How will history judge us

[Deleted]

I don't think we are going to come out of this looking good. I've seen stories of the British civilians during WWII. How they were so stoic while their country was being bombed. How they went about their business as normally as possible. Many stories of how people that had lost their homes or had their family evacuated throughout the country still found it within themselves to be kind to others, to worry about people they figured had it worse then them. Winston Churchill giving inspirational speeches about how the enemy would not steal their humanity.

I don't think those are the stories history is going to write about us. If certain attitudes win out we are going to end up being more like the Germans that allowed Hitler to whip them up into a froth against the Jews. Rounding them up, sending them to work camps, then concentration camps, invading other countries (for Germany it was Poland et al, for us it will be the Middle East) I will probably be one of the ineffectual and ridiculous figures that tried to stem the tide of blind hatred but got nowhere.

It will probably be the Chinese writing up this history after the rest of us have decimated ourselves and each other.

[Artemis Windsong]

History is written by the winners.

After Pearl Harbor, all Japanese Americans were rounded up and put into camps.  Most of them lost everything.  Rebuilt their lives afterward.

[Deleted]

We aren't going to be winners in this. Not once the terrorists trick us into forcing all Muslims to side with them to save themselves from us.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 19, 2015 19:42:09 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

We aren't going to be winners in this. Not once the terrorists trick us into forcing all Muslims to side with them to save themselves from us.

Hopefully, cooler heads and sanity will eventually prevail.

Long term, I personally am not going to worry about how history will judge us. I will be dead from old age. .

[Deleted]

It's not looking good Ten. It is like watching one of those movies where you see the glow of racism and hatred suddenly shining in the eyes of people you once thought highly of. I really don't like what I'm seeing right now.

[sesfw]

Actually I'm thinking with all the things that are going on in the world this little blip won't even make a foot-note.

I feel bad about the people in real need, but I also don't want to open our country doors to the disease of terrorism.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 19, 2015 20:51:16 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

It's not looking good Ten. It is like watching one of those movies where you see the glow of racism and hatred suddenly shining in the eyes of people you once thought highly of. I really don't like what I'm seeing right now.

I sure cannot disagree with you, LB. The Syrian refugees need help and they need help now.

I came across this article the other day. It show some areas of what Syria used to look like several years ago and what it looks like the past couple of years. It sure seems to me the people fleeing Syria have reason to fear for their lives. Should they stay in Syria for this? This is living?

One of many streets in the city of Homs, top picture taken in 2011, the bottom picture taken in 2014.



Syria's heritage in ruins: before-and-after pictures

[Deleted]

This little blip is how an avalanche starts. Not the best analogy, this has been moving forward for 12 years. We are past the point that it qualifies as a blip.

[fishy999]

Nov 19, 2015 20:35:12 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 19, 2015 19:42:09 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

We aren't going to be winners in this. Not once the terrorists trick us into forcing all Muslims to side with them to save themselves from us.

Hopefully, cooler heads and sanity will eventually prevail.

Long term, I personally am not going to worry about how history will judge us. I will be dead from old age. .

I hope it will- maybe this issue goes dormant before the election- kind of like Ebola!

It is the same exact thing- political posturing for the base- no difference between Christie 'containing' the nurse, and Republican governors going ape shit over the refugees.  Fear-mongering X100000

[fishy999]

Of course the Paris terrorists were not refugees but again why should facts matter anymore

[steff]

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free....

*some restrictions apply
**not available in all states

[tallguy]

   Breathe...breathe free.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 19, 2015 21:07:56 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Actually, I thought we did pretty well after 9-11. I thought President Bush did a very good job too, prior to Iraq. He both rallied the people and stressed the point that we were all in this together- including those of the Muslim faith.

I thought we did a good job after the Marathon bombing in Boston.

I don't like what I'm seeing now though, and this event wasn't even in our country or continent! I hope people calm down and remember our ideals and what we stand for.

 

there is a real battle going on for the soul of our nation.  i wish i could say that it was my party leading it.

[tallguy]

Nov 19, 2015 21:07:56 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Actually, I thought we did pretty well after 9-11. I thought President Bush did a very good job too, prior to Iraq. He both rallied the people and stressed the point that we were all in this together- including those of the Muslim faith.

I thought we did a good job after the Marathon bombing in Boston.

I don't like what I'm seeing now though, and this event wasn't even in our country or continent! I hope people calm down and remember our ideals and what we stand for.

 

The only truly presidential moment he had in eight years.  Even I will give him credit.  His first speech after 9/11 was very good. 

The other 700+ days ranged from "not particularly good" to disastrous....

[djAdvocate]

Nov 20, 2015 2:58:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Nov 19, 2015 21:07:56 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Actually, I thought we did pretty well after 9-11. I thought President Bush did a very good job too, prior to Iraq. He both rallied the people and stressed the point that we were all in this together- including those of the Muslim faith.

I thought we did a good job after the Marathon bombing in Boston.

I don't like what I'm seeing now though, and this event wasn't even in our country or continent! I hope people calm down and remember our ideals and what we stand for.

 

The only truly presidential moment he had in eight years.  Even I will give him credit.  His first speech after 9/11 was very good. 

The other 700+ days ranged from "not particularly good" to disastrous....

he was always best with a bullhorn.  since 1962.

[b2r]

intellectualfroglegs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1237170_639536976080695_2062478840_n.jpg

[tallguy]

Nov 20, 2015 3:00:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 20, 2015 2:58:56 GMT -5 tallguy said:

The only truly presidential moment he had in eight years.  Even I will give him credit.  His first speech after 9/11 was very good. 

The other 700+ days ranged from "not particularly good" to disastrous....

he was always best with a bullhorn.  since 1962.

He was always best with bull****.  Since longer ago than that, I would guess.

[Value Buy]

Nov 19, 2015 21:07:56 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Actually, I thought we did pretty well after 9-11. I thought President Bush did a very good job too, prior to Iraq. He both rallied the people and stressed the point that we were all in this together- including those of the Muslim faith.

I thought we did a good job after the Marathon bombing in Boston.

I don't like what I'm seeing now though, and this event wasn't even in our country or continent! I hope people calm down and remember our ideals and what we stand for.

 

Yes!
And the sooner President Obama gets this, we will heal.

[cronewitch]

I am on Facebook seeing everyone saying not to take refugees while we have homeless people. We will always have homeless people they aren't like refugees. Most homeless have problems like alcohol, drugs and mental illness that are expensive to treat you can't just give them housing for 90 days and they are ok again. Refugees can be housed, learn a few words of English and land a job in a generation they can be American. Some are used to being rich and educated so can land on their feet pretty well and those who were poor before will take jobs like cleaning motel rooms and working in seafood processing plants where they don't need many skills.

I remember when Castro came and the refugee came here. Many were professionals and those in Miami soon owned businesses and homes, later they sent the poor and we had problems but the first batch were not a problem at all. My best friend in high school was from Cuba and lived with her sister and BIL, they built a house themselves and had a small farm not evil in any way.

I think we need to allow refugees but to keep them from becoming terrorist have them like us not fear us. Give them 90 days in a motel or apartment and land them some janitor jobs and give them ESL classes. In a year some will be driving taxi or working at construction. In two or three years the kids will speak English and interpret for the parents.

We allowed in so many from SE Asia and Russia and other places that were hard to assimilate quickly but now are second or third generation Americans we can do this.

[djAdvocate]

Nov 20, 2015 11:09:29 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I am on Facebook seeing everyone saying not to take refugees while we have homeless people. We will always have homeless people they aren't like refugees. Most homeless have problems like alcohol, drugs and mental illness that are expensive to treat you can't just give them housing for 90 days and they are ok again. Refugees can be housed, learn a few words of English and land a job in a generation they can be American. Some are used to being rich and educated so can land on their feet pretty well and those who were poor before will take jobs like cleaning motel rooms and working in seafood processing plants where they don't need many skills.

I remember when Castro came and the refugee came here. Many were professionals and those in Miami soon owned businesses and homes, later they sent the poor and we had problems but the first batch were not a problem at all. My best friend in high school was from Cuba and lived with her sister and BIL, they built a house themselves and had a small farm not evil in any way.

I think we need to allow refugees but to keep them from becoming terrorist have them like us not fear us. Give them 90 days in a motel or apartment and land them some janitor jobs and give them ESL classes. In a year some will be driving taxi or working at construction. In two or three years the kids will speak English and interpret for the parents.

We allowed in so many from SE Asia and Russia and other places that were hard to assimilate quickly but now are second or third generation Americans we can do this.

this is why i decided to help with the refugee crisis.  people here have options, and most either choose not to take them, or they are too mentally ill to do so.  i also view this as a separate problem.

we need to do both.

[Value Buy]

How will history judge these people?


www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/at-least-27-dead-after-islamists-seize-luxury-hotel-in-malis-capital/ar-BBnfrOp?li=BBnb7Kz

[djAdvocate]

Nov 20, 2015 12:04:09 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

How will history judge these people?


www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/at-least-27-dead-after-islamists-seize-luxury-hotel-in-malis-capital/ar-BBnfrOp?li=BBnb7Kz

that is between them and Allah.  not terribly well, i am betting.  but i have no control over them, or their mortal souls- only me and mine.

[Value Buy]

Nov 20, 2015 12:11:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Nov 20, 2015 12:04:09 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

How will history judge these people?


www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/at-least-27-dead-after-islamists-seize-luxury-hotel-in-malis-capital/ar-BBnfrOp?li=BBnb7Kz

that is between them and Allah.  not terribly well, i am betting.  but i have no control over them, or their mortal souls- only me and mine.

Very true, but the op asked how will we be judged, and I believe it will be in our response of surviving a war that our leaders refuse to acknowledge we are fighting.
Are we fighting a war in Syria?
It certainly is not an invasion on our part, and Congress has not declared war, have we? And in our President's thought process Syria is not about religion, just a tyrant. Unfortunately he does not admit the parties fighting there is on religious heritage.
My response is we have little, strike that, no leverage with the enemy. It is them or us.

Japanese fighters were willing to die to the last man, until we killed enough of them, whether civilian or military. 

[djAdvocate]

you are starting from a set of assumptions that are dubious at best, and building a case for....i don't know what, actually.

what do you suggest we do, VB?  there are 1800 Syrians already here.  there will be 25000 more by EOY across a very porous border to the north.

what...do...we....do?

enough about me.  what do YOU say?

[Spellbound454]

'
Don't know if you can see this but this is how Andrew Neil introduced his political program last night.
Says it all really. They, Daesh... are offering nothing but death.

Keep a level head and act sensibly. Our way of life and our freedoms..... will always prevail in the end.

[Value Buy]

I have too much thread jumping going on right now.
I seem to be getting threads mixed up?
I thought I gave an honest response and received something else in return.
If someone gives a flippant response in a thread they might expect another one back.

I shall try hard, to stay on topic

[djAdvocate]

Nov 20, 2015 12:31:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I have too much thread jumping going on right now.
I seem to be getting threads mixed up?
I thought I gave an honest response and received something else in return.
If someone gives a flippant response in a thread they might expect another one back.

I shall try hard, to stay on topic

i am not sure who was flip first.  but never mind that.  i asked you a specific, highly thread related question.  if you want to answer it, then you can chart the course of the discussion.  if not, that is fine, too. 

[thyme4change]

I know everyone's view is skewed by where they are standing, but even the most right wing of my FB friends are not supporting the rejection of refugees. I was hoping that pressure from the general population would persuade our "leaders" to do the right thing. I saw much more opposition to gay marriage than opposition to the refugees.

[Spellbound454]

Daesh don't want people fleeing their Islamic state. They want to have a Caliphate....and its no good if no-one is there.

The acceptance of refugees looked really good and generous in the eyes of the world.....and they hate that.

Its our trump card.

[b2r]

www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/hijrah-muslim-migrants-islam-refugees-biological-jihad-germany-now-end-begins-germanistan.jpg