Ilinois Mom who watched 3 kids drown fights for new family

[Opti]

What would you do as the judge?

CHICAGO — In horrifying detail, prosecutors described how three children, trapped in the back seat of their mother's car, screamed for help before they drowned in 4 ½ feet of water in an Illinois lake while their mother and her boyfriend escaped unharmed.

Amanda Hamm was convicted of child endangerment and served five years in prison for watching her boyfriend carry out a plot to drown her 6-year-old, 3-year-old and 23-month-old children in 2003 because they interfered with the couple's relationship and his sex-and-drugs lifestyle. He was convicted of first-degree murder and is serving a life sentence.

Now in a bizarre twist, Amanda Ware and her new husband are fighting to gain custody of three children — ages 5, 3 and 1 ½ — she had after leaving prison. They were taken away by child protection authorities last year after a doctor recognized Ware as the former Hamm.

A Cook County judge on Friday will decide whether the children of Amanda and Leo Ware were abused and neglected, even without evidence that they were physically harmed.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/illinois-mom-who-watched-3-kids-drown-fights-for-new-family/ar-CC1mkv?li=BBgzzfc&ocid=iehp

[wvugurl26]

My gut says no way in hell. Legally I don't know that the judge has that option. I feel awful someone has to be put in that position especially if their hands are tied regarding permanently removing the children.

[Tennesseer]

Unless it can be proven the mother and her new husband are abusing her current kids, I don't think there is much the judge can do about it.

[The Captain]

She has absolutely horrible choice in men:

Leo Ware admits to a criminal past as a gang member and drug dealer, but insists he's put that all behind him. He also said his wife deserves a chance to move on.

In 2012, Chicago police responded to a domestic abuse call at the Ware's house after Leo Ware struck his wife. The next year, while she was pregnant, Amanda Ware sought an order of protection, saying she feared for herself and her children because Leo Ware was using crack cocaine and might become violent.

I'd say there's plenty of evidence the children are in a dangerous environment.

No way in hell would I leave the kids with this pair.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

ETA: Changed my answer based on Captain's post.  No way in hell this woman should be put in charge of children.

Unfortunately though that's not how the law works and the system is designed to keep kids with the parents.  If there is no evidence of abuse then the judge is going to have to follow the law and return them.

Sure he could refuse but what good would that do?  Another judge would just overturn it.

If there IS evidence of abuse then the kids should be taken away before she decides they are too much of a bother and drowns them too.

[zibazinski]

Should have been forced to have her tubes tied.

[swamp]

Nov 6, 2015 12:46:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Unless it can be proven the mother and her new husband are abusing her current kids, I don't think there is much the judge can do about it.

yes there is. It's called derivative neglect. If you have lost custody of children previously, you can have a baby removed even if you haven't done anything yet. You are offered parenting/chemical dependency/mental health services with supervised visits. You may get your kids back. Most don't.

[Green Eyed Lady]

The judge might be able to do something about it. The article says something about "anticipatory neglect" and the judge not having to wait till something bad happens to remove the kids. I sure hope he does so sooner than later. It's not only her past - it's her present. Abuse issues, drug issues, cops having to go to the house, retraining orders, possible gang activity.  If he/she has the power, I sure pray he/she doesn't wait to get those kids out of there.

The problem is, then what? Foster homes don't grow on trees and are sometimes no better than where they were removed from. Take those kids out of there, try to find a decent foster home and look at long-term placement/adoption. 

I can't believe she only served 5 years for killing three babies. If she'd been put away for life as she should have been, this would not even be an issue.  I can't believe she was only charged with child endangerment.  We reap what we sow.

[Shooby]

I would use whatever power I had as a Judge to keep those kids safe.  She stood by and let her BF abuse and kill her children. That is not a mother. She should have given her own life to try save them. 

[Tennesseer]

Nov 6, 2015 12:55:49 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 6, 2015 12:46:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Unless it can be proven the mother and her new husband are abusing her current kids, I don't think there is much the judge can do about it.

yes there is. It's called derivative neglect. If you have lost custody of children previously, you can have a baby removed even if you haven't done anything yet. You are offered parenting/chemical dependency/mental health services with supervised visits. You may get your kids back. Most don't.

In this case though, she has not lost custody of her children, and if she has, the linked article does not report it. Now she is responsible for the deaths of her earlier children. But even then, she did not lose custody of them before their deaths.

I can and do appreciate your information in your post. Thanks for the info.

ETA: I do think she and her current husband are a disaster in the making. I would not mind at all the kids being taken away and there only be supervised visits for the next few years until both adults truly get their act together.

[swamp]

Nov 6, 2015 13:01:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 6, 2015 12:55:49 GMT -5 swamp said:

yes there is. It's called derivative neglect. If you have lost custody of children previously, you can have a baby removed even if you haven't done anything yet. You are offered parenting/chemical dependency/mental health services with supervised visits. You may get your kids back. Most don't.

In this case though, she has not lost custody of her children, and if she has, the linked article does not report it. Now she is responsible for the deaths of her earlier children. But even then, she did not lose custody of them before their deaths.

I can and do appreciate your information in your post. Thanks for the info.

going to prison for being involved in the deaths of your previous kids will be enough for a finding of derivative neglect.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 6, 2015 13:02:34 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 6, 2015 13:01:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

In this case though, she has not lost custody of her children, and if she has, the linked article does not report it. Now she is responsible for the deaths of her earlier children. But even then, she did not lose custody of them before their deaths.

I can and do appreciate your information in your post. Thanks for the info.

going to prison for being involved in the deaths of your previous kids will be enough for a finding of derivative neglect.

I am okay with that. I updated the post you quoted. I am all for supervised visits for the next few years for the mother to prove she has gotten her life together and there is zero drama in the home.

[wvugurl26]

Thanks swamp. I was hoping the judge could do something.

[Virgil Showlion]

Nov 6, 2015 13:02:34 GMT -5 swamp said:

Nov 6, 2015 13:01:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

In this case though, she has not lost custody of her children, and if she has, the linked article does not report it. Now she is responsible for the deaths of her earlier children. But even then, she did not lose custody of them before their deaths.

I can and do appreciate your information in your post. Thanks for the info.

going to prison for being involved in the deaths of your previous kids will be enough for a finding of derivative neglect.

The law does something right for once.

[NancysSummerSip]

Amanda Ware was not someone who watched her boyfriend kill those kids. She was a participant:

Prosecutors at that time said she couldn't live without a man so was willing to sacrifice her children. When the couple wanted to move from Clinton, Illinois to St. Louis, Ware asked her mother to take custody of two of the children, but she said she could take only one.

Months later, the couple drove to nearby Clinton Lake, about 150 miles south of Chicago, where on Sept. 2, 2003, LaGrone drove the 1997 Oldsmobile Cutlass down a boat ramp, at some point jumping out with Ware.

Both claimed the deaths were an accident and that they tried but could not get the kids out. Rescuers eventually called by Ware said it took just two minutes to remove the bodies.
news.yahoo.com/illinois-mom-watched-3-kids-drown-fights-family-193616622.html

********************************************
And as for her being worthy of a second chance with husband butthead #2: (from the same story link above)

Amanda Ware would not discuss the case before Friday's hearing, but last year told the Pantagraph newspaper in Bloomington, Illinois, that she would never get over the deaths, "but I have to try to move forward and having a home, a husband and a family is the biggest part of that."

Leo Ware said in a telephone interview that the couple is being targeted unfairly.

"They want to compare me to Maurice LaGrone, but I take that as an insult; these are MY kids," he said. "We raised my kids for three years before they decided it was a problem."

Leo Ware admits to a criminal past as a gang member and drug dealer, but insists he's put that all behind him. He also said his wife deserves a chance to move on.

"We all make bad decisions in life," he said. "This is about moving on."

I hate to disagree with ya there, Prince Charming, but an example of a bad decision might be, oh, I dunno...taking a walk in a thunderstorm while holding a metal umbrella. Or ordering seafood in a place with a sign on the door that says "Discount Sushi." You and your baby-killing honey ho are not examples of people who merely make bad decisions. You two are bad decisions, period. No one's children, not even your own, should be anywhere near you, given your collective pasts.

[TheHaitian]

And here I am unable to have 1 and God grants this lady 6.

[zibazinski]

Nov 6, 2015 16:35:07 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

And here I am unable to have 1 and God grants this lady 6.

I've seen so many parents the same way. Idiots breed like rabbits and good people have problems.  

[wvugurl26]

Nov 6, 2015 16:35:07 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

And here I am unable to have 1 and God grants this lady 6.

It makes me angry when I see these stories for that reason. I know you want a child and I have other friends who have struggled as well to have children. They are all good stable couples. Life is just not fair.

[TheHaitian]

Nov 6, 2015 17:03:42 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

Nov 6, 2015 16:35:07 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

And here I am unable to have 1 and God grants this lady 6.

It makes me angry when I see these stories for that reason. I know you want a child and I have other friends who have struggled as well to have children. They are all good stable couples. Life is just not fair.

Don't I know it!

[MJ2.0]

I could NEVER imagine putting a man before my own flesh and blood like that or harming my child. I can't even understand the thought process.

[taz157]

Nov 6, 2015 20:27:36 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I could NEVER imagine putting a man before my own flesh and blood like that or harming my child. I can't even understand the thought process.

[cronewitch]

I am against reunification if it takes the parents more than 6 months to shape up. These parents have no chance of being good parents so put the kids up for adoption immediately. I hate to see kids given back to bad parents after they don't even remember them. My niece got a new born foster they gave back when he turned two, he doesn't even know his birth mother and my niece has is baby sister. If she lost two to drugs what are the odds of her long term being a good mother? We wouldn't approve her to adopt so why give her a child even if she gave birth to him? No need to let the birth parents interfere with the children at all.