what would you do if you were a college administrator?

[swamp]

www.vox.com/2015/11/7/9689330/yale-halloween-email

I'm torn here.

I understand that racism is still an issue in our society. However, I don't think that college administrators should be telling people what they can wear for a Halloween costume.

If you're offended by a costume, tell the person.

[Anne_in_VA]

I agree Swamp!  I think there are too many people telling others what to do.  If you have a problem with someone, tell them!

[billisonboard]

Nov 9, 2015 9:15:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.vox.com/2015/11/7/9689330/yale-halloween-email

I'm torn here.

I understand that racism is still an issue in our society. However, I don't think that college administrators should be telling people what they can wear for a Halloween costume.

If you're offended by a costume, tell the person.

On October 28, a university committee on intercultural affairs sent a campus-wide email urging students to reconsider Halloween costumes that might be racially insensitive.  (from the link)

In answer to the title question, I have no problem with encouraging all human beings to engage brain prior to action.

[bean29]

I wonder, and I am not trying to be provocative: Is there no room anymore for a child or young person to be a little bit obnoxious… a little bit inappropriate or provocative or, yes, offensive? American universities were once a safe space not only for maturation but also for a certain regressive, or even transgressive, experience; increasingly, it seems, they have become places of censure and prohibition.

She also passed along a message from her husband Nicholas Christakis, a Yale professor of psychology and Silliman College's master, saying that, rather than having the university tell students what to wear and not wear, students should deal with it themselves.


Nicholas says, if you don’t like a costume someone is wearing, look away, or tell them you are offended. Talk to each other. Free speech and the ability to tolerate offence are the hallmarks of a free and open society.

I get both sides, as far as the University Goes, I get giving guidelines to what is acceptable dress, as an attendee, I find these kind of guidelines useful.  Most jobs I have ever had have had a dress code.  My current job does not.  I got invited to an after work fundraiser this week, and I did ask about appropriate dress.  My family was invited to an Indian Wedding this year, and after we accepted there were some pretty specific instructions as far as (Colors) that were appropriate/inappropriate.  It was my 18 year old DD's friend/her 18 year old friend (along with her Mother) gave the guidelines. 

And I think that advice from the psychology master is very appropriate "If you don't like a costume someone is wearing, look away, or tell them you are offended.  Talk to each other.  Free speech and the ability to tolerate offence are the hallmarks of a free and open society."

I think you just have to understand that if you do speak up and tell someone you are offended, they are not necessarily going to agree with you, they will probably dig in and tell you [you] are wrong.  You will have success some of the time, but not all of the time, which goes back to the reason the school felt the need to provide direction in the first place.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Well, common sense isn't so common anymore, so sometimes folks have to step in and spell out what is appropriate and what isn't.  We've decided as a nation that race is a protected class.  Yale is a multi-racial school.  Some of the students are, no doubt, meeting some folks from certain races for the very first time in their lives.  There may be ignorance and stereotypes at play, but, even very bright people (i.e., Yale students) don't always know how to use common sense.  Furthermore, things have a way of escalating very quickly beyond anyone's imagination these days.  Better to be proactive than reactive.

I'm in the "kids in college" phase of life.  While my kids are, and should be, fairly independent, I have no problem with a college administrator reminding them where the boundaries of common sense, good taste, and appropriate behavior lie.  Besides, boys' brains in particular don't fully mature until the mid-twenties.  Those frontal lobes are not firing on all cylinders.  I am grateful to anyone who understands that reality and can constructively direct their ideas.  

[Deleted]

A white teacher (in Alabama, I think) went to a private Halloween party dressed as Kanye West with his wife as Kim Kardashian.  His wife posted pictures of them on her FB feed.  (Maybe on his as well.)

There was quite the uproar over this.  The act of making himself look black was offensive to many people.  Many people wanted him fired even though he was considered an excellent teacher, but the BOE allowed him to apologize (in writing).  They reminded the public that this was a private Halloween party and his personal life.  It was a grave mistake, but humans make them.

So it is not just a "kids in college" phase.  I wonder if he had dressed up as a white Kanye West (no idea how to pull that off), would he have also been offensive?  Who exactly determines who is off-limits?  Can you do a respectful Geronimo, or are all costumes dealing with Native-American off-limits? 

But your question was what would we do as a college administrator.  I would keep the university out of the public spotlight on this sensitive issue.  That's what college administrators do as far as I can tell. 

[shanendoah]

Let's start with the fact that I AM a college administrator (though a bit lower on the totem pole - wait, is that cultural appropriation? - than those discussed in this article). I also work for a public university that is much larger than Yale. I can tell you that our administration tries, for the most part, to stay out of these kinds of messages. Last year, one of our international student groups hosted a forum on Halloween costumes as cultural appropriation and talked about what is and is not respectful. It was a front page story in the student run school paper.

As a department administrator, I do encourage my staff to dress up (because I dress up, too). But I also ask them to remember to be work appropriate. Our office doesn't have a dress code, but we do have students and faculty in and out of our offices all day. And, we happen to be one of the most diverse departments in the College of Engineering. (Our cultural diversity matches that of the university as a whole, and our gender diversity among students and faculty is the highest in the CoE, also mostly matching that of the university as a whole.)

It is a difficult line to walk. I get that Pacific Islanders don't want to see someone walking around with a banana headdress (but is it okay if I am actually dresses as Carmen Miranda?). And certainly, black face and red face are completely inappropriate in all situations. But is it really offensive for white person to dress as a samurai? And is it just as offensive for an Asian to dress as a viking? (Or, given some of the cultural appropriation arguments I've read lately, would it be wrong for a person of French descent to dress as a viking?)

I do think it is important for colleges to be safe environments (well, as safe as we can make them - my college has a student population of almost 45,000 - larger than some towns I've lived in), but I think that means it also needs to be a safe place for students to make mistakes and learn from them - and not just in the classroom.

[billisonboard]

Nov 9, 2015 12:29:15 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

... but I think that means it also needs to be a safe place for students to make mistakes and learn from them - and not just in the classroom.

I see a "we urge you to reconsider" suggestion and "Ouch, you didn't really reconsider well did you? Sucks to be you. Maybe next time you will be a little wiser" as in line with a good environment for students to be in.

[swamp]

Nov 9, 2015 12:29:15 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Let's start with the fact that I AM a college administrator (though a bit lower on the totem pole - wait, is that cultural appropriation? - than those discussed in this article). I also work for a public university that is much larger than Yale. I can tell you that our administration tries, for the most part, to stay out of these kinds of messages. Last year, one of our international student groups hosted a forum on Halloween costumes as cultural appropriation and talked about what is and is not respectful. It was a front page story in the student run school paper.

As a department administrator, I do encourage my staff to dress up (because I dress up, too). But I also ask them to remember to be work appropriate. Our office doesn't have a dress code, but we do have students and faculty in and out of our offices all day. And, we happen to be one of the most diverse departments in the College of Engineering. (Our cultural diversity matches that of the university as a whole, and our gender diversity among students and faculty is the highest in the CoE, also mostly matching that of the university as a whole.)

It is a difficult line to walk. I get that Pacific Islanders don't want to see someone walking around with a banana headdress (but is it okay if I am actually dresses as Carmen Miranda?). And certainly, black face and red face are completely inappropriate in all situations. But is it really offensive for white person to dress as a samurai? And is it just as offensive for an Asian to dress as a viking? (Or, given some of the cultural appropriation arguments I've read lately, would it be wrong for a person of French descent to dress as a viking?)

I do think it is important for colleges to be safe environments (well, as safe as we can make them - my college has a student population of almost 45,000 - larger than some towns I've lived in), but I think that means it also needs to be a safe place for students to make mistakes and learn from them - and not just in the classroom.

I've wondered where the line is.

If I want to go with my husband as Kim and Kanye, obviously based on his pasty whiteness, he has to use makeup.  Is it offensive?  I'd be stuffing cushions in my butt to dress as Kim, so is that offensive to curvey women?

If I dress as a cop, is it offensive to cops?

Obviously, dressing in blackface to mock black people is wrong, but why is it wrong just to go as a black person? 

[Tennesseer]

Nov 9, 2015 9:15:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.vox.com/2015/11/7/9689330/yale-halloween-email

I'm torn here.

I understand that racism is still an issue in our society. However, I don't think that college administrators should be telling people what they can wear for a Halloween costume.

If you're offended by a costume, tell the person.

I wonder if the campus-wide email was also written out of concern for the safety of the students in addition to the feelings of the non-white students at Yale. New Haven has often made top ten lists for violent and non-violent crime in U.S. cities.

I lived in New Haven for over ten years, right in between Yale University Hospital/Medical School and the Yale campus. Both the campus and the hospital were one block away from me. City streets and sidewalks bisect the university campus unlike many colleges and universities. While there are dorm parties within the Yale campus, many of the student weekend and evening entertainment venues, including restaurants and bars, are on the outside edge of the campus and no more than a several minute walk away from even the center of the University. Many sophomores, juniors and seniors also live off campus but within very short walking distance to the university. Half of my 16 story apartment building consisted of Yale students. Any student getting dressed up for Halloween parties would have to walk the city streets to get from point A to point B. The safety of the students is an on-going issue for the city of New Haven.

So I wonder if it was also a safety issue for the students that the email was written, just not highlighted. I can appreciate not being told how to dress for Halloween as the students wish to be treated like adults and not having their activities censored or limited in nature. I would not care to be told that either. But crime is often visited upon Yale students and faculty by non-Yale citizens within the Yale University campus buildings and surrounding areas year-round.

[swamp]

Nov 9, 2015 13:22:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 9, 2015 9:15:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

www.vox.com/2015/11/7/9689330/yale-halloween-email

I'm torn here.

I understand that racism is still an issue in our society. However, I don't think that college administrators should be telling people what they can wear for a Halloween costume.

If you're offended by a costume, tell the person.

I wonder if the campus-wide email was also written out of concern for the safety of the students in addition to the feelings of the non-white students at Yale. New Haven has often made top ten lists for violent and non-violent crime in U.S. cities.

I lived in New Haven for over ten years, right in between Yale University Hospital/Medical School and the Yale campus. Both the campus and the hospital were one block away from me. City streets and sidewalks bisect the university campus unlike many colleges and universities. While there are dorm parties within the Yale campus, many of the student weekend and evening entertainment venues, including restaurants and bars, are on the outside edge of the campus and no more than a several minute walk away from even the center of the University. Many sophomores, juniors and seniors also live off campus but within very short walking distance to the university. Half of my 16 story apartment building consisted of Yale students. Any student getting dressed up for Halloween parties would have to walk the city streets to get from point A to point B. The safety of the students is an on-going issue for the city of New Haven.

So I wonder if it was also a safety issue for the students that the email was written, just not highlighted. I can appreciate not being told how to dress for Halloween as the students wish to be treated like adults and not having their activities censored or limited in nature. I would not care to be told that either. But crime is often visited upon Yale students and faculty by non-Yale citizens within the Yale University campus buildings an surrounding areas year-round.

There was no mention of safety.  It was all about not offending fellow students. 

The more I think about it, the more I think the administration should stay out of it.  

[Tennesseer]

Nov 9, 2015 13:26:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 9, 2015 13:22:45 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I wonder if the campus-wide email was also written out of concern for the safety of the students in addition to the feelings of the non-white students at Yale. New Haven has often made top ten lists for violent and non-violent crime in U.S. cities.

I lived in New Haven for over ten years, right in between Yale University Hospital/Medical School and the Yale campus. Both the campus and the hospital were one block away from me. City streets and sidewalks bisect the university campus unlike many colleges and universities. While there are dorm parties within the Yale campus, many of the student weekend and evening entertainment venues, including restaurants and bars, are on the outside edge of the campus and no more than a several minute walk away from even the center of the University. Many sophomores, juniors and seniors also live off campus but within very short walking distance to the university. Half of my 16 story apartment building consisted of Yale students. Any student getting dressed up for Halloween parties would have to walk the city streets to get from point A to point B. The safety of the students is an on-going issue for the city of New Haven.

So I wonder if it was also a safety issue for the students that the email was written, just not highlighted. I can appreciate not being told how to dress for Halloween as the students wish to be treated like adults and not having their activities censored or limited in nature. I would not care to be told that either. But crime is often visited upon Yale students and faculty by non-Yale citizens within the Yale University campus buildings an surrounding areas year-round.

There was no mention of safety.  It was all about not offending fellow students. 

The more I think about it, the more I think the administration should stay out of it.  

That is why I said not highlighted. But crime against the students by non-students is a problem in New Haven.

[The Captain]

This is why we only dress up as animals or fictional characters. 

[quince]

I think the words cultural appropriation are often used too broadly- No one should be crying if someone not Japanese wears a kimono- Japanese people are all about taking slices of western culture that they enjoy. I would be fucking irritated if the costume included make-up to imitate stereotypical Asian features/coloring.

On the other hand, wearing religious or culturally significant ceremonial regalia of a marginalized culture? I think finger-wagging is fine in these cases, and this is why people get miffed at Native American headdresses and such.

Dressing as actual celebrities? Ok, I guess, but weird. Using make-up and padding to approximate the coloring and build of people of other ethnicities? Kind of getting really gross, but I think making a caricature of a person's body type or features as a costume is gross.   

Historic dress is a costume.  Ethnicity is not a costume.

[swamp]

Nov 9, 2015 13:38:59 GMT -5 The Captain said:

This is why we only dress up as animals or fictional characters. 

thats' offensive to Cinderella.

[The Captain]

Nov 9, 2015 13:40:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 9, 2015 13:38:59 GMT -5 The Captain said:

This is why we only dress up as animals or fictional characters. 

thats' offensive to Cinderella.

That's why I go as the witch!

[swamp]

Nov 9, 2015 13:41:59 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Nov 9, 2015 13:40:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

thats' offensive to Cinderella.

That's why I go as the witch!

You're being offensive to Wiccans.

[swamp]

Next Halloween I'm going as a red starbucks cup.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I wonder if they were trying to steer students away from more troublesome costume ideas such as Jihadi John or an Isis fighter or a woman in a burqa than Kanye or Native Americans?

[billisonboard]

Shall we look at the email itself:

... So, if you are planning to dress-up for Halloween, or will be attending any social gatherings planned for the weekend, please ask yourself these questions before deciding upon your costume choice:

• Wearing a funny costume? Is the humor based on “making fun” of real people, human traits or cultures?

• Wearing a historical costume? If this costume is meant to be historical, does it further misinformation or historical and cultural inaccuracies?

• Wearing a ‘cultural’ costume? Does this costume reduce cultural differences to jokes or stereotypes?

• Wearing a ‘religious’ costume? Does this costume mock or belittle someone’s deeply held faith tradition?

• Could someone take offense with your costume and why?

pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg

Seems reasonable to me.

[NoNamePerson]

Nov 9, 2015 13:41:59 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Nov 9, 2015 13:40:54 GMT -5 swamp said:

thats' offensive to Cinderella.

That's why I go as the witch!

And then I am offended   

[NastyWoman]

Nov 9, 2015 14:09:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Shall we look at the email itself:

... So, if you are planning to dress-up for Halloween, or will be attending any social gatherings planned for the weekend, please ask yourself these questions before deciding upon your costume choice:

• Wearing a funny costume? Is the humor based on “making fun” of real people, human traits or cultures?
Does it matter whether the people I am oking fun at are "my" people?  If so, why should I be the only one allowed to do so?
 
• Wearing a historical costume? If this costume is meant to be historical, does it further misinformation or historical and cultural inaccuracies?
How many pages does the research paper to go with my costume be (single or double spaced)?
 
• Wearing a ‘cultural’ costume? Does this costume reduce cultural differences to jokes or stereotypes?

• Wearing a ‘religious’ costume? Does this costume mock or belittle someone’s deeply held faith tradition?
This one has to be the most fun since being a witch not only could offend Wiccans but also fundamentalist christians and who know who else
 
• Could someone take offense with your costume and why?
There is always someone ready to take offense

There are good points on this list but IMO it has its limitations and maybe the list should also have included a note that states something like: if you think you are offended, stop and think whether you have good reason to believe any offense was intended. 

pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg

Seems reasonable to me.

[billisonboard]

Nov 9, 2015 15:29:04 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Nov 9, 2015 14:09:51 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Shall we look at the email itself:

... So, if you are planning to dress-up for Halloween, or will be attending any social gatherings planned for the weekend, please ask yourself these questions before deciding upon your costume choice:

• Wearing a funny costume? Is the humor based on “making fun” of real people, human traits or cultures?
Does it matter whether the people I am oking fun at are "my" people?  If so, why should I be the only one allowed to do so?
 
• Wearing a historical costume? If this costume is meant to be historical, does it further misinformation or historical and cultural inaccuracies?
How many pages does the research paper to go with my costume be (single or double spaced)?
 
• Wearing a ‘cultural’ costume? Does this costume reduce cultural differences to jokes or stereotypes?

• Wearing a ‘religious’ costume? Does this costume mock or belittle someone’s deeply held faith tradition?
This one has to be the most fun since being a witch not only could offend Wiccans but also fundamentalist christians and who know who else
 
• Could someone take offense with your costume and why?
There is always someone ready to take offense

There are good points on this list but IMO it has its limitations and maybe the list should also have included a note that states something like: if you think you are offended, stop and think whether you have good reason to believe any offense was intended. 

pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg

Seems reasonable to me.

Here is the conclusion to the email:

We are one Yale, and the actions of one affect us all..., so in whatever fashion you choose to participate in Halloween activities, we encourage everyone to be safe and thoughtful during your celebration.

None of the questions they ask be considered end in "and if they do, don't wear it." They ask college students to be "thoughtful". I am confident that there were members of the Yale student community who wore costumes that did offend people, some who were "thoughtful" and then dressed with the conscious intent of offending. If they stayed within a closed part of the community, they were likely cheered. If they stepped out into the larger community, they were likely questioned or shunned.

[billisonboard]

I wanted to note I also support the questioning done by this 'second' email:

I don’t wish to trivialize genuine concerns about cultural and personal representation, and other challenges to our lived experience in a plural community. I know that many decent people have proposed guidelines on Halloween costumes from a spirit of avoiding hurt and offense. I laud those goals, in theory, as most of us do. But in practice, I wonder if we should reflect more transparently, as a community, on the consequences of an institutional (which is to say: bureaucratic and administrative) exercise of implied control over college students.

It seems to me that we can have this discussion of costumes on many levels: we can talk about complex issues of identify, free speech, cultural appropriation, and virtue “signalling.” But I wanted to share my thoughts with you from a totally different angle, as an educator concerned with the developmental stages of childhood and young adulthood. pastebin.com/egSQGfgK

A college campus is a great place for this to be taking place

[Phoenix84]

Nov 9, 2015 10:06:58 GMT -5 Anne_in_VA said:

I agree Swamp!  I think there are too many people telling others what to do.  If you have a problem with someone, tell them!

That's what I think. I don't think the university should be involved at all in what costumes students wear.

Seems like these days everything has to become an institutional issue. What happened to talking thing out like adults?

[billisonboard]

Nov 9, 2015 16:46:44 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

... What happened to talking thing out like adults?

Here are two emails that I think do exactly what you say should be done:
pastebin.com/TLGSdaTg
pastebin.com/egSQGfgK

[beergut]

I thought the reaction from the Yale students towards the college master and his wife was pathetic.

We seem to have generation who think it is a right to not be offended, when no such right exists. 

If you have students who aren't eating, aren't sleeping, aren't going to class after receiving that email, which has been reported, what the hell are these students going to do after they get a negative performance report at work? Kill themselves?

The lack of coping skills from the Yale students is breath-taking. 

[NoNamePerson]

Nov 11, 2015 1:46:05 GMT -5 beergut said:

I thought the reaction from the Yale students towards the college master and his wife was pathetic.

We seem to have generation who think it is a right to not be offended, when no such right exists. 

If you have students who aren't eating, aren't sleeping, aren't going to class after receiving that email, which has been reported, what the hell are these students going to do after they get a negative performance report at work? Kill themselves?

The lack of coping skills from the Yale students is breath-taking. 

Nope they'll go on a killing spree and kill innocent others and say "oh boo hoo" I'm sorry but I had a bad childhood, day or I was constipated and couldn't help myself.

[Shooby]

When did college students turn into little whiny babies who can no longer wipe their own arses? Wow. This country is doomed.

[billisonboard]

Nov 11, 2015 7:26:34 GMT -5 Shooby said:

When did college students turn into little whiny babies who can no longer wipe their own arses? Wow. This country is doomed.

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