Donald Trump's Message Plays Into Hands of ISIS Recruitment

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-message-helps-isis-recruitment--engel-581858371774

Trump message plays into hands of ISIS recruitment: Engel


Richard Engel, NBC News chief foreign correspondent, talks with Rachel Maddow about why Donald Trump's proposal to block all Muslims from entering the United States is irresponsible in terms of national security, and how Trump's message will be received around the world.

OK, so moderate muslims are just sitting around, minding their own business, not wanting to kill us until someone says something that bothers them, at which point they will sign up for ISIS and murder us. 

Check.

[djAdvocate]

the way you get from point A to point B often mystifies me.

edit: for the record, i like Engel.  i think he is a good reporter.  and i think he is spot on in his assessment that we have lost our collective minds in the US.

hopefully we will regain them before the election.

[happyhoix]

Isis has been telling Muslims that the West is still on crusade to destroy the Muslim religion.

If Trump gets elected and is allowed to implement his plans to target all Muslims and not allow them entry into our country, he is doing exactly what Isis says the West is doing. Which could motivate some Muslims to become radicalized.

On the other hand, if our country does what George Jr did after 9/11 - insisting that Islam is a religion of peace and we are not at war with Islam - it helps prove what a lying pack of bastards the Isis terrorists are, which might prevent some Muslims from drinking the Kool aid and joining them.

We need the help and support from Muslim Middle Eastern countries. Without it we can't hope to defeat Isis. You can't piss on their foot and tell them they can't come to your country because their religion sucks while at the same time asking them to help you mount a war.

But you knew that.

 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Oh, I agree we've lost our minds. Hopefully, we come to our senses before we're all dead. This point is in essence extortion. Do what muslims want us to do, or they will be radicalized and kill us. That's just point A-- there is no point B. The statement IS the point. It's hardly a crusade to say you can't immigrate here. There is no natural human right to come to America. We decide who comes here, period. This is historically true, it's true today. There are rules about who can come here now. For example, Christians being persecuted by ISIS in the middle east in Iraq and Syria RIGHT NOW are precluded from entry into the United States as refugees by our laws. thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/228670-no-room-in-america-for-christian-refugees

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2015 14:30:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Oh, I agree we've lost our minds. Hopefully, we come to our senses before we're all dead. This point is in essence extortion. Do what muslims want us to do, or they will be radicalized and kill us. That's just point A-- there is no point B. The statement IS the point. It's hardly a crusade to say you can't immigrate here. There is no natural human right to come to America. We decide who comes here, period. This is historically true, it's true today. There are rules about who can come here now. For example, Christians being persecuted by ISIS in the middle east in Iraq and Syria RIGHT NOW are precluded from entry into the United States as refugees by our laws. thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/228670-no-room-in-america-for-christian-refugees

actually, that is just the opposite of the point.  we should do what we have always done, not what their terror makes us believe we "must" do.  otherwise, they win.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 9, 2015 14:42:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 9, 2015 14:30:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Oh, I agree we've lost our minds. Hopefully, we come to our senses before we're all dead. This point is in essence extortion. Do what muslims want us to do, or they will be radicalized and kill us. That's just point A-- there is no point B. The statement IS the point. It's hardly a crusade to say you can't immigrate here. There is no natural human right to come to America. We decide who comes here, period. This is historically true, it's true today. There are rules about who can come here now. For example, Christians being persecuted by ISIS in the middle east in Iraq and Syria RIGHT NOW are precluded from entry into the United States as refugees by our laws. thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/228670-no-room-in-america-for-christian-refugees

actually, that is just the opposite of the point.  we should do what we have always done, not what their terror makes us believe we "must" do.  otherwise, they win.

Baloney.  This is extortion, pure and simple.  The argument is not in "essence" it is in every possible interpretation: don't make muslims angry, or they will become radicalized and kill you.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

And by the way- if muslims are on the bubble like that- shouldn't we stop them from coming here? If they are so fragile, if they are all just teetering on the edge of being recruited by ISIS, then should we trust any of them? I'm not in danger of being recruited by ISIS, but ISIS is supposedly not muslim-- but all muslims are susceptible to recruitment by ISIS if a single GOP presidential candidate states the opinion, shared by anyone with a brain, that perhaps we need to look at a temporary suspension of immigration by muslims until we have a handle on just what the hell is going on here in light of Paris and San Bernardino? Give me a break. The world has a muslim problem right now. We don't have a Buddhist problem, we don't have a New Ager problem, We don't have a Presbyterian, or a Seventh Day Adventist problem. The entire world is at war with a faction of islam which is embraced by a "small percentage" of the worlds ONE BILLION muslims.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 9, 2015 15:22:54 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 9, 2015 14:42:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

actually, that is just the opposite of the point.  we should do what we have always done, not what their terror makes us believe we "must" do.  otherwise, they win.

Baloney.  This is extortion, pure and simple.  The argument is not in "essence" it is in every possible interpretation: don't make muslims angry, or they will become radicalized and kill you.

no.  our policy should be to ignore their antics and focus on the problem, rather than getting freaked out, and curtailing the human rights of 1.5 BILLION people.

if you can't see that this policy idea is completely insane, i can't really help you, Paul.  but i am done discussing it.

edit: before i leave, however, let me reiterate: Engel is right on this, and Trump and everyone that agrees with him is wrong.  this "idea" is not only stupid, but ruinous to our war on terror, not an aid.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 9, 2015 15:27:53 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 9, 2015 15:22:54 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Baloney.  This is extortion, pure and simple.  The argument is not in "essence" it is in every possible interpretation: don't make muslims angry, or they will become radicalized and kill you.

no.  our policy should be to ignore their antics and focus on the problem, rather than getting freaked out, and curtailing the human rights of 1.5 BILLION people.

if you can't see that this policy idea is completely insane, i can't really help you, Paul.  but i am done discussing it.

THERE IS NO "HUMAN RIGHT" TO IMMIGRATE TO THE UNITED STATES!

[djAdvocate]

red herring.  like i said, we are done, here. 

[happyhoix]

Dec 9, 2015 15:27:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

And by the way- if muslims are on the bubble like that- shouldn't we stop them from coming here? If they are so fragile, if they are all just teetering on the edge of being recruited by ISIS, then should we trust any of them? I'm not in danger of being recruited by ISIS, but ISIS is supposedly not muslim-- but all muslims are susceptible to recruitment by ISIS if a single GOP presidential candidate states the opinion, shared by anyone with a brain, that perhaps we need to look at a temporary suspension of immigration by muslims until we have a handle on just what the hell is going on here in light of Paris and San Bernardino? Give me a break. The world has a muslim problem right now. We don't have a Buddhist problem, we don't have a New Ager problem, We don't have a Presbyterian, or a Seventh Day Adventist problem. The entire world is at war with a faction of islam which is embraced by a "small percentage" of the worlds ONE BILLION muslims.

Telling people they can't come in the country if they're Muslims will only make them lie about being Muslims.

Putting such a policy in place only offends the large majority of Muslims who are NOT terrorists. It won't keep out the terrorists.

I don't know why this is even something Trump is offering as a way to 'fix' the terrorism problem, when it so obviously won't work.

Unless his point is just to cause controversy and bring attention to himself.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 9, 2015 16:42:19 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Dec 9, 2015 15:27:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

And by the way- if muslims are on the bubble like that- shouldn't we stop them from coming here? If they are so fragile, if they are all just teetering on the edge of being recruited by ISIS, then should we trust any of them? I'm not in danger of being recruited by ISIS, but ISIS is supposedly not muslim-- but all muslims are susceptible to recruitment by ISIS if a single GOP presidential candidate states the opinion, shared by anyone with a brain, that perhaps we need to look at a temporary suspension of immigration by muslims until we have a handle on just what the hell is going on here in light of Paris and San Bernardino? Give me a break. The world has a muslim problem right now. We don't have a Buddhist problem, we don't have a New Ager problem, We don't have a Presbyterian, or a Seventh Day Adventist problem. The entire world is at war with a faction of islam which is embraced by a "small percentage" of the worlds ONE BILLION muslims.

Telling people they can't come in the country if they're Muslims will only make them lie about being Muslims.

Putting such a policy in place only offends the large majority of Muslims who are NOT terrorists. It won't keep out the terrorists.

I don't know why this is even something Trump is offering as a way to 'fix' the terrorism problem, when it so obviously won't work.

Unless his point is just to cause controversy and bring attention to himself.  

I agree- people lie. This will have to be done by country of origin, not religious affiliation.  

In my opinion- and I've said this many times, we have such a horrific illegal immigration problem in this country, job one is locking down the border if we have to put a division of Marines on the border.

Then we really ought to STOP ALL immigration temporarily until we get a handle on who is here.

Everyone here legally, or illegally should be given 90 days to check in-- expired visa? Out you go. You may re-apply, and return in one year if approved. (This, by the way, would have thwarted 9/11.  It's not even arguable.) Here illegally? You go home. Come back legally.

Fail to check in, you become ineligible to EVER return to the United States. If you do come back, we deport you and bill the country of origin for your safe return.  Return again, and you go to prison for the rest of your life somewhere like Ft. Levenworth, KS- not club fed.

No immigrant is eligible (ever) for any federal welfare programs.  Social Security and other programs will continue to be funded by payroll taxes, and taxes will be collected, but no immigrant that does not contribute as a citizen for at least 20 years may draw benefits.

These are all changes we could and should make- but we won't, so we're gonna get Trump. Because Trump's supporters don't have a sensible counter proposal- they like the status quo.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

The reality is that it's time for a freeze on ALL immigration. We need a period of assimilation, we need to get the border locked down, we need to get the budget balanced, the illegal aliens OUT, and get this country stabilized.

It's not unprecedented. Would you be shocked to learn we shut down immigration for 35 years?

From 1925 to 1960, 35 years we suspended legal immigration. You know why? So that the people who came here post-Civil War up to post-World War I could assimilate and become Americans.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 9, 2015 17:03:50 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The reality is that it's time for a freeze on ALL immigration. We need a period of assimilation, we need to get the border locked down, we need to get the budget balanced, the illegal aliens OUT, and get this country stabilized.

It's not unprecedented. Would you be shocked to learn we shut down immigration for 35 years?

From 1925 to 1960, 35 years we suspended legal immigration. You know why? So that the people who came here post-Civil War up to post-World War I could assimilate and become Americans.

link

[happyhoix]

I agree- people lie. This will have to be done by country of origin, not religious affiliation.

Sorry, you'll have to explain this to me.

Most countries have some percentage of a Muslim population. India, for instance, has about 13% Muslims. Are you saying we don't allow anyone to visit our country from India, because India has some Muslims living there?

Or maybe we just shut down all the international airports and don't let anyone in or out until Donald figures it out. 

You realize in the San Bernadino incident, the man was an American citizen, brother of soldier who served with honor in the American military? How will banning all Muslims have kept him out?