Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 23, 2014 14:15:58 GMT -5
Opti - custom fitting the resumes is great. I'm glad that's landing you more interviews, but now you're having trouble in the interviews. I get it. My best advice is to do your research on the organization, and, if it is a large one, like universities, the department you are applying to. That way, when they ask you why you want to work there, you can give a specific answer. For example, the University Administrator position I currently have in the pipeline. It is for Human Centered Design and Engineering. Ever hear of that department before? Probably not. Why did I apply? It's an administrator job at the university, plain and simple, but that's not the answer they want to hear. So I spent time on the department's website. I looked at their current projects and am able to point to some of those that I find fascinating when I'm asked why I want to work in that department. In addition, know your answers to standard interview questions, like your strengths and weaknesses. And when asked your weaknesses, don't try to make it sound like you're disguising a strength as a weakness- ie I'm just such a perfectionist... It's annoying. As an interviewer I hated that (and I know plenty others that did, too). None of us is perfect, we have weaknesses, and it's important to be able to admit to ourselves what they are. But since no one wants to sound weak in an interview, what you do instead of trying to make your weakness a strength, follow up your statement about your weakness with the skills you have developed to mitigate it. This shows that not only are you aware of your own weaknesses in an interview, but also in your work, and that you have personal processes in place to deal with them. For example, I know I can get so caught up in the details that I miss the big picture, and even as an analyst, that's a problem. So when I feel like I'm slipping into the "every detail must be perfect" stage or notice that something I'm working on is so detailed it's stopped making sense, I have learned to step back and talk over what I am doing with a trusted colleague. Sometimes I get a second expert opinion, and sometimes just having to explain it to someone who doesn't know what I'm doing can pull me back to the appropriate level. Beyond that, just try to get comfortable interviewing. It is difficult. I KNOW how much my interviewing skills have increased since I first got my MBA in 2008. Interviewing is a skill. And it's a people skill that can be very difficult for more introverted people. I know so many people who would just prefer you give them a test. Eye contact, nod, use body language to show interest (no crossing your arms over your chest- which is my hardest thing), and try to make a connection with the interviewer. As for Craigslist jobs, if they direct you to a website, applying within 3 days is fine- you're almost certainly going through an applicant tracking system that handles things for them. But if they are the jobs where you apply to their craigslist address, I would try and apply to those same day, next day at the latest, because they are manually having to go through all the resumes (and they are likely getting 300+). At some point, once they have enough good candidates, they'll just stop. I think its a fit problem plus a perception problem with employers. I don't try to hide that I am intelligent and think fast. This seems to make some folk uncomfortable so it appears they look for people *they* think will be happier in the job.
Sometimes I do too much research and many times I am not picking up on what they aren't saying or should have said until after the interview is over.
I need to be a better mind reader of interviewers and frankly lucky. Currently waiting on an interview call originally schedlue
Optimist, what do you mean you think fast? Is that another way of saying that you bounce from one topic to another without much transition? Look, I don't know you in real life, and I say with with nothing but positive intentions, but you sometimes come off (in posts) like someone's kooky aunt. Horoscopes, "intention work" (which I had to google), etc. I'm not saying you don't have a right to believe in those things, but they are not entirely mainstream, and do have a negative connotation among many people, i.e., people who believe in such things are scattered or weird and would really be better off working at the new age hippy store because I really don't want them to try to heal me with crystals next time I have a cold. If your "thinking fast" comes off like being scattered, and you put forward any of the new-age vibe you do here, I could see why many corporate employers would see that as "not a fit." Please know that I am not trying to criticize, but perhaps provide a little more perspective on what may be worrying people about getting you on board. I'm crap at interviews, so I know how it feels to get to that point, know you could do the job and do it well, and then be shown the door because you didn't make a good impression at the interview.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 23, 2014 14:19:32 GMT -5
Any updates?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 14:21:06 GMT -5
Woo Hoo! Just had a good phone interview for the 7 to 8 week job in Iowa.
Now to sow the ground at work for a temp leave of absence if it comes through.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 14:24:37 GMT -5
Think of it like shopping for microprocessors for your PC. I am always in the fastest group. I've met so far only two people who have that speed. Both also highly intelligent. One was the wunderkid of Pharma in college that year.
Or, I am a 78 RPM record in a 33 RPM world.
(I bet most of the really good race car drivers likely think faster than average too.)
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 14:25:43 GMT -5
No.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 23, 2014 14:32:08 GMT -5
Think of it like shopping for microprocessors for your PC. I am always in the fastest group. I've met so far only two people who have that speed. Both also highly intelligent. One was the wunderkid of Pharma in college that year.
Or, I am a 78 RPM record in a 33 RPM world.
(I bet most of the really good race car drivers likely think faster than average too.)
It's also possible that employers aren't impressed by someone whose phrasing might come off as arrogant and appears to think they're better than the others they'd be working with.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 23, 2014 14:32:18 GMT -5
Are you sure? In your post above you go from microprocessors->wunderkinds->records->racecar drivers. And you still don't manage to answer the question in a way that I, as the question asker, understand. So you might want to reevaluate that answer. If it's not the "scattered"-ness (which again, I debate based even on your answer to the question), what is it about your "thinking fast" and how it manifests that people may find disconcerting or penalize you for?
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Sept 23, 2014 14:42:00 GMT -5
Think of it like shopping for microprocessors for your PC. I am always in the fastest group. I've met so far only two people who have that speed. Both also highly intelligent. One was the wunderkid of Pharma in college that year.
Or, I am a 78 RPM record in a 33 RPM world.
(I bet most of the really good race car drivers likely think faster than average too.)
It's also possible that employers aren't impressed by someone whose phrasing might come off as arrogant and appears to think they're better than the others they'd be working with. I read your posts in this thread that you were asking for suggestions, but then dismissed the suggestions as beneath you. That may not be what you intended, but it is how it came across at least to me.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 15:17:43 GMT -5
I don't think anyone needs to hide the fact that they are intelligent in job interviews (unless you are perhaps applying for something that the interviewer might consider to be way beneath your skill level, and then it's best not to hide your intelligence but instead to have a solid reason why you are interested in this position), nor should you have to hide that you think fast.
I have no doubt that you are very intelligent and process things quickly. I happen to know a number of people like that. (I am solidly above average in intelligence based on any test I've ever taken, and yet, I'm barely middling in my group of friends.) Many of them would always rather take a test to get a job than do an interview. And that's because a "good fit" in a job isn't just about your intelligence and skills, its about your ability to work with others and communicate with them. There are honestly very few true "individual contributor" jobs out there anymore- most places you are expected to work on a team, and yes, interviewers do make hiring decisions based on their perceptions of your ability to fit in with the team, or at least take it into consideration. I myself made a hiring decision based solely on that when I was hiring a student employee at the University (to do a job my ten year old would have been competent at), and took it into consideration when hiring a full time employee; though I did not hire the person I recognized as having the best personality fit with my current staff, it is what made her the second choice candidate.
If your brain is working fast, consider that your mouth may be working too fast. Even if you have an answer to their question before they are done asking it, take a moment to think over your word choice before starting to answer. Slow your rate of speech down, so they don't feel like they are talking to an auctioneer or a debater. Another trick, to keep yourself from tangent-ing, which many brilliant people I know do, is to just jot down a couple of notes to yourself about points you want to make in answering the question, and then, once you've made those points, stop.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 23, 2014 15:21:45 GMT -5
In your post above you go from microprocessors->wunderkinds->records->racecar drivers. And you still don't manage to answer the question in a way that I, as the question asker, understand.
It's also possible that employers aren't impressed by someone whose phrasing might come off as arrogant and appears to think they're better than the others they'd be working with.
I think these are both valid and useful pieces of feedback. Most people don't give honest thoughts in such a straightforward (yet polite) way.
I know people don't always speak the way they write but I do have trouble following your posts and sometimes it does come across like you think you're smarter than everyone else (the mental health thread comes to mind). I'm not trying to pile on, just attempting to add a specific example to the constructive feedback.
For some jobs, this might not matter. But many jobs require a high degree of oral/written communication skills. And pretty much all jobs require being able to get along with people.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 15:25:22 GMT -5
TheHaitian asked for any update. None so far for today, other than I now have a first round phone interview for a data analyst position scheduled for tomorrow morning at 11am. My best guess on the BSA role is that I am choice #2, and today is the day they are expecting an answer from choice #1. Still nothing on the EA role. I hate to hope I don't get offered a position, but I really hope they decide to pass on me. I can't turn down an offer without another offer, but of the things I've got on my plate, I would really rather anything else. (Mostly because I could do the job they want, at least to start, in my sleep.)
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 23, 2014 15:42:18 GMT -5
I've had to work on this myself, although not because I'm thinking smarter or faster than others, but because I tend to fill silences and talk when I'm nervous. I've had to learn to slow down and not volunteer too much information that's not asked for.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 23, 2014 15:44:54 GMT -5
In your post above you go from microprocessors->wunderkinds->records->racecar drivers. And you still don't manage to answer the question in a way that I, as the question asker, understand.
It's also possible that employers aren't impressed by someone whose phrasing might come off as arrogant and appears to think they're better than the others they'd be working with.
I think these are both valid and useful pieces of feedback. Most people don't give honest thoughts in such a straightforward (yet polite) way. I know people don't always speak the way they write but I do have trouble following your posts and sometimes it does come across like you think you're smarter than everyone else (the mental health thread comes to mind). I'm not trying to pile on, just attempting to add a specific example to the constructive feedback. For some jobs, this might not matter. But many jobs require a high degree of oral/written communication skills. And pretty much all jobs require being able to get along with people. Did you just call me polite? Them's fighting words!!!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 23, 2014 15:53:19 GMT -5
Technically I called you STRAIGHTFORWARD and polite And I think I threw Rocky Mtn Saver under that same bus too!
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 23, 2014 15:55:42 GMT -5
Technically I called you STRAIGHTFORWARD and polite And I think I threw Rocky Mtn Saver under that same bus too! Hey, I've been called worse.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 23, 2014 15:56:48 GMT -5
TheHaitian asked for any update. None so far for today, other than I now have a first round phone interview for a data analyst position scheduled for tomorrow morning at 11am. My best guess on the BSA role is that I am choice #2, and today is the day they are expecting an answer from choice #1. Still nothing on the EA role. I hate to hope I don't get offered a position, but I really hope they decide to pass on me. I can't turn down an offer without another offer, but of the things I've got on my plate, I would really rather anything else. (Mostly because I could do the job they want, at least to start, in my sleep.) I am sure this has been brought up before, but is your blog your real name?
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 16:02:11 GMT -5
ArchietheDragon - my blog is my real first and middle name, not last name. But yes, I am easily found because the email address I use for job searching is on my personal domain. That's a lot of the reason that I haven't been posting a whole lot during the job search.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 23, 2014 16:04:35 GMT -5
ArchietheDragon - my blog is my real first and middle name, not last name. But yes, I am easily found because the email address I use for job searching is on my personal domain. That's a lot of the reason that I haven't been posting a whole lot during the job search. I just wonder if that is hurting you. I know that some employer do Google searches on perspective employees. They may be turned off by the blogs. Just a thought.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 16:13:19 GMT -5
ArchietheDragon - it's possible, just like it's possible I'm hurt by the fact that I don't wear make-up. My blogs have come up in interviews, though often as an answer about what am I passionate about (writing, my pets, personal finance). I have also talked about them when it comes to learning Tableau Public (because Tableau is popular reporting software), and mention that I have used my own job search data to create the graphs. I've yet to have anyone balk at the mention of them, and in some cases, I know they have gotten me interviews. If I didn't live in the Seattle area, I might be more concerned about the blogs creating a negative reaction, but up here, people almost expect you to have a blog. In addition, I have always been very careful about what I have shared, as it has related to my work, on the blogs. I have never bad-mouthed any employer or co-worker and do my best to be very conscientious about what I post. So, much like the not wearing make-up, if they don't want me because of my blogs, I don't want to work there. Because writing, and writing about things I care about, is too much a part of who I am. edited to add: if you google my full name, the first page of results is pretty much entirely the coffee table book I published with my brother and an interview I was quoted in about FinCon13 (last year's financial blogger conference). If you google me without my middle name, you get a well known (at least in the PNW) brand name product.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 23, 2014 16:37:18 GMT -5
So, much like the not wearing make-up, if they don't want me because of my blogs, I don't want to work there. Because writing, and writing about things I care about, is too much a part of who I am. I've never had my blog come up in an interview, but if it ever does I wouldn't mind a bit. If asked, I'd be happy to explain why the subject (rape culture) matters to me. I'm proud of that blog. If nothing else, they should be able to see that I express myself clearly through writing. If they don't care for the subject matter, that's okay. It shouldn't have any bearing on whether I can do the job - and if it somehow does (in a negative way), I wouldn't want to work there anyway.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 23, 2014 16:55:23 GMT -5
ArchietheDragon - it's possible, just like it's possible I'm hurt by the fact that I don't wear make-up. My blogs have come up in interviews, though often as an answer about what am I passionate about (writing, my pets, personal finance). I have also talked about them when it comes to learning Tableau Public (because Tableau is popular reporting software), and mention that I have used my own job search data to create the graphs. I've yet to have anyone balk at the mention of them, and in some cases, I know they have gotten me interviews. If I didn't live in the Seattle area, I might be more concerned about the blogs creating a negative reaction, but up here, people almost expect you to have a blog. In addition, I have always been very careful about what I have shared, as it has related to my work, on the blogs. I have never bad-mouthed any employer or co-worker and do my best to be very conscientious about what I post. So, much like the not wearing make-up, if they don't want me because of my blogs, I don't want to work there. Because writing, and writing about things I care about, is too much a part of who I am. edited to add: if you google my full name, the first page of results is pretty much entirely the coffee table book I published with my brother and an interview I was quoted in about FinCon13 (last year's financial blogger conference). If you google me without my middle name, you get a well known (at least in the PNW) brand name product. I figured you had thought about it and you have. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't something you were missing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 18:39:47 GMT -5
Empressspunkles, I'm thrilled for you! This has to be such a relief and all that delicious bread you get to bring home is a wonderful bonus. Congratulations, hon! Woohoo! And if you care to pass along any secrets to making Panera like bread, we won't be upset! Not in this lifetime. Had to sign a confidentiality agreement. Sorry. I'll be baking it, not making it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 23, 2014 18:53:54 GMT -5
I can't imagine no makeup being an issue in the PNW.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 19:10:30 GMT -5
Technically I called you STRAIGHTFORWARD and polite And I think I threw Rocky Mtn Saver under that same bus too! Don't feel bad. I've been called a lady!!! That was just MEAN!!!
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flutterby
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Post by flutterby on Sept 23, 2014 19:19:10 GMT -5
Today's update: The job I had the phone interview for last Monday is a no-go, but I'm happy they at least let me know they hired someone else. I also had a phone and in-person interview last week for a temp job. They just called to set up an interview with the company I'd potentially be working at for this Thursday. I'm cautiously optimistic. As for my rant of last week about interviewers asking for a skill I clearly don't have and the posting doesn't ask for (A/P), that's what this job is for. Go figure.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 19:54:17 GMT -5
And because I know you're all on the edge of your seat waiting for updates...
BSA position (supposed to have been contacted Friday, extended to today): I have heard nothing EA position (supposed to have been contacted Monday): I have heard nothing Dir Ops position (4th round interview scheduled for next Tuesday): received my "business problem" today and am formulating my response. They want it by Friday morning (shouldn't be a problem) Administrator position: not expecting to hear anything until next week Business Process Analyst position: I have no timeline other than the job start date of 10/13. Have heard nothing more since recruiter said he'd send in my resume Data Analyst position (new): first round phone interview scheduled for tomorrow
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 20:06:52 GMT -5
Flutterby and shanendoah: good luck ladies!!!! I know how sucky it can be. And yes, I sold out and took a retail-ish job. But you have less unemployed time and issues under your belt than I. So seriously, GOOD LUCK AND MAY THE FORCE (or FARCE, depending on the movie you prefer ) BE WITH YOU!!!!
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 20:35:42 GMT -5
@empressspunkles: You did NOT sell out. Trust me, I'd take a job at Nordstroms or REI in a heartbeat, but I have 0 background in retail (closest I came was a year in a video rental store during undergrad, so pre-2000), so they don't want me. I love both movies and often it feels like a farce, but since farces rarely actually turn out good for anyone, I'll take the force.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 20:44:13 GMT -5
No, just no. No employer ever thought 'We can't hire them, they are too intelligent and think too fast" Never...never ever ever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 20:53:55 GMT -5
@empressspunkles: You did NOT sell out. Trust me, I'd take a job at Nordstroms or REI in a heartbeat, but I have 0 background in retail (closest I came was a year in a video rental store during undergrad, so pre-2000), so they don't want me. I love both movies and often it feels like a farce, but since farces rarely actually turn out good for anyone, I'll take the force. I love you!! You get me. You really really get me!!! Unfortunately, I got my start in a grocery store then worked in 2 department/retail stores for about 10 years so have more experience than I want in retail. And it was pre-2000 - I mean WAAAAAYYY pre-2000. Simply put, I loathe people. That's why I was happy to see an overnight job. No people!! Well, customers. Lots of them suck. Long and convoluted story but let's just say it's related to the hearing loss. I thought about Nordstrom's for about a minute but the 2 around here get ripped off on such a regular basis that I'd be afraid they would think it was me. I love purses but not enough to STEAL them!!!
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