Question regarding Obama / Iraq..could we have stayed ..

[deziloooooo]

There was a column in local paper today...Sun Sentinal..out of Ft lauderdale..anti Obama which is fine...

In this one the author was criticizing and blaming Obama for the ISIS mess and our losing Iraq because he , Obama, pulled our troops out of the country..

Now in thinking back..and I can stand  being corrected..I do remember negotiations being done between we and Malecki..the new PM...Malecki, Iraque , were insisting that our troops would be under Iraque law...meaning any law breaking troops would be tried in Iraque courts..subject to penalties issued by Iraque justice .

I don't believe we allow that were ever we have troops stationed..

Anyway..we were not given any choice in the matter..Malecki,from what I remember.. the Iraquis , did not give us permission to stay after our time was up...from what I remember..Since we were telling all that we would treat  Iraq as a soverign free country when it came time to leave I don't see how we could have stayed past our welcome there unless we forced ourselves on the country ..basically as a conquering country..

I have seen that argument about Obama  / Iraq before...but still don't see how we could have stayed except by force beyond out time line..Anyone??

[happyhoix]

I've also heard the opinion that Obama should not have pulled out of Iraq, but Malecki wanted us out.

I guess we could have negotiated a settlement with them that allowed us to keep troops there, like we did following WWII when we kept troops in Germany, except that, if Iraq insisted our soldiers had to comply with their laws, that would have been a problem.

I don't know that there WAS a good way out of this. Obama pulled out our troops to avoid having more troops killed and to stop the financial bleeding we experienced in paying for that war. If we stayed, we would have continued to have our troops killed and continued to spend a shit load of money there, and I don't think we can assume that our presence would have single handedly prevented ISIS from emerging.

I do think, though, that we should have helped Syria more. That country descending into chaos has really opened the door for ISIS and also caused a massive refugee problem. If we had stepped in to help take out the old regime when they started gassing their civilians it might have avoided the civil breakdown - or it might have just made society break down that much faster.

The hawks will always insist that we should have acted stronger and faster. But it was the hawks that got us sucked into Iraq in the first place, so I don't really put much trust in their crystal ball viewing abilities. Hard to say what might have happened.

[mroped]

The withdraw of the troops out of Iraq has been established in 2008 by the Bush administration so all Obama did was stick with the schedule.
In fact he went above the requirements of the withdrawal and equipped Iraqi troops as to be able to face anything. When ISIS rose, the Iraqi troops just hightailed from in face of a fight. Are holding our president or troops guilty of the cowardice of others now?

We should have never been in Iraq, we had no business to. In some ways we started the chain reaction that lead to the creation of ISIS.
If we were to stay there longer it still would've happen- ISIS I mean- they were just waiting for us to draw out.
As for Syria, we should've never interfered as an individual power. All action should be taken through UN. Doing it as U.S. draws more hate towards us from people that don't like us much to begin with.
On one hand they cheer us for intervening and stoping the mass killing but on the other hand there are those that yell "it is not your business, stay out!"
who do we listen to?

Across the world it is a well known fact that US troops would enter any country where they can take something out of it. Nobody believes that we might do it out of humanitarian reasons. All believe that we just wanna take over.

Are they right or wrong?

[mroped]

It does not have to be to the benefit of the country as a whole!
Ie:
Iraq- lower oil prices for the oil companies- did not translate in lower gas prices at the pump but in bigger profits for the oil companies. Check their profits postings between 2004- 2008 and you'll figure it out.
- the defense contractors posted high profits 
- new toys get to be tested - weaponry and such
- the whole idea of "reconstruction" of Iraq was awarded with no bidding to Haliburton( who has major interests in Haliburton I wonder? ) all other were excluded as " not being US based corporations!"

Afganistan is a place where we should've went stronger in, catch the SOB, put him out of his misery and be over it, get on with our lives!

Former Yougoslavia is the only place that we went in on "humanitarian reasons" but that was late in the conflict and the decision was made as to save face. We still got to try the B2 bombers though!

Korea and Vietnam were caused by our continuous competition with the Russians.
All respect and gratitude to those that fought those two wars but soldiers follow orders, they don't make decisions.
Still got to test some weaponry- M16 and that's when we first used helicopters in combat and military planes with jet propulsion. Napalm bombs too- we must've had an overstock that HAD to be used!

If a country is independent and sovereign, we have no rights to tell them what kind of governing form they should adopt. I bet that the American people wouldn't be very keen to the idea of being told by the Japanese that we should have a monarch " descending from a long bloodline related to the Gods" and a prime minister whom can unilaterally decide what's good and what's not. Would we?

Beside Yougoslavia, the only place that I can think of that the U.S. Was involved in and I completly agree that was humanitarian was Somalia! 
And what we devote to that? A few months and limited funding. Compared to places like Iraq, Panama, that is a drop in the bucket, neglijable. And those two- Somalia, Yougoslavia- are the places where we were needed the most!

[djAdvocate]

Sept 9, 2015 22:49:28 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

There was a column in local paper today...Sun Sentinal..out of Ft lauderdale..anti Obama which is fine...

In this one the author was criticizing and blaming Obama for the ISIS mess and our losing Iraq because he , Obama, pulled our troops out of the country..

Now in thinking back..and I can stand  being corrected..I do remember negotiations being done between we and Malecki..the new PM...Malecki, Iraque , were insisting that our troops would be under Iraque law...meaning any law breaking troops would be tried in Iraque courts..subject to penalties issued by Iraque justice .

I don't believe we allow that were ever we have troops stationed..

Anyway..we were not given any choice in the matter..Malecki,from what I remember.. the Iraquis , did not give us permission to stay after our time was up...from what I remember..Since we were telling all that we would treat  Iraq as a soverign free country when it came time to leave I don't see how we could have stayed past our welcome there unless we forced ourselves on the country ..basically as a conquering country..

I have seen that argument about Obama  / Iraq before...but still don't see how we could have stayed except by force beyond out time line..Anyone??

as many others have pointed out, Bush also planned to withdraw from Iraq.  so did McCain.  in other words, any president in the WH in 2009 would have done the same thing.  so is Obama responsible?  sure.  however, he is not responsible for firing the Iraqi Army, which is now the core personnel of ISIS.  that was Bremer's doing.  so, let's be clear- NO president would have done any different than Obama did in Iraq.  the cast was set.  the situation was fu*&ked up by Bush and Company, and this was the invariant conclusion, imo.

[djAdvocate]

also keep in mind what the alternative was: permanent occupation.

was that really a better idea?

[deziloooooo]

Kudos and many   for well thought out responses by all...Am impressed and encouraged by the thought put into them...Naturally I agree with all thoughts presented..