've enjoyed watching it. Trump points out the progress on the wall with Vincente Fox actually dissecting the negotiation and laying his technique bare: 2:08:25 thanks for sharing your bias. it has been duly noted.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 13, 2016 17:39:41 GMT -5
I suppose we're supposed to read into this that Trump is J. D(*d)% rather than you projecting onto Trump your own personal experiences. not at all. my point was just this: once you do business with a scumbag, you never want to deal with one again. i have no idea whether Trump is a scumbag or not, but i could be forgiven for having my suspicions. (litany of personal bullshit deleted, per dj policy)Getting to the main point, there are two things that, in spite of my reservations about Trump, simply defy explanation- actually there are three: 1. Trump passes one of my key tests that very few pass: he's punctual, or at least that is his reputation. The guy is on time? Damning with faint praise there. 2. Trump's family is not a bloody disaster area. Someone like Ivanka could easily be another gad about Paris Hilton, but she is not. Nor, btw, are Eric, Don Jr., and Tiffany-- though he did not have much of a hand in the rearing of Tiffany. You think Trump had much of a hand in raising the other kids? How quaint. They got raised by nannys and boarding schools, just like he did. 3. Almost without exception, everyone that's had any sort of relationship with Trump at all raves about him. There are few, if any complainers. A handful of contractors that got stiffed by a company Trump had no management control over simply don't count-- and in fact, Trump wrote a handful of sizable personal checks to many of the people on the projects as legend tells us. Check he didn't have to write. Made up bullshit. He's got thousands of cases against him in court, for everything from shorting his invoices to them to withholding wages. Just ask all the different people who filed cases against him for Trump University how they feel about him. And I do have a personal relationship with someone that worked with Trump. He was not her first pick, but as a Republican- and look, if you're not a Republican- you weren't going to vote for Cruz, or Kasich, or Rubio, or fill in the blank so whatever- she says there's nothing to worry about with Trump. He's gotta slug it out, but once elected you're going to see he's a great manager, he's a pragmatist- he's going to get shit done. I have no doubt he's a great manager and a pragmatist and can get shit done. The problem I have with him is that he will get his own shit done. He'll drop all the bullshit about the wonderful wall and kicking all the Muslims out the moment he gets elected - that was all just 'Art of the Deal' bullshit anyway - and he'll spend his time trying to get laws passed that benefit him and his business and the rest of the 1%. After all, what other GOP candidate is so focused on his personal business empire that they use their media time as a bully pulpit to verbally harass a judge who is sitting on case where Trump is being sued??Keep in mind that Hitler and Stalin were both able to get shit done. Mussolini got the trains to run on time. That alone doesn't make a great leader. The wall is classic Art of the Deal, by the way-- I've enjoyed watching it. Trump points out the progress on the wall with Vincente Fox actually dissecting the negotiation and laying his technique bare: 2:08:25 thanks for sharing your bias. it has been duly noted.
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