Hot Water Baseboard Issues

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I have an oil-fired, hot-water baseboard, heating system.[There are 4 zones.

The furnace is running. I have oil. But the hot water is not getting to the second floor. The baseboards up there are cool and we realize that we didn't hear our usual, comforting, clanging and rushing last night in our bedroom as the hot water moves through the system.

The thermostat says the temperature on the second floor is 66 but there is no way. DH changed the batteries in the thermostat as a shot at troubleshooting.

Any ideas what else might be causing the lack of heat on the second floor?

[mroped]

A closed valve maybe?
Raise the temperature on the thermostat and see if it picks up.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Feb 16, 2016 0:40:41 GMT -5 mroped said:

A closed valve maybe?
Raise the temperature on the thermostat and see if it picks up.

We did -- we bumped it up to 72 and no change in the pipes -- still cool.

[lund]

Our old European system needed to have the accumulated gas/air emptied out of the upper level radiators.
The radiators had a valve for it, and we walked around with a bowl and the valve "key" airing them one by one.
The valves hissed and spat.
The symptoms of it being time for "airing" was first a lot of sounds (clucking, clanging, rushing) and then cold radiators upstairs.
The air accumulated in the highest points and "clogged" the pipe.
Airing the upper floor radiators was often sufficient, since gas in water rises.
Does your system have needs like that?

[mroped]

Very few homes in US have that anymore lund!
That happens typicaly when you have cast iron radiators and the system is closed shot.

Maybe you should check the pump designated for that zone. It might be a bad pump or just simply turned off?

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Feb 16, 2016 1:48:07 GMT -5 lund said:

Our old European system needed to have the accumulated gas/air emptied out of the upper level radiators.
The radiators had a valve for it, and we walked around with a bowl and the valve "key" airing them one by one.
The valves hissed and spat.
The symptoms of it being time for "airing" was first a lot of sounds (clucking, clanging, rushing) and then cold radiators upstairs.
The air accumulated in the highest points and "clogged" the pipe.
Airing the upper floor radiators was often sufficient, since gas in water rises.
Does your system have needs like that?

I grew up in a 100 year old house (then -- now it's 150 years old) with a system like that -- memories...:-)


If there are valves to "leak", they are hidden in the system.

I'm calling the oil company that services our system this morning.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Feb 16, 2016 8:03:49 GMT -5 mroped said:

Very few homes in US have that anymore lund!
That happens typicaly when you have cast iron radiators and the system is closed shot.

Maybe you should check the pump designated for that zone. It might be a bad pump or just simply turned off?

The pressure on the gauge on the furnace is within "normal" range from what Google said.

I'm calling for service this morning. Fortunately, we went from -13 yesterday morning to 38 degrees right now--keeping all of the doors in the bedrooms and on the first floor open allowed the heat to keep the bedrooms comfortable last night.

Thanks for the ideas, MrOped and Lund!!

[ArchietheDragon]

So i have no ideas, but I wanted to add my story.  We have a hot water closed cast iron radiator system.   We have one radiator that doesn't get hot.   It has a value to bleed the air out of the system, and we have bleed out the air and cups and cups of water.    So we know the radiator is getting water, but not hot water.   We only have one zone.  So unless that one radiator was hooked up to a different pipe, or zone, I am stumped. It gets water, but not hot water.   Where is that water coming from?  It is a mystery.   But a mystery that I have lived with for 8 years, so probably not going  to get solved any time soon.  

[olderburgher]

Lund There are more of the systems you describe still around then some folks may think. We have one and have been toasty all winter. They may not be common in newer homes but are common in older ones.

[MarleyKeezy78]

We have our baseboard heating system flushed every couple years to get all the air out. I always worry that the minerals in the water will some how collect and block up the pipes somewhere but so far that hasn't happened.

[mroped]

Older homes have or had at some point cast iron radiators.
Over the years they have slowly been changed to copper pipes with aluminum fins.
Are there still some cast radiators? Sure but typicaly, on a remodel or even better on a complete gut out remodel, owners without knowing, replace the old radiators on the belief that the new ones are more efficient which is a crock if you ask me!

Archie, did you try chasing the pipes to that specific radiator?
It might be that on a junction they downsized the line thus reducing the feed.
Or maybe the radiator is at the end of the line and the heat loss along the way is too great to make it to that specific radiator.

[ArchietheDragon]

Feb 16, 2016 10:05:11 GMT -5 mroped said:

Older homes have or had at some point cast iron radiators.
Over the years they have slowly been changed to copper pipes with aluminum fins.
Are there still some cast radiators? Sure but typicaly, on a remodel or even better on a complete gut out remodel, owners without knowing, replace the old radiators on the belief that the new ones are more efficient which is a crock if you ask me!

Archie, did you try chasing the pipes to that specific radiator?
It might be that on a junction they downsized the line thus reducing the feed.
Or maybe the radiator is at the end of the line and the heat loss along the way is too great to make it to that specific radiator.

I haven't chased the pipes.   It is a first floor radiator, so I can't imagine it is at the end of the line, but strangers things have probably happened in older homes.     Interesting thought  a reduced feed...   Maybe I will try to take a look. 

[teen persuasion]

Zone valve.

The zone valve controls the hot water thru the pipes.  We've had to replace 2 so far the past 2 years.  Honeywell ones have a known defect where they quit working.

Short term, there is a lever on the back that you can manually open to allow water thru.  Unfortunately, it may reset each time the thermostat calls for heat.

The problem may be either the motor, the valve itself, or the controller.  Typically they will just replace the motorhead/controller, unless it is the actual valve that's shot.  Motorhead/controller is easy, just wiring.  Valve replacement involves plumbing, draining pipes.

[Tiny]

Feb 16, 2016 8:03:49 GMT -5 mroped said:

Very few homes in US have that anymore lund!
That happens typicaly when you have cast iron radiators and the system is closed shot.

Maybe you should check the pump designated for that zone. It might be a bad pump or just simply turned off?

I like this...

 

In my neck of the woods, there's lots of houses with old cast iron radiators and some that have been upgraded (while keeping the cast iron radiators) and some that have been upgraded to the hot water baseboard heat.     Natural gas fired (not oil) but I suspect that doesn't make much of a difference in how the overall system works).

I'd check the pump too.  

(Haven't yet bought an uninhabitable house with hot water heat  - but looked at/considered many of them,  and had to  discuss/needed to learn how the system(s) work to help determine the cost of repairs and or how to deal with the potential (or obvious) burst pipes, etc.)

[teen persuasion]

Here is a link to show you what the zone valve looks like, and the lever to manually open the valve Honeywell zone valve 

The lever is in the slot at the bottom of the end shown.  Push it back to the other side of the slot.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Being in New England, we faithfully have our heating system tuned up every Fall including bleeding the lines. Around here, no one with any sense lets the heating system go unmonitored.

Update: I went upstairs an hour ago to find the baseboards hot and the rooms toasty warm (we had cranked the thermostat to try and get the heat to kick on).

I kept the repair appointment, though and the
repair guy just left. He thinks it was a frozen (copper) zone pipe that melted on its own without any issue. He showed me where to put some insulation to prevent the problem. Everything else checks out just fine. He showed me how to bypass the valves and we discussed proper pressure, etc. He'll
come back at the beginning of next week to add anti-freeze to the system (they need to calculate how much I need). He was REALLY helpful. Poor guy has had 37 calls since Sunday, mostly for frozen pipes. He looked spent. He said he'll rest during the summer. ;-)

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Feb 16, 2016 13:03:26 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Here is a link to show you what the zone valve looks like, and the lever to manually open the valve Honeywell zone valve 

The lever is in the slot at the bottom of the end shown.  Push it back to the other side of the slot.

Thanks, Teen!! I had the repair guy show me how to do it on my system.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

This has been an interesting discussion.

GRG I'm glad things worked out.

I don't have zone valves. My system was installed in 1950. I have 3 circulator pumps. One for each zone which is controlled by one of three thermostats.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Feb 16, 2016 16:23:30 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

This has been an interesting discussion.

GRG I'm glad things worked out.

I don't have zone valves. My system was installed in 1950. I have 3 circulator pumps. One for each zone which is controlled by one of three thermostats.

It is interesting, Ken, to see all of the variations on a theme.  And then there are forced hot air systems -- a whole different animal altogether.  

I have one circulator for 4 valves, LOL.  The house is 91 years old.  The heating system is probably 40 years old (?) although the furnace itself is about 10 years old.

As long as it is reasonably efficient and keeps me from freezing to death...

[teen persuasion]

Feb 16, 2016 14:35:52 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Being in New England, we faithfully have our heating system tuned up every Fall including bleeding the lines. Around here, no one with any sense lets the heating system go unmonitored.

Update: I went upstairs an hour ago to find the baseboards hot and the rooms toasty warm (we had cranked the thermostat to try and get the heat to kick on).

I kept the repair appointment, though and the
repair guy just left. He thinks it was a frozen (copper) zone pipe that melted on its own without any issue. He showed me where to put some insulation to prevent the problem. Everything else checks out just fine. He showed me how to bypass the valves and we discussed proper pressure, etc. He'll
come back at the beginning of next week to add anti-freeze to the system (they need to calculate how much I need). He was REALLY helpful. Poor guy has had 37 calls since Sunday, mostly for frozen pipes. He looked spent. He said he'll rest during the summer. ;-)

Curious about the anti-freeze - are you saying you have anti-freeze and it froze (and need to add more), or you are switching to anti-freeze?  We've got water in our system; it is connected to a waterline and can add water as needed if volume is too low.

Just wondering about pros and cons of each.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Feb 17, 2016 9:44:03 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

Feb 16, 2016 14:35:52 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Being in New England, we faithfully have our heating system tuned up every Fall including bleeding the lines. Around here, no one with any sense lets the heating system go unmonitored.

Update: I went upstairs an hour ago to find the baseboards hot and the rooms toasty warm (we had cranked the thermostat to try and get the heat to kick on).

I kept the repair appointment, though and the
repair guy just left. He thinks it was a frozen (copper) zone pipe that melted on its own without any issue. He showed me where to put some insulation to prevent the problem. Everything else checks out just fine. He showed me how to bypass the valves and we discussed proper pressure, etc. He'll
come back at the beginning of next week to add anti-freeze to the system (they need to calculate how much I need). He was REALLY helpful. Poor guy has had 37 calls since Sunday, mostly for frozen pipes. He looked spent. He said he'll rest during the summer. ;-)

Curious about the anti-freeze - are you saying you have anti-freeze and it froze (and need to add more), or you are switching to anti-freeze?  We've got water in our system; it is connected to a waterline and can add water as needed if volume is too low.

Just wondering about pros and cons of each.

We currently have water in the system.

Repair guy says they can replace the water with a non-toxic anti-freeze so that if the heat goes out while we are away, the pipes won't freeze.  

We don't go away for long stretches in the winter, but enough that this seems like an attractive option.  Waiting to see the price estimate.

[973beachbum]

We used to have a problem with a water pipe freezing when it got real cold.  I want to say it only froze when it got to like ten degrees.  It was a normal water pipe but was the only one totally on an outside wall.  We spent a few years having it freeze and having to run the water when it got cold so it wouldn't freeze till I got an idea.

I got a heat lamp bulb that they use to put heat on animals so they don't freeze.   I saw it being used on baby chicks at a farm store.  Don't laugh we have them in NJ.   So I got an outlet and put in the red bulb and aimed it at the pipes in the wall.  It didn't cost much to run even though it ran from Christmas till March.  It didn't heat the area up much but since it never happened again it raised the temp enough.

Just a thought.