Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Oct 30, 2015 10:25:59 GMT -5
Justice shouldn't discriminate based on economic or social status.
Any argument of the form "The officer should have ... because she's been raised in foster care." is discrimination based on economic or social status.
Q.E.D.
|
|
Jaguar
Administrator
Fear does not stop death. It stops life.
Joined: Dec 20, 2011 6:07:45 GMT -5
Posts: 50,108
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IZlZ65.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Text Color: 290066
|
Post by Jaguar on Oct 30, 2015 10:45:28 GMT -5
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,432
|
Post by grumpyhermit on Oct 30, 2015 11:51:14 GMT -5
And this is where she lost me: If you want to question the right-ness or wrong-ness of the girls actions - fine, but to just go to "self entitled brat" with no sense of contexts is ridiculous. I know the oh so compassionate folks on here don't want to cut her any slack, so this probably resonates. Sorry kid - sometimes parents suck and they abandon you/die. Suck it up and do as you're told. You should really know by now that school is not a safe place for you to to try to defy authority figures. Actually, never try to defy authority figures; it won't end well. The sooner you learn that, the safer you will be. Don't question them. Ever. Also, I thought the girl was 16? The "author" seems determined to push her ever closer to the age of adult hood. Regarding the strike. She struck him after he put hands on her. I am not going to say its right to hit back, and it certainly wasn't wise, but the fact that she did it doesn't really shock me. The only situation he "handled" was the one he escalated.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,345
|
Post by swamp on Oct 30, 2015 12:07:49 GMT -5
Justice shouldn't discriminate based on economic or social status. Any argument of the form "The officer should have ... because she's been raised in foster care." is discrimination based on economic or social status. Q.E.D. You're right, but this incident shouldn't have gotten to the point where the justice system is involved.
Had the cop not smacked her around, she would have been disciplined at school and we never would have heard of this.
Sometimes, kids are assholes, they're kids, they're still learning. Smacking them teaches them to smack people when someone doesn't do as they're told.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 12:37:27 GMT -5
From the link: Now, this man has been terminated due to the trial of public opinion by a lot of people who don’t have all the information and have never had to do his job or one similar to it. Okay, so let us take a look at her background: About Christy Lee Parker (674 Articles) Christy Parker is a Christian conservative wife, mother, writer, and business owner. After almost 20 years in healthcare, she retired from the field to pursue what she felt was her calling. With the support of her husband, Corey Barrow, founder of Mad World News, she successfully started her own business and a rewarding career as an Internet journalist, news commentator, and editor. madworldnews.com/author/hera/ I have taught in public schools including a juvenile lock-up facility, alternative programs, and ran programs in public schools for students with behavior disorders. As she indicates is important, please take that into account when reading what she has to offer as an opinion and what I have posted.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Oct 30, 2015 13:06:38 GMT -5
As I understand it, by the time the security officer arrived, the girl had put the cell phone away. She resisted because she felt the punishment, at that point, was unfair. While that wasn't her decision, she's a kid and that was her feeling at the time. She'd complied; albeit, late. The officer had been called to the scene because the girl was disruptive. Putting away the cell phone, in his eyes, wasn't enough to compensate for the disruption. When she refused to obey his command to leave the classroom, he made the decision to eject her by force. That's the story I'm getting around these parts. While Columbia is in a different part of the state, this incident is being discussed quite a bit here, as well.
The girl's mother had passed away less than a week prior to this incident. Does that fact mitigate the behaviors in any way? To me, yes, it does. I'm a person who has better than average control of my emotions due to the work I did for so many years. Yet, after my late DH passed, I spent over a week locked away to avoid coming into contact with others until I knew I'd be capable of maintaining my decorum. When mother passed, I did pretty much the same thing. If someone had said something that triggered me during that time, the result may well have been a lot less than pretty, and I knew it. This girl is barely out of childhood. She doesn't have the experience, nor the skills, to deal with that kind of emotional turmoil.
In short, this was handled very poorly by all concerned, in my opinion. There was no need for such a petty happening to have come to such a traumatic end. A kid is traumatized, an officer has lost his job, the school children (and staff) are under stress ... just plain ugly, and only because it sounds to me like the adults (school administration, teacher, officer, etc.) were unable to compartmentalize enough to consider before acting. That's a damned shame.
I hope the girl gets some help to deal with her mother's death and her feelings with regard to all this. She really needs someone to talk to who'll listen and guide her through.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 18:22:20 GMT -5
I understand you want a different lesson to have been taught but it wasn't. Then you "understand" incorrectly. It's got nothing to do with what "I" want. So... care to try again?
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 30, 2015 18:33:09 GMT -5
Still waiting for Paul to respond to my question (#176)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 18:35:04 GMT -5
For the record: I think he was "reprimand worthy" excessive... not "terminate his uncontrollable ass" excessive.
AND
None of this would have happened had she not escalated it at EVERY opportunity: She knew the no phone rule. She ignored it. (begin problem, her fault) She was told by the teacher to put the phone away. She ignored it. (escalation) She was confronted by an administrator and told to leave class. She ignored the administrator. (escalation) She was confronted by the SRO, and told to leave class. She ignored him. (escalation) She was told she would be removed if she didn't comply. She didn't comply. (escalation) She was removed per her indirect non-verbal request (her refusal to get out of her seat on her own).
The blame for the whole situation falls squarely on her. Sorry she had a crappy hand dealt to her, but life isn't fair. You (general) don't get to ignore authority just because you are having a crappy day/week/month/year/life.
This is what we teach The 12 Year Old... if you know there's a consequence, and you do that bad thing that you KNOW will get the consequence anyway, you have ASKED for the consequence, by your choice of doing the bad thing... even if you didn't say the words "I want the consequence".
There an old saying "Actions speak louder than words".
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Oct 30, 2015 18:35:14 GMT -5
It makes no difference if she was an orphan, in foster care, on welfare.....whatever. She knew right from wrong. Saying otherwise and giving excuses for her poor behavior is contributing to the problem. Nobody said anything about throwing her out in the streets. People are saying she should be help accountable for her actions.
There are people right here on this board who have had a difficult time growing up. There are people right here on this board who have had other serious trauma in their lives. There are kids from really good homes who misbehave. Right from wrong. She knew it - she admitted it. She needs to be held accountable and that's the bottom line. We don't need to enable these children because all that will accomplish is to raise a crop of completely useless adults. Give her the help she needs - absolutely. But don't give her excuses. I dont' think I said otherwise nor did I excuse her behavior. Just suggesting that she may be a human being dealing with losses at a very early age and not necessarily a spoiled brat who deserves to be thrown across the room.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 19:19:52 GMT -5
I understand you want a different lesson to have been taught but it wasn't. Then you "understand" incorrectly. It's got nothing to do with what "I" want. So... care to try again? I am curious why you think you have the expertise to think you have the answer here. I have indicated mine. You want to share yours?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 19:37:01 GMT -5
Then you "understand" incorrectly. It's got nothing to do with what "I" want. So... care to try again? I am curious why you think you have the expertise to think you have the answer here. I have indicated mine. You want to share yours? There are a few different lessons they could have taken away from this. Some examples are: "Being a brat will not exempt you from consequences of being a brat". "Ignore authority at your own peril" (you never know if you are going to get the "authority person" that's going to 'snap'... do you? While your disobedience won't excuse their actions... isn't it better to not have to worry about them 'snapping' at YOU in the first place?). "There's a right way and a wrong way to question authority. Ignoring things you don't like isn't the right way."
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 19:53:58 GMT -5
I am curious why you think you have the expertise to think you have the answer here. I have indicated mine. You want to share yours? There are a few different lessons they could have taken away from this. Some examples are: "Being a brat will not exempt you from consequences of being a brat". "Ignore authority at your own peril" (you never know if you are going to get the "authority person" that's going to 'snap'... do you? While your disobedience won't excuse their actions... isn't it better to not have to worry about them 'snapping' at YOU in the first place?). "There's a right way and a wrong way to question authority. Ignoring things you don't like isn't the right way." All of those are wonderfully articulated lessons that could be taken from the situation. However, we are talking about high school students.
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Oct 30, 2015 20:00:35 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 20:18:04 GMT -5
There are a few different lessons they could have taken away from this. Some examples are: "Being a brat will not exempt you from consequences of being a brat". "Ignore authority at your own peril" (you never know if you are going to get the "authority person" that's going to 'snap'... do you? While your disobedience won't excuse their actions... isn't it better to not have to worry about them 'snapping' at YOU in the first place?). "There's a right way and a wrong way to question authority. Ignoring things you don't like isn't the right way." All of those are wonderfully articulated lessons that could be taken from the situation. However, we are talking about high school students. According to Value Buy's link... at least 100 students got the lesson (and agreed with it). ETA: Also from that link... The Sheriff (or whatever his title is) apparently doesn't know what happened... because he says "when he threw the student across the room"... but yet, Deputy Fields did no such thing. The video SHOWS that he didn't "throw" her anywhere... much less "across the room".
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 20:22:50 GMT -5
All of those are wonderfully articulated lessons that could be taken from the situation. However, we are talking about high school students. According to Value Buy's link... at least 100 students got the lesson (and agreed with it). Hmmmmm. I read the link. No student discussed what they learned.
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Oct 30, 2015 20:27:19 GMT -5
According to Value Buy's link... at least 100 students got the lesson (and agreed with it). Hmmmmm. I read the link. No student discussed what they learned. No, but they certainly showed how to react to a situation. Getting back to the video. Does anyone find it strange, that you see students sitting between the actual incident and the video person, who are not watching the incident? Especially male students. Some looked like, they wanted no part of this and made a concerted effort to stare at their desks.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 20:31:52 GMT -5
ETA: Also from that link...... because he says "when he threw the student across the room"... ... That is not a quote from the link.
|
|
fishy999
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 9, 2015 20:40:43 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by fishy999 on Oct 30, 2015 20:35:52 GMT -5
All of those are wonderfully articulated lessons that could be taken from the situation. However, we are talking about high school students. According to Value Buy's link... at least 100 students got the lesson (and agreed with it). ETA: Also from that link... The Sheriff (or whatever his title is) apparently doesn't know what happened... because he says "when he threw the student across the room"... but yet, Deputy Fields did no such thing. The video SHOWS that he didn't "throw" her anywhere... much less "across the room". What video are you watching? It is plain as day he tossed her like a sack of potatoes. That's is exactly the reason he was fired because tossing someone is not a proper police technique. Looks like around a 5 foot toss. I guess you are going to start with the semantics again to defend the guy- going to analyze what 'threw' means and all that. Have fun with it- you are still wrong.
|
|
fishy999
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 9, 2015 20:40:43 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by fishy999 on Oct 30, 2015 20:39:57 GMT -5
Hmmmmm. I read the link. No student discussed what they learned. No, but they certainly showed how to react to a situation. Getting back to the video. Does anyone find it strange, that you see students sitting between the actual incident and the video person, who are not watching the incident? Especially male students. Some looked like, they wanted no part of this and made a concerted effort to stare at their desks. Of course they did- they are powerless to do anything and did not want to see it. Most people would turn their heads rather than watch disturbing incidents.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 20:50:34 GMT -5
According to Value Buy's link... at least 100 students got the lesson (and agreed with it). Hmmmmm. I read the link. No student discussed what they learned. It's implied in their support of his actions.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 20:51:02 GMT -5
ETA: Also from that link...... because he says "when he threw the student across the room"... ... That is not a quote from the link. You didn't watch the video... did you? It's in the video. ETA: I will admit that it may be more of a paraphrase than a word-for-word quote though... but the words "threw" and "across the room" are direct quote.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 20:55:16 GMT -5
According to Value Buy's link... at least 100 students got the lesson (and agreed with it). ETA: Also from that link... The Sheriff (or whatever his title is) apparently doesn't know what happened... because he says "when he threw the student across the room"... but yet, Deputy Fields did no such thing. The video SHOWS that he didn't "throw" her anywhere... much less "across the room". What video are you watching? It is plain as day he tossed her like a sack of potatoes. That's is exactly the reason he was fired because tossing someone is not a proper police technique. Looks like around a 5 foot toss. I guess you are going to start with the semantics again to defend the guy- going to analyze what 'threw' means and all that. Have fun with it- you are still wrong. I'm watching the video on the link. And it's "plain as day" that he did no such thing. ETA: The desk fell over backwards as he was trying to remover her from it. That's a far cry from "tossed her like a sack of potatoes"
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 21:01:08 GMT -5
I think the principal did an excellent job in handling the situation. Principal Jeff Temoney told the students none of them would be suspended if they returned to class.
"We've heard your voices, okay," Temoney said. "We appreciate you taking time to do this, but again, as you know, we always focus on teaching and learning, so let's head on back to class."
m.live5news.com/live5news/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:JR2qTK2a Very respectful.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,512
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 30, 2015 21:13:32 GMT -5
That is not a quote from the link. You didn't watch the video... did you? It's in the video. ETA: I will admit that it may be more of a paraphrase than a word-for-word quote though... but the words "threw" and "across the room" are direct quote. "
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 17, 2024 18:05:51 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 21:13:22 GMT -5
Excellent job at diffusing the situation... maybe.
Excellent job at handling the issue? Not so much. But then, handling it properly might have been beyond his powers.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,439
|
Post by thyme4change on Oct 30, 2015 21:50:30 GMT -5
You know those dog shaming pictures where they have signs hanging around their neck stating their recent sins - that is what they should have done. The modern day dunce cap.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 30, 2015 22:36:21 GMT -5
While the video might look bad, at the end of the day, this student refused to comply with the command of an officer of the law. When you do that, you get taken down and arrested. I fail to see what's wrong with that.
What should the cop have done when the student refused to leave? Just say "awww shucks, ok then." And leave?
|
|
fishy999
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 9, 2015 20:40:43 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by fishy999 on Oct 30, 2015 22:38:25 GMT -5
What video are you watching? It is plain as day he tossed her like a sack of potatoes. That's is exactly the reason he was fired because tossing someone is not a proper police technique. Looks like around a 5 foot toss. I guess you are going to start with the semantics again to defend the guy- going to analyze what 'threw' means and all that. Have fun with it- you are still wrong. I'm watching the video on the link. And it's "plain as day" that he did no such thing. ETA: The desk fell over backwards as he was trying to remover her from it. That's a far cry from "tossed her like a sack of potatoes" So I guess we are going to argue about reality now? The officer took her out of the desk and threw her- which at that point he was not in control of the 'suspect'. She landed around 5 feet away- which may or may not be sufficient distance to deserve the term "across the room"- but it happened. He tossed her, he let go and lost control- and he got fired for it. That's the facts jack- so allow me a loaded question- are you blind or ignorant?
|
|
fishy999
Familiar Member
Joined: Aug 9, 2015 20:40:43 GMT -5
Posts: 629
|
Post by fishy999 on Oct 30, 2015 22:46:01 GMT -5
While the video might look bad, at the end of the day, this student refused to comply with the command of an officer of the law. When you do that, you get taken down and arrested. I fail to see what's wrong with that. What should the cop have done when the student refused to leave? Just say "awww shucks, ok then." And leave? Arrest the girl without losing control and tossing her- did anyone at all watch the press conference when he was fired? So many uninformed people with opinions.......Of course you see nothing wrong with it- because a police state appeals to you- square that with your 2nd amendment problems with government. you are pro cop, pro death penalty, yet at the same time you are anti-government, anti-cop. To me people like that are the worst threats to this country today.
|
|