AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 25, 2015 18:49:58 GMT -5
This is from the Slate.com article I linked a few posts up, so consider the source. It’s also unclear that 218 Republicans would be able to rally around a speaker more right-wing than Boehner in a spot speaker’s election. The candidate who’s most discussed as a Boehner replacement is current Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who’s hardly a Tea Partier. Since there isn’t much agency involved in the internally unpopular choices any GOP speaker has to make, McCarthy would have to run the House much as Boehner has: by taking the least bad options available to him. That may be fine with House conservatives, too: They may just want to lop off someone’s head, and it would work well for them to have another “establishment” figure in charge to scapegoat for their natural lack of leverage.Conservatives aren't pragmatists, they're principled. This is wishful thinking. There's going to be a war, and it's already shaping up. www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/25/exclusive-mark-levin-warns-house-republicans-not-support-kevin-mccarthy-speaker/
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 18:53:34 GMT -5
This is from the Slate.com article I linked a few posts up, so consider the source. It’s also unclear that 218 Republicans would be able to rally around a speaker more right-wing than Boehner in a spot speaker’s election. The candidate who’s most discussed as a Boehner replacement is current Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who’s hardly a Tea Partier. Since there isn’t much agency involved in the internally unpopular choices any GOP speaker has to make, McCarthy would have to run the House much as Boehner has: by taking the least bad options available to him. That may be fine with House conservatives, too: They may just want to lop off someone’s head, and it would work well for them to have another “establishment” figure in charge to scapegoat for their natural lack of leverage. Conservatives aren't pragmatists, they're principled. This is wishful thinking. There's going to be a war, and it's already shaping up. www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/25/exclusive-mark-levin-warns-house-republicans-not-support-kevin-mccarthy-speaker/Can you name a few of the principled conservatives elected to a national office, please?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 19:09:41 GMT -5
Goldwater would be considered a liberal in today's Republican Party, the goalposts have moved so far in the last few decades. On another note, we were on a capital tour last year and Boehner walked right by a group I was with on his way to his office, he took the time to say hello to everyone and slowed for those taking pictures, was pretty cool being that close to the person third in line to the presidency. The aide that was giving us our tour said he hadn't seen someone that high level all summer and was really excited. Goldwater was for small government, so if your point is that he would not be typical of the Republican party, then I agree. But he equally would not be typical of liberals today. An old political joke from the 60's. ------They said, '"vote for Goldwater and we will be at war in Vietnam within months of the election", I did and we were. Two of my favorite Goldwater quotes: "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?" "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Pretty sure the rest of the candidates for the GOP today would have screamed liberal at him for those comments. That and his pro choice view.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 19:11:51 GMT -5
Goldwater would be considered a liberal in today's Republican Party, the goalposts have moved so far in the last few decades. On another note, we were on a capital tour last year and Boehner walked right by a group I was with on his way to his office, he took the time to say hello to everyone and slowed for those taking pictures, was pretty cool being that close to the person third in line to the presidency. The aide that was giving us our tour said he hadn't seen someone that high level all summer and was really excited. blah, blah, blah. Go troll the political and media elite's talking points somewhere else. Do you disagree Paul? You responded to me with a talking point. I wish the GOP today had more candidates like Barry.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 19:14:26 GMT -5
Goldwater was for small government, so if your point is that he would not be typical of the Republican party, then I agree. But he equally would not be typical of liberals today. An old political joke from the 60's. ------They said, '"vote for Goldwater and we will be at war in Vietnam within months of the election", I did and we were. Two of my favorite Goldwater quotes: "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?" "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Pretty sure the rest of the candidates for the GOP today would have screamed liberal at him for those comments. That and his pro choice view. Goldwater was liberal in that sense, but what modern liberal is? They have their beliefs that are just as sacred to them as Christianity is to those preachers. I don't think Goldwater would have thought much of them either. I think Goldwater would be more of a libertarian in today's world. It has been a long time since I read any thing by him. eta: Are you a Goldwater fan? I would vote for him.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 25, 2015 19:20:17 GMT -5
Goldwater would be considered a liberal in today's Republican Party, the goalposts have moved so far in the last few decades. On another note, we were on a capital tour last year and Boehner walked right by a group I was with on his way to his office, he took the time to say hello to everyone and slowed for those taking pictures, was pretty cool being that close to the person third in line to the presidency. The aide that was giving us our tour said he hadn't seen someone that high level all summer and was really excited. blah, blah, blah. Go troll the political and media elite's talking points somewhere else. Paul, that's enough. Others have as much right to express their opinions (no matter where you think they got them) as you have to express yours (no matter where others think you got them). You do not tell other posters to go elsewhere. Further posts along these lines will be removed. mmhmm, Politics Moderator
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 19:27:54 GMT -5
Two of my favorite Goldwater quotes: "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?" "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Pretty sure the rest of the candidates for the GOP today would have screamed liberal at him for those comments. That and his pro choice view. Goldwater was liberal in that sense, but what modern liberal is? They have their beliefs that are just as sacred to them as Christianity is to those preachers. I don't think Goldwater would have thought much of them either. I think Goldwater would be more of a libertarian in today's world. It has been a long time since I read any thing by him. eta: Are you a Goldwater fan? I would vote for him. I agree, I don't think he would like either party today and maybe would have been a Libertarian. My grandfather was a big Goldwater fan back in the day so I have been doing some reading, it appears he predicted the extreme polarization of the parties and lack of compromise we see today. I very much agree with his stance on smaller government (there is a point that is too far), strong defense and that he stood up to the religious right with a firm belief in the separation of church and state. He was also willing to compromise. I would be very tempted to vote for a candidate like him today.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 25, 2015 19:46:49 GMT -5
Now if we could get rid of Pelosi and some other dinosaurs.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on Sept 25, 2015 20:08:56 GMT -5
Maybe he has made enough money with his tanning bed investments he doesn't need to work anymore.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Sept 25, 2015 20:37:56 GMT -5
Yay!
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Sept 25, 2015 21:41:46 GMT -5
Now if we could get rid of Pelosi and some other dinosaurs. Back to the topic ........ I'm wondering if this resignation has anything to do with a medical problem he doesn't want to talk about right now. This was my first thought this morning when I heard the news.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 25, 2015 21:46:37 GMT -5
Two of my favorite Goldwater quotes: "I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?" "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Pretty sure the rest of the candidates for the GOP today would have screamed liberal at him for those comments. That and his pro choice view. Goldwater was liberal in that sense, but what modern liberal is? They have their beliefs that are just as sacred to them as Christianity is to those preachers. . any liberal that is that dogmatic is utterly unworthy of the name "liberal". liberals should be reasonable above all other things. our reasonableness gets us in trouble enough.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Sept 25, 2015 21:55:13 GMT -5
I was never a fan of John Boehner, but seeing how happy he was making the announcement made me realize how much pressure he has been under for years. His record isn't very good, but the tea party made his job more difficult.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Sept 26, 2015 1:11:44 GMT -5
Goldwater would be considered a liberal in today's Republican Party, the goalposts have moved so far in the last few decades. On another note, we were on a capital tour last year and Boehner walked right by a group I was with on his way to his office, he took the time to say hello to everyone and slowed for those taking pictures, was pretty cool being that close to the person third in line to the presidency. The aide that was giving us our tour said he hadn't seen someone that high level all summer and was really excited. blah, blah, blah. Go troll the political and media elite's talking points somewhere else. Shame on you...remarks totally inappropriate...interesting post ..don't mind Paul...he's one who is probably doing cart wheels over the resignation...For me..sorry the man is leaving..thanks for the service Mr Speaker...enjoy your retirement...
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Sept 26, 2015 5:44:07 GMT -5
Be interesting to see what he does in the future. I cannot believe he will sit home/just vacation based travel/veg out.
I was surprised when he did NOT tell them all to……….”go stick it where the sun don’t shine “ shortly after the 2014 congressional election. I sure would have. Who needs that aggravation?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Sept 26, 2015 7:53:51 GMT -5
Awesome...now we only have 534 more to go!!
It will be tough, though. I mean, even a one-eyed Harry Reid won't get the f' out of there!!
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kadee79
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Post by kadee79 on Sept 26, 2015 19:50:02 GMT -5
They are saying anyone replacing him will face the same issues.
I wonder, I saw where he had a younger brother die at age 60 I think it was Saturday. Maybe he was sick of fighting all them and wanted out before another stupid government shutdown and seeing a brother die, he might have just said to hell with all this. I certainly would not blame him, he must have been under constant stress. That actually happened back in April this year.
www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/brother-of-house-speaker-boehner-dies-at-age-60/nksf6/
Check the date on the link!
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Sept 27, 2015 5:25:38 GMT -5
Think the poor guy was just WAAAY tired of trying to herd cats. Known as the impossible dream.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 27, 2015 11:51:15 GMT -5
Think the poor guy was just WAAAY tired of trying to herd cats. Known as the impossible dream. he was a terrible speaker, but i am not sure anyone could have done it better. i am comfortable with that Yogi Berra like contradiction.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Sept 27, 2015 12:35:36 GMT -5
Be interesting to see what he does in the future. I cannot believe he will sit home/just vacation based travel/veg out.
I was surprised when he did NOT tell them all to……….”go stick it where the sun don’t shine “ shortly after the 2014 congressional election. I sure would have. Who needs that aggravation? Lobbyist maybe ??
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 12:54:34 GMT -5
My guess is his future is tied up in whatever deal he struck to take the out. I'm guessing establishment said, we can't survive a shutdown, you have to negotiate a budget and yes this will end your career, take one for the team, take the out and in return....
I could be wrong. I guess we'll see.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 27, 2015 13:04:03 GMT -5
link
Unrealistic? False prophets? Spreading noise? Yes to all three, but still kinder than we should be to them.
More correctly they would be called dogmatists, in spite of your never-ending attempt at spin. And as I said on another thread, the more dogmatic anyone is, the easier I find it to dismiss them. The business of government requires far more than devotion to "principle." Particularly so when half of those principles are antithetical to the American ideal of individual liberty. The far-right as a group is wholly unsuited to actual governing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 27, 2015 14:10:20 GMT -5
link
Unrealistic? False prophets? Spreading noise? Yes to all three, but still kinder than we should be to them.
More correctly they would be called dogmatists, in spite of your never-ending attempt at spin. And as I said on another thread, the more dogmatic anyone is, the easier I find it to dismiss them. The business of government requires far more than devotion to "principle." Particularly so when half of those principles are antithetical to the American ideal of individual liberty. The far-right as a group is wholly unsuited to actual governing. this is precisely it. in it's quest for right wing purity, the GOP is making itself capable of ONLY governing via caveat, ala fascism.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 27, 2015 14:25:56 GMT -5
With the added proviso that the social war be elevated to at least the level if not above the military one, the description of fascism fits pretty well.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 27, 2015 15:17:41 GMT -5
With the added proviso that the social war be elevated to at least the level if not above the military one, the description of fascism fits pretty well. have you read "Confounding Fathers", tallguy? it is the best article on the rise of the Tea Party i have seen, and still resonates, even after years since it's publication. i think it was in The Atlantic (magazine)- you should be able to find it on line. a long read, but worth the effort.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 27, 2015 15:49:35 GMT -5
No, I haven't, but I'll look for it. Not today though. Seahawks are on.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 27, 2015 15:53:34 GMT -5
No, I haven't, but I'll look for it. Not today though. Seahawks are on. you will like it. it is basically an article on the pragmatic -vs- the dogmatic right (and the systematic suppression of the latter by the former since the McCarthy Era). the trajectory and ideas of WF Buckley is very important in all of that. the loss of his leadership was really bad for the party.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 27, 2015 15:57:14 GMT -5
Shouldn't that be reversed?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 27, 2015 16:05:57 GMT -5
Shouldn't that be reversed? no. that is the entire point of the article, actually. the last 15 years have been the rise of the dogmatic right over the pragmatic right- the very thing that Buckley fought for 50 years to prevent. the reason i think the article is interesting is that Buckley correctly saw where this would all end up. i am not going to spoil it for you by telling you here. needless to say, i think he is 100% accurate. the intellectual right managed to keep the dogmatic right in check for half a century, but they are now fighting back, and the GOP is, out of practical necessity (survival), letting them.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 27, 2015 16:13:57 GMT -5
Okay, I get it. You are referring to previous suppression of the dogmatists and not to their current rise where they are now running the pragmatists out. I think I misread your meaning before.
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