Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 25, 2015 19:49:21 GMT -5
This Thanksgiving, the Obama administration wants Americans to talk about why Congress won’t pass more gun control – but not about Obama’s foreign policy failures. During the White House press briefing, Press Secretary Josh Earnest continued to press a narrative set up by gun control activists in response to the terrorist attacks in Paris. “As people sitting around the Thanksgiving table talking about these issues as they should and I’m sure they will all across the country, I hope that’s a question that will be raised and asked by members around the table,” Earnest said, referring to a bill supported by Democrat to ban people on the no-fly list from purchasing a gun. www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/23/white-house-americans-talk-gun-control-thanksgiving/
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Nov 26, 2015 8:52:56 GMT -5
Breitbart is the source? I'm not gonna dignify that with a reading
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 26, 2015 9:02:28 GMT -5
Of course not. Breitbart isn't actually generating the story, they report it. So, if you want to pretend otherwise, then alrighty then. Just look at the "source" and not the actual content, lol.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Nov 26, 2015 9:06:40 GMT -5
Dang It, What is now the greatest crisis face us now. I keep forgetting! Oh, Now it discussing gun control for people on the no-fly list from purchasing a gun. But I thought it was the greater threat that ISIS terrorist attacks that we need to be more vigilant watch all our neighbors to see if they are do something, like being a domestic terrorist. Yes, I knew we were in trouble with terrorism when, Obama used one of Bush's favorite words, Yes, He reached into the old grocery bag, pulled that dreaded word "EVIL". Boy, did that ever send a shiver down my spine. Let's see here I still think I am missing something, We have the Paris terriost attacks, we now have half the world bombing Syria, We have the everyday event of the Palestinians and Israel killing each other. We have Russia airplanes either being blown up or shot down. No, No, that was not the greatest crisis, what was it, Ohhh, Now I remember!! Yes, The greatest "CRISIS TO MANKIND TODAY IS.......................................CLIMATE CHANGE" Now I remember!! Happy Thanksgiving
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 26, 2015 9:23:53 GMT -5
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 26, 2015 9:58:30 GMT -5
Here ya go. 1:37 sec It gets tiring talking to liberals. They won't read content and just say "oh it's Breitbart", blah, blah.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 26, 2015 11:03:52 GMT -5
Its get tiring to read OMG, OMG threads too.
The first sentence of the OP is pure opinion. "This Thanksgiving, the Obama administration wants Americans to talk about why Congress won’t pass more gun control – but not about Obama’s foreign policy failures." I don't care enough to watch the video again, but I saw it phrased as people are probably going to talk about guns, why not talk about X as well. But congratulations, here you are talking about gun control on Thanksgiving.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Nov 26, 2015 11:07:03 GMT -5
Ok...! But where is he saying that Americans should talk about gun control at the Thanksgiving dinner table?!
And just to be clear: every time I read an article by Breitbart, I had the feeling that they re just trying their hand at "creative writing". It was never bout the actual issue at hand. What they are writing is rarely and remotely connected to the facts that they claim to be reporting.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 26, 2015 11:14:36 GMT -5
I guess it's better than talking about how dry the turkey is....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 13:18:09 GMT -5
And here I thought that perhaps on this day of Thanks Giving, Americans might reflect on what they have to be thankful for and possibly, just possibly... consider the plight of others not quite as fortunate to be living in America.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Nov 26, 2015 13:25:17 GMT -5
Breitbart is the source? I'm not gonna dignify that with a reading Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I see. If you don't like the message, belittle the source. But, have a Happy Ad Hominem Fallacy, anyway.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 26, 2015 13:31:53 GMT -5
Breitbart is the source? I'm not gonna dignify that with a reading Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I see. If you don't like the message, belittle the source. But, have a Happy Ad Hominem Fallacy, anyway. just a technicality, but discrediting the source doesn't qualify as "ad hominem", if the source is a news outlet. hominem = man = individual, not organization/agency/company. i understand what you are saying here, but there is probably a latin word for "organization" that could be used in it's stead.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Nov 26, 2015 14:02:40 GMT -5
I see. If you don't like the message, belittle the source. But, have a Happy Ad Hominem Fallacy, anyway. just a technicality, but discrediting the source doesn't qualify as "ad hominem", if the source is a news outlet. hominem = man = individual, not organization/agency/company. i understand what you are saying here, but there is probably a latin word for "organization" that could be used in it's stead. I was thinking of our discussions of this over the years when I decided to post it. I'll still hold that there is nothing in the essence of ad hominem as a logical fallacy which should limit it's application to persons only and not entities. If your issue is just one of nomenclature per your second sentence, then I'd argue that choice of name does not inherently limit a concept. If it is poorly named, then so be it: the concept still holds. If my parents named me Hillary, I still wouldn't be a Democrat.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 26, 2015 14:14:18 GMT -5
just a technicality, but discrediting the source doesn't qualify as "ad hominem", if the source is a news outlet. hominem = man = individual, not organization/agency/company. i understand what you are saying here, but there is probably a latin word for "organization" that could be used in it's stead. I was thinking of our discussions of this over the years when I decided to post it. I'll still hold that there is nothing in the essence of ad hominem as a logical fallacy which should limit it's application to persons only and not entities. If your issue is just one of nomenclature per your second sentence, then I'd argue that choice of name does not inherently limit a concept. If it is poorly named, then so be it: the concept still holds. If my parents named me Hillary, I still wouldn't be a Democrat. i agree that the CONCEPT holds. just not the term. there is a second problem, of course. and that is that we are not actually engaging in a debate with Breitbart. ad hominem is used to undermine the credibility of someone you are DEBATING with. you know all of this, of course. that is why i called it a technicality. and again, i am sure there is another latin term that describes this (as a logical fallacy), but ad hominem is not it. how about we call it "ad hominemish" and leave it at that?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 26, 2015 14:44:08 GMT -5
Shooby....it's Thanksgiving. Maybe just give it a rest for today. All this teeth-gnashing about Obama can't possibly be good for you. Enjoy your turkey, give thanks with your family, and just forego all this unbridled rage against Obama and the liberal scourge. You can go back to wringing your hands and tearing your hair out tomorrow.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Nov 26, 2015 15:07:02 GMT -5
dj: If I said that a statement by Trump was idiotic because he uttered the words, I wouldn't be debating with Trump but it would be an ad hominem fallacy. No matter that it might likely be true - that's irrelevant. But, what's to argue on Thanksgiving, anyway? Except who gets the wishbone.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Nov 26, 2015 15:08:04 GMT -5
Shooby....it's Thanksgiving. Maybe just give it a rest for today. All this teeth-gnashing about Obama can't possibly be good for you. Enjoy your turkey, give thanks with your family, and just forego all this unbridled rage against Obama and the liberal scourge. You can go back to wringing your hands and tearing your hair out tomorrow. I really enjoy irony.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 26, 2015 15:11:31 GMT -5
Shooby....it's Thanksgiving. Maybe just give it a rest for today. All this teeth-gnashing about Obama can't possibly be good for you. Enjoy your turkey, give thanks with your family, and just forego all this unbridled rage against Obama and the liberal scourge. You can go back to wringing your hands and tearing your hair out tomorrow. You can clearly see what the thread is about Welts. So, try taking your own advice for a change.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 26, 2015 15:26:50 GMT -5
It's not my Thanksgiving. If you want to spend yours giving yourself a stroke about Obama, have at it.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 26, 2015 15:34:13 GMT -5
Oh lol. Isnt that just what you are doing?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 26, 2015 15:39:12 GMT -5
READ MY LIPS.......It's not my Thanksgiving.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 26, 2015 15:41:40 GMT -5
So what? I can multitask even on holidays.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 26, 2015 22:24:37 GMT -5
dj: If I said that a statement by Trump was idiotic because he uttered the words, I wouldn't be debating with Trump but it would be an ad hominem fallacy. No matter that it might likely be true - that's irrelevant. But, what's to argue on Thanksgiving, anyway? Except who gets the wishbone. not sure that is true. i have ONLY heard the term used as part of argumentative form. unless you are arguing with Trump, i don't think this is true. now, if you claim that Trump is right, and i call YOU an idiot, that is quite a different matter. perhaps we should consult our oracle of logic, Virgil, on this one?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 26, 2015 22:28:27 GMT -5
to make myself clear: ad hominem is used to make the argument about your opponent in the debate, in an attempt to undermine credibility. since Trump is not my opponent in this or any other debate, calling him an idiot is not an ad hominem argumentative. neither is calling Brietbart without any journalistic merit. but it is reminiscent of ad hominem, for sure. but hey- i might be wrong. like i say, it is just my understanding of the term. edit: here is my understanding: www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Nov 26, 2015 22:28:39 GMT -5
Dang It, What is now the greatest crisis face us now. I keep forgetting! Oh, Now it discussing gun control for people on the no-fly list from purchasing a gun. But I thought it was the greater threat that ISIS terrorist attacks that we need to be more vigilant watch all our neighbors to see if they are do something, like being a domestic terrorist. Yes, I knew we were in trouble with terrorism when, Obama used one of Bush's favorite words, Yes, He reached into the old grocery bag, pulled that dreaded word "EVIL". Boy, did that ever send a shiver down my spine. Let's see here I still think I am missing something, We have the Paris terriost attacks, we now have half the world bombing Syria, We have the everyday event of the Palestinians and Israel killing each other. We have Russia airplanes either being blown up or shot down. No, No, that was not the greatest crisis, what was it, Ohhh, Now I remember!! Yes, The greatest "CRISIS TO MANKIND TODAY IS.......................................CLIMATE CHANGE" Now I remember!! Happy Thanksgiving Same story, different year. Perfect practice for gun control.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Nov 26, 2015 22:49:33 GMT -5
"Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning."
Is not about me liking the source but about the fact that IT IS NOT A SOURCE!
Breitbart as a news outlet equals me and nuclear physics: I have no idea what all is about but I'm there! If anyone shows me a piece publicized by Breitbart that in fact holds true to its headline and relates news that are in fact news that that might change my mind about them. So far all I read by them was pure nonsense.
And no, my statement due to the fact that is true does not qualify as an "argumentum ad hominem". That would be true only if Breitbart were a news outlet. If Breitbart is one than so is The Onion!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 27, 2015 8:28:48 GMT -5
Oddly enough we had no gun control discussion No Muslim war on terror discussion No Republican Presidential candidate discussion No Democratic Presidential candidate discussion No "black lives matter" discussion No "let's see what movies are playing this weekend" discussion No who is buying whatever items on Black Friday discussion And everyone lasted about five hours, and we seem to have had an excellent time. Either that, or I have been transported to another dimension. Paris and Mali were slightly discussed, but only to the point of how horrible it was. No swords were drawn. And I must say, it was an excellent day, and we have plenty of pie left over for today!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 27, 2015 9:10:29 GMT -5
Oddly enough we had no gun control discussion No Muslim war on terror discussion No Republican Presidential candidate discussion No Democratic Presidential candidate discussion No "black lives matter" discussion No "let's see what movies are playing this weekend" discussion No who is buying whatever items on Black Friday discussion And everyone lasted about five hours, and we seem to have had an excellent time. Either that, or I have been transported to another dimension. Paris and Mali were slightly discussed, but only to the point of how horrible it was. No swords were drawn. And I must say, it was an excellent day, and we have plenty of pie left over for today! That was all but a dream caused by tryptophan. Too much food eaten. Everyone had afternoon nap dreams like that yesterday.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 27, 2015 9:53:15 GMT -5
I actually participated all day, never passed out on the couch, like the oldsters from my youth used to do
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Nov 27, 2015 16:34:34 GMT -5
to make myself clear: ad hominem is used to make the argument about your opponent in the debate, in an attempt to undermine credibility. since Trump is not my opponent in this or any other debate, calling him an idiot is not an ad hominem argumentative. neither is calling Brietbart without any journalistic merit. but it is reminiscent of ad hominem, for sure. but hey- i might be wrong. like i say, it is just my understanding of the term. edit: here is my understanding: www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.htmlI read your link. Really! Some people actually do read links. Several years ago I did quite a bit of Google hit reading on the subject. Many of the hits are very similar in form and length as the link you provided. There were a few longer presentations found, but none of them had anything but the standard "because you are X, your argument is invalid" in the first and second person, but not the third person, and never having examples directed towards organizations. But I finally found a site that answered posed questions about philosophic matters called Philosophy Stack Exchange and submitted my question to them. You can view the question and the discussion by going to this site: philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/3681/does-the-ad-hominem-fallacy-only-apply-when-used-against-individuals-or-is-it-aThere was some acceptance of including organizations under the ad hominem umbrella, but one agreed with your stance of accepting it as a fallacy, but of a different name. Overall, it appears supportive of my position, but doesn't reach being definitive IMO.
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